Aspen Wilde 31370 Report post Posted March 27, 2012 Well that's sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybob 20128 Report post Posted March 27, 2012 I think this person should be disqualified. I respect all individuals to live their lives the way they want to, I realize transgender people have it much harder in their day to day lives than most people. However, if we allow this where does it end? For example, what about Olympic competitions, it's easy to say a young attractive transgender woman can compete in a beauty contest, but what about an athletic competition? So a person who was born male identifies as a woman, this person is 6 feet tall and weighs about 180 lbs, maybe not your most attractive "woman" but this person identifies as a woman, fair? What rules do we put around this? Can a person who was born male, identifies as a woman, but still has a penis, compete in female competitions? I don't think it is so cut and dried as some people make it. I know this is probably not the most popular stance to take here but it is how I feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nebbah1973 350 Report post Posted March 27, 2012 However, if we allow this where does it end? If we're lucky, it doesn't end. Progress of any sort doesn't happen unless envelopes are pushed and status quos are challenged. You can argue that opening the rules of a beauty pageant are hardly progress... and I would agree. However, I think any discussion on gender definitions and the fuzzy area between them and drives a greater desire to understand is positive in my book. It may seem a poor comparison, but when same sex marriage was being debated, the whole "where does it end" argument was front and centre. What next? Polygamy? etc. That turned out alright.. and even if it does drive discussion about polygamy or whatever... so what? Let's talk about it. For example, what about Olympic competitions, it's easy to say a young attractive transgender woman can compete in a beauty contest, but what about an athletic competition? So a person who was born male identifies as a woman, this person is 6 feet tall and weighs about 180 lbs, maybe not your most attractive "woman" but this person identifies as a woman, fair? Given that athletic competitions serve approximately the same use to society as beauty pageants (read: none), I don't have a problem with it. Well, I don't have a problem with anything that drives a conversation and forces us to look at anything in a new light. You make good points with regarding the athletic stuff, but I think that if it truly becomes an issue in the future then the governing bodies of whatever sport we're talking about can debate it and decide... again furthering the discussion. I guess it helps that sports generally have a women's and men's competition (ok, maybe not synchro swimming...unless that SCTV sketch counts). There's no male Miss Universe (well, that I know of, anyway... we tend to be able to make ourselves look foolish without pageant organizers to help us!) I do take your meaning, though. Much easier for a 6", 180 lb penis-having woman to win at many sports against her vagina-having opponent... depending on the sport, of course. So I certainly don't disagree with you there. What rules do we put around this? Can a person who was born male, identifies as a woman, but still has a penis, compete in female competitions? I don't think it is so cut and dried as some people make it. What rules need to be put around it? I don't know the answer but I do believe that whatever discussion comes from it is good. I know this is probably not the most popular stance to take here but it is how I feel. All good stuff, for sure. I can respect a 0.02 as much as the next guy and I think your opinion is valid and worthy of some discussion. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it. Cheers and thanks for sharing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cat 262460 Report post Posted March 27, 2012 Trying to define what makes a person's sex is like trying to define when a fetus becomes a life. There is no definitive answer. Where does it end? I don't care! In reality there is no end. Continuing to try and put people in neat little boxes doesn't work; never has worked and never will work.This kind of discrimination supports and promotes stereotypes and of all the people in this world, the members of this board should realize that stereotypes are unicorns; mythical beasts that don't exist. Coming from the land where tiara triumphs reign supreme, I find this insane. IT'S A BEAUTY CONTEST FFS!!!! She is a stunner regardless of what gentalia she was born with and I'd buy her dinner in a heartbeat... cat 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TGirl-Kay 7485 Report post Posted March 27, 2012 Billybob, trans women can and do compete in womens sporting events. Typically you have to have been on hormone replacment therapy for a set lenght of time and have had gender reasignment surgery. When I transitioned I lost about 35% of my upper body strength due to hormone therapy, I'm no stronger now than any other woman of my height weight and fitness level. I've played on female only teams and don't seem to have any special advantage. I'm not crazy about beauty contests, but I do think that it stinks that this young woman was kicked out for haveing been born trans. Honestly a woman is a woman regardless of her history. Kay, who's a woman with a past. