Fur

[SamanthaEvans 166767]

I'll admit to being a hypocrite.

 

I'm a major animal lover. Animals are frequently the subjects of my artwork and I've always lived with cats, dogs and birds.

 

I also eat meat. I wear shoes and belts and I carry leather handbags. I've had a couple of wonderful leather jackets at different times. I wore a gorgeous full length mink coat for awhile--a gift from a man to whom I was engaged at the time and which I returned when I decided to break the engagement. My dressiest coat these days has fox fur trim.

 

I'm more than a little ambivalent about fur, though. I don't expect to wear mink ever again. Or any "farmed" animal, for that matter. There's really not much reason to wear a fur coat in Vancouver: it's rarely very cold for long. But if I lived somewhere that had cold, snowy winters, I wouldn't rule out wearing fur if the animal had been hunted or trapped for the reasons Lee Richards has noted. I'm also conscious of the Aboriginal fur trade and don't object to it. So, I could see myself wearing badger, beaver or fox. They're wonderfully warm and a good fur coat lasts a very long time.

 

I wear silk, too. I don't think there is a humane way to harvest silk, but I'm much less anthropomorphic about worms than about mammals.

 

I wear cotton, but less than I once did since learning about the environmental damage cotton farming causes and the health damage workers often receive, in addition to being extremely poorly paid for their labour.

 

I wear wool, a lot, but it comes from animals that I expect are well-treated. The animals don't have to die to give up the fur, which is a relief.

 

I don't wear polyester though, unless I can't avoid it (I haven't been able to find a bra that wasn't mostly polyester, for example). It's a petroleum product and I've been trying for years to reduce the petroleum products, including polyester and plastics, that I use. I think that petroleum products are just bad for us and our world. But I'm pretty hypocritical about this, too. I do drive, after all.

[Phaedrus 209521]

I don't have to prove to you that it happens,I know what I have seen.

 

Well... it depends why you're posting. If you simply wish to vent, then no, you don't have to prove anything. But if you wish to persuade others toward your point of view, the provision of evidence to substantiate your assertions is... useful.

 

I'll admit to being a hypocrite.

 

So would almost all of us, if we were honest. I've met a lot of folks who claim to care about animal welfare to a greater or lesser extent, but only one who cared enough to find an alternative to leather shoes, and never any who forswore medicines that had been tested on animals.

 

I wear silk, too. I don't think there is a humane way to harvest silk, but I'm much less anthropomorphic about worms than about mammals.

 

Actually, that's probably justified. I don't claim to be an expert on neurobiology, but by understanding is that insects simply don't feel pain in the same way that mammals do because their nervous system is far less complex and isn't capable of it.

 

And even then, I have no idea what kind of a nervous system - if any - an insect has while it's pupating and having the entire fabric of its being rearranged (which is the stage at which silkworms are harvested).

[castle 38816]

I personally have had my fair share of leather jackets, leather trench coats, even a few pairs of leather pants....which all looks totally sexy on me if I do say so myself ;) so it would be hypocritical of me to be morally opposed to fur. But personally I just think fur just looks like ass more often than not.

 

I've always found it looked more like someone trying to show off their wealth and social status and not really wearing it because they thought it looked nice. I once worked in storage in a fur store and the majority of the client base (with the odd exception) were the snooty, nose-in-the-air, upper crust types. So as a result now when I see someone wearing fur that's my immediate first impression of them.

[Athos 108589]

It's not my intention to offend anyone, but I fully support the fur trade.

 

Of course, I also love animals, am a part-time nature photographer and believe we need to vigorously protect our wild areas.

 

I am opposed to the inhumane treatment of animals, and the mistreatment of farmed animals, whether it be mink or chickens should be prosecuted. I also do think there are lots of misconceptions. This is a political hot potato and both sides are prone to hyperbole and occasional mistruths.

 

Here in NL the European boycott on fur products has devastated the seal industry and those who rely on it. I love seal products and have a pair of sealskin boots. Wish I could afford a jacket. The stuff you hear said about the seal hunt, though, is often a complete load of BS. In NL, as well, those seals also go into the cook pot, so they get eaten as well.

 

Additional Comments:

So, curious about the claims of animals being skinned alive I googled this. All of the reports of this happening seem to come from China. If this is true, then the solution would be for a boycott of fur products from China, rather than attacking all fur. I couldn't find any reports of this happening in NA, but would be interested if others are aware of them.

[Katherine of Halifax 113932]

My mother always owned and still does own fur coats in different styles and lengths. I remember being a child and dreaming of owning one of those coats. I even had thoughts that she would leave them to me in her will, in fact my sister and I often fought over them.

 

How times have changed for me. It makes me feel so sad to even think of what the poor little animals had to go though to get those coats made. I am not fullly aware of how the animals are killed but I do know of the small cages and filth they live in. No breating creature of the universe should have to go through that.

 

Of course eveyone chooses what they would like to do but I say no to fur and taking innocent animals lives for our vanity and enjoyment.

 

On the other side I enjoy leather so am I any better?

[cometman 35115]

It's not my intention to offend anyone, but I fully support the fur trade.

 

Of course, I also love animals, am a part-time nature photographer and believe we need to vigorously protect our wild areas.

 

I am opposed to the inhumane treatment of animals, and the mistreatment of farmed animals, whether it be mink or chickens should be prosecuted. I also do think there are lots of misconceptions. This is a political hot potato and both sides are prone to hyperbole and occasional mistruths.

 

Here in NL the European boycott on fur products has devastated the seal industry and those who rely on it. I love seal products and have a pair of sealskin boots. Wish I could afford a jacket. The stuff you hear said about the seal hunt, though, is often a complete load of BS. In NL, as well, those seals also go into the cook pot, so they get eaten as well.

 

Additional Comments:

So, curious about the claims of animals being skinned alive I googled this. All of the reports of this happening seem to come from China. If this is true, then the solution would be for a boycott of fur products from China, rather than attacking all fur. I couldn't find any reports of this happening in NA, but would be interested if others are aware of them.

 

It doesn't happen in NA except in isolated incidents which, if discovered, are widely publicized and soundly condemned- as they absolutely should be . The video I think Cristy is referring to disgusted me as well and involved either dogs or foxes in Asia.

[roamingguy 300292]

Personaly I see no difference in wearing leather, or fur. I have a leather jacket, a couple pair of leather shoes, and I have fur (badger) hat (which is nice to wear for ice fishing)

I am also a animal lover, and over the course of quite a few years I have saved four cats, the latest one being adopted as a feral kitten, given a good home instead of being put back out in the colony...only problem, I have to put up with him LOL

Without knowing the intracacies of trapping, at least in Ontario, like hunting and fishing, it is governed by regulations including proper training and licensing of trappers, limits on what can be trapped and probably certain seasons to trap.

I do think there is an element of furry animals being seen as soft and cuddly, and thus getting sympathy

But other animal/life species not looking so soft and cuddly don't get the same sympathy. For example, killing of alligators, and using their skin used to make alligator leather jackets, or boots. But gators aren't cute and cuddly so not the same concern shown. What if the furry animal was a rat, any concern then?

And who is to say furry animals aren't also used for food

As long as animals are harvested in a legal, ethical and humane fashion I have no issues be it a fur bearing animal or non fur bearing animal

A rambling from someone who doesn't trap or hunt...but I do fish, and occasionaly keep one or two for the frying pan

RG

[CristyCurves 169032]

It's not my intention to offend anyone, but I fully support the fur trade.

 

Of course, I also love animals, am a part-time nature photographer and believe we need to vigorously protect our wild areas.

 

I am opposed to the inhumane treatment of animals, and the mistreatment of farmed animals, whether it be mink or chickens should be prosecuted. I also do think there are lots of misconceptions. This is a political hot potato and both sides are prone to hyperbole and occasional mistruths.

 

Here in NL the European boycott on fur products has devastated the seal industry and those who rely on it. I love seal products and have a pair of sealskin boots. Wish I could afford a jacket. The stuff you hear said about the seal hunt, though, is often a complete load of BS. In NL, as well, those seals also go into the cook pot, so they get eaten as well.