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamanthaEvans 166767 Report post Posted March 28, 2012 I'm not crazy about beauty contests, either, but I don't think that this woman should have been disqualified. I also don't think that she lied when she claimed to be a "naturally born woman." She sees herself as female. She lives her whole life as a woman, 24/7. And Cat, if you get a dinner date with her, I want to come along, too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etasman2000 15994 Report post Posted March 29, 2012 And Cat, if you get a dinner date with her, I want to come along, too! Too late ladies. Take a number :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zorobaby 4121 Report post Posted March 29, 2012 The argument can be made on both sides of the fence on this one... unfortunately this young lady had to make the first step and have her life be harder for the chance that someone else's might be enriched by her actions later in life. I hope for everyones sake that the beauty pageant coordinators learn to accept trans as an acceptable woman form and can allow them to compete, and not just in a separate category (like what is probably going to be suggested in the future) but with all the other young women :) Zoro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sexy_LanaMegane 2288 Report post Posted March 29, 2012 I'm not crazy about beauty contests, either, but I don't think that this woman should have been disqualified. I also don't think that she lied when she claimed to be a "naturally born woman." She sees herself as female. She lives her whole life as a woman, 24/7. And Cat, if you get a dinner date with her, I want to come along, too! As SamanthaEvans, I don't think she should have been disqualified because of that matter. I won't go for dinner with her, but it doesn't change the fact that intuition and feeling are very strong things. How people would like to make her feel is not important. I guess she is really well placed to know what she realy is and how she feels. Absolutely no one can change that. Not to mention the health risk these people go through while taking these hormones for years. I'm not an expert in this kind of matter, but it is not hard to know that a complete sex change can't be a coincidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennidikummings 9755 Report post Posted April 12, 2012 Just cause you had a sex change DOES not make you a woman. It's miss america not mr america..The girls entered originally were honest about themselves, and hello trump owns this just cause he allowed her back mean he will have her out some other way. I am not against sex changes and how you want to live your life, I just don't think someone who artificially became a woman should not have the same right to enter a female pagent! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest S**a*Q Report post Posted April 12, 2012 You don't just artificially become a woman. Transgendered are women inside, just born with the wrong parts. (Or vice versa with men) They don't just wake up and say, I'm gonna turn my dick into a vagina today. I have a friend with a transgendered kid. At 3, this little boy knew he was a girl, now at 9 is still living as a girl and is more a girl than I'll ever be... Even though she still has a penis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
castle 38816 Report post Posted April 12, 2012 I'm not gonna let my personal feelings decide this topic for me...instead I'll be really technical about it. Whether or not she should have been disqualified all depends on the paperwork (point finale!). If the entry form she filled out simply asks her if she's a female and she checked off "yes", then she did NOT lie and she should be allowed to participate. For all intents and purposes she is now a female...however if the form asks "Were you BORN a female?" and she checked off "yes"....well then that's a different ball game altogether (no pun intended). Flat out lying on any entry form should be definite grounds for disqualification. If the Terms and Conditions of this contest make no mention of transgendered persons than I do not see how they can legally disqualify her...however if the Terms and Conditions of the contest DO state that transgendered people cannot participate than she simply needs to suck it up and accept it....for now. This is not to say that I do not think she should fight to have that policy changed....if there is such a policy in place I do think it should be changed. But if it is CURRENTLY a policy and it is presently written down in black and white than that's that. You can't fight the fine print. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etasman2000 15994 Report post Posted April 13, 2012 If the entry form she filled out simply asks her if she's a female and she checked off "yes", then she did NOT lie and she should be allowed to participate. For all intents and purposes she is now a female...however if the form asks "Were you BORN a female?" and she checked off "yes"....well then that's a different ball game altogether (no pun intended). Flat out lying on any entry form should be definite grounds for disqualification. That would cause a different set of problems. "Were you BORN a female" refers solely to the physical sexual organs someone is born with which may not be who they are today. With that question organizers would have to accept Female-2-Male contestants which I doubt is the intent either. There is also semantic issues to address as there is a distinction between Sex and Gender although society tend to lump both together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted May 20, 2012 CTV reports, 19 May 2012: http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120519/miss-universe-canada-120519/20120519?hub=TorontoNewHome Transgender Miss Universe Canada contestant Jenna Talackova was eliminated from the pageant after making it to the final 12 finalists. Talackova's name was not among those called when the final five contestants were announced at Saturday night's pageant. The 23-year-old Vancouver native, who was initially eliminated from the Miss Universe Canada contest because she was born a male, made history as the first transgender female to compete for the title. Talackova competed against 61 other women... Members of Saturday's panel of judges ... said they would not be swayed by the attention surrounding Talackova. "Maybe there will always be a sense of bias to a limited extent," judge Karim Kanji told CTV Toronto before the pageant got underway, but insisted all contestants would be treated fairly. The evening gown and swimsuit portions of the Miss Universe Canada competition took place on Thursday, but Talackova did not win any of the smaller prizes that would have automatically bumped her to Saturday night's final round. Saturday's winner will compete for the international Miss Universe crown in December. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBWlinda 100 Report post Posted May 20, 2012 I cant believe she was disqualifed! she did surgery so shes not a men anymore .She is so pretty and she looks asian which is a plus for me.:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