 

Additional Comments:

So, curious about the claims of animals being skinned alive I googled this. All of the reports of this happening seem to come from China. If this is true, then the solution would be for a boycott of fur products from China, rather than attacking all fur. I couldn't find any reports of this happening in NA, but would be interested if others are aware of them.

 

Firstly,for me to name names would start a whole different ball game and for now I don't feel the need to line a lawyers pockets to prove to a couple of cerbies what I have or haven't seen,secondly,to phaedrus post,I never post anything just to "rant",thats not me,but to talk about the the misuse,cruel treatment of animals is me and it happens in all the "animal" trades,it's not the rule,but when it comes to making money these businesses will not forgo it to save suffering.In NorthAmerica,the Maritimes,throughout Canada animals pelts have been taken while the animal was still alive,I didn't state it was their regular practice but it happens and my point was other than for vanity reasons what is the point of the fur trade now?NONE, if people can only survive through the misery of other beings is that then really surviving?In this day and age, with all we know I think we can do better,and to address the seal harvest I think most get upset about how they are killed,really is bashing something over the head multiple times really necessary,why not shoot them,oh I know why,because it would cost more!I am a person that believes if something has to die then it should with some kind of dignity and should not have to suffer, just to satisfy our wims.It is not hard to be humane in this day and age,a little more expensive maybe but doable,if you eat meat buy organic,from a local grower most respect their animals ,feed and house them properly,if you want to wear fur go out and shoot then skin the animal yourself!!!!

[Guest S**a*Q]

I think fur is a business, just like my vagina is. There are tons of people that would jump at the chance to tell me that selling my vag is wrong... That is just their opinion as I disagree. Men could just jerk off instead of finding us, but they don't. Supply and demand. :)

 

Also,to the "if u wanna wear fur, do it yourself..." Sure... Ill get right on that, as soon as I get a license, a rifle, the ability to skin and animal and then the talent to make a jacket after tanning said fur... I think not... I'll just buy me a coat someone made for me, all while supporting their trade.

 

I

[Guest S**a*Q]

I think the reason Christy and I disagree is because she likes animals, whereas I couldn't care less. I don't see them as pets, Animals clothe and feed me, that is all. :)

[billybob 20128]

CC if you were as concerned about animals as you say, you would holler as loud as you could the names and addresses of these places that "skin animals alive".

To say you're concerned about lawyers is a copout, you can't get sued for telling the truth.

[Athos 108589]

CC if you were as concerned about animals as you say, you would holler as loud as you could the names and addresses of these places that "skin animals alive".

To say you're concerned about lawyers is a copout, you can't get sued for telling the truth.

 

Well, actually you can .... It's just you'll eventually win!

[Guest]

Skinning an animal yourself would be out of the normal. It is a little more complicated than shooting an animal in the head, omg. I would have to agree with killing an animal with as little pain as possible is the best way to do it. I do not have concrete proof of how industries harm or abuse their animals but I'm sure it happens. Along with great industries that follow the code or rules. I would support those companies in trying to do what is right.

 

I support smaller companies because they have more concern about their products. Irregardless if it is a candle or live stock, just my opinion. There for I support organic food, although it is hard to find sometimes.

 

I eat meat, I wear leather but I do not agree with animal abuse.

 

It makes you think a little bit more before you buy products. It is up to us to support what we believe in. Maybe doing some research before you shop is the best way to insure you are standing for what you believe in and getting what you want.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I think the reason Christy and I disagree is because she likes animals, whereas I couldn't care less. I don't see them as pets, Animals clothe and feed me, that is all. :)

 

Well not necessarily,I don't see all animals as "pets", but definietly as beings with feelings just like you and I,some may refer to that as compassion,yes some of us have it some don't, when I get cut I bleed and it hurts,when they(animals) get cut they bleed and it hurts them to ,so I care,again ,compassion!

To the all knowing billy bob,naming names would get me sued,and yes I might win,at a cost of 10-20,000 or more-which I'm sorry I don't have ,just to retain a lawyer is about 3000-3500.If you are willing to cover the costs I will happily post names and addresses.Proving someone is guilty is a long,very expensive process,there was a pig farm in the states that was taken to court,they had vast undercover footage of the inhumane treatment of their pigs,how they used to hang them when they were done with them ,the suffering the sows went through whilst pregnant,it was horrific,these people were really sick,yet they were found not guilty,these types of cases are hard to win,I could go on and on,but why?To satisfy you?

[Guest **cely***r***ne]

Are some things better left unsaid? Probably, but sometimes we all have our own opinions, likes and dislikes. That is what makes us human.

 

I dont understand the seemingly heated debate here...

I do not agree with animal abuse either...they cannot cry for help. Nor have they asked to be farmed for their fur....

 

My mom grew up on a pig farm. After slaughter, they were hung upside down to drain the blood for butchering. How many of us eat bacon...pork...etc. In some places thats how they do it. It may be wrong for some..but when I skin and gut a deer, I hang it upside down...(After I go with friends, family to hunt, I say a prayer thanking the animal for sacrificing itself to me for me to be able to feed my family.)

 

Alot has changed within the decades...where animals were thought of as tools for us humans to utilize for food, clothing,the trade and income.wasnt it part of a system back in the day? No i do not agree with farming the critters just for their fur..to me that is wrong...I am not a member of PETA or a spokesperson for one...is anyone else here? Again, if you can OP please do direct us to somewhere where maybe we can help? Like the WWF to save endangered species...is this included there as well?

 

The way I see it, and have said before to each their own. Thats what makes the world go round. Really this is something out of our control...just like alot of things..so why take it any further? It would take an army of people to put a stop to it...if at all possible... where in canada do we find such inhumane ways of treating animals in this specific way? All I have found are wild life parks and private zoos where they take in abused animals...The problem is just too big...and has been going on for way to long...before we were born for sure.

 

O.P. I know you have positive intentions on this thread...kudos for being a caring person!! And Im sure it is not meant to be taken badly...Im sure my post will raise an eyebrow or two...but It is afterall just my opinion on something that seems to be getting heated...Let us find something positive to talk about...Like Easter Bunnies! Oh no wait...they may be farmed for their feet. How about Turtles? Oh turtle soup... maybe sharks...fin soup...my point...it is everywhere especially not in NA and no where where we can help directly...and we cannot save the world :( sadly.

 

I am sorry if I have upset or offended anyone...but I just wish we could all find things to talk about that wont end up in a argument, or picking at eachother.....

 

Hijack!....(sorry) But who is painting eggs this weekend? Thank you to the chicken to laid the eggs for me to paint for my neices and nephews!!

[CristyCurves 169032]

Are some things better left unsaid? Probably, but sometimes we all have our own opinions, likes and dislikes. That is what makes us human.

 

I dont understand the seemingly heated debate here...

I do not agree with animal abuse either...they cannot cry for help. Nor have they asked to be farmed for their fur....

 

My mom grew up on a pig farm. After slaughter, they were hung upside down to drain the blood for butchering. How many of us eat bacon...pork...etc. In some places thats how they do it. It may be wrong for some..but when I skin and gut a deer, I hang it upside down...(After I go with friends, family to hunt, I say a prayer thanking the animal for sacrificing itself to me for me to be able to feed my family.)

 

Alot has changed within the decades...where animals were thought of as tools for us humans to utilize for food, clothing,the trade and income.wasnt it part of a system back in the day? No i do not agree with farming the critters just for their fur..to me that is wrong...I am not a member of PETA or a spokesperson for one...is anyone else here? Again, if you can OP please do direct us to somewhere where maybe we can help? Like the WWF to save endangered species...is this included there as well?

 

The way I see it, and have said before to each their own. Thats what makes the world go round. Really this is something out of our control...just like alot of things..so why take it any further? It would take an army of people to put a stop to it...if at all possible... where in canada do we find such inhumane ways of treating animals in this specific way? All I have found are wild life parks and private zoos where they take in abused animals...The problem is just too big...and has been going on for way to long...before we were born for sure.

 

O.P. I know you have positive intentions on this thread...kudos for being a caring person!! And Im sure it is not meant to be taken badly...Im sure my post will raise an eyebrow or two...but It is afterall just my opinion on something that seems to be getting heated...Let us find something positive to talk about...Like Easter Bunnies! Oh no wait...they may be farmed for their feet. How about Turtles? Oh turtle soup... maybe sharks...fin soup...my point...it is everywhere especially not in NA and no where where we can help directly...and we cannot save the world :( sadly.

 

I am sorry if I have upset or offended anyone...but I just wish we could all find things to talk about that wont end up in a argument, or picking at eachother.....

 

Hijack!....(sorry) But who is painting eggs this weekend? Thank you to the chicken to laid the eggs for me to paint for my neices and nephews!!

I don't think it's getting heated , just alot of different strong views and opinions.I'm just a little annoyed at "someone" calling me out unfairly,I think yours and others points made are valid and you have the right to make them,my stance is a strong one,not for everyone ,in saying that,I agree that to each their own,by the way when I mentioned hanging pigs ,these people hung them by the neck to kill them not to drain the blood,which is normal practice after slaughtering,as I said before, if something has to die it should with dignity,quickly, and without suffering .Thanks for your input.If all discussions were only made where we all agreed what would be the point,how boring,and disagreements can be made,as long as they are made respectfully,as far as"nothing we can do",we can't save the world ,all journeys begin with the first step,so collectively even singularly changes can be made,if you care enough to make them,don't buy fur,if you don't believe in it,donate to organizations that do good to promote humane treatment of animals,enviroment protection,who make a difference,if you eat meat buy from local growers,organic,know your products and buy accordingly,volunteer,differences can be made,if you try and want to make a change.Call me a bleeding heart,whatever,nothing should have to suffer,shark,eel,wasp or snake,are all other beings created just so we could use and abuse them,I think not,after all what kind of planet would this be with just us and a few roaches,keep in mind alot of these industries are survivng because of greed not need,no one will freeze without a fur coat,or starve without meat,no one needs ivory jewelery,or reptile skin boots or bags,do they?But it's YOUR choice,so long as you can live with it.

[castle 38816]

'kay I'm gonna go off on a not-so-little rant here....something I feel kind of passionate about....sharks. I know, I know, sharks don't have fur...but I swear this isn't a hijack.

 

 

Denis Leary said it best right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPSff6V6qjI

 

"We only want to save the cute animals don't we?"

 

 

Honestly fur is only a huge topic because furry animals are usually really cute. They make for great posters to tug at the heart strings and milk "donations" out of people and get a lot of attention. If these animals were butt ugly and/or really scary looking most people wouldn't really think twice about their slaughter and extinction. People complain about fur while at the same time chowing down on a nice big fat cheeseburger topped with lots of bacon....why? Because cows and pigs aren't really that cute.

 

 

 

The Great White Shark (and other species of sharks) are becoming dangerously close to being extinct. Why? Because they're being killed...not to be turned into food, not to be turned into clothing, they're being slaughtered at an alarming rate so their fins can be turned into paper weights to be purchased at souvenir shops by tourists. They're literally being fished, having their fins sliced off...just their fins, and then being tossed back into the ocean, still alive, and otherwise still whole, where they sink to the ocean bed and drown (because they can't swim without their fins). No meat is being taken, they're not being skinned to make clothing......it's literally for their fins...because hey, everyone remembers how spooky Jaws' dorsal fin is right? As it speedily slices through the water after some unsuspecting water skier with that epic music playing. How cool would it be to have that sitting on your desk or something? Wow! These (IMO) beautiful and majestic creatures are being systematically wiped off the face of the planet because of a movie. The Great White population only started decreasing significantly in the 1970's (right around the time that movie came out).

 

Admittedly I have a very love-hate relationship with that movie. It's one of my favorite books (I've had to replace it a few times because I read it too much), and also one of my movies. Oddly enough it's what started my fondness for sharks. But at the same time I hate the effect it's had on our culture and how most people now view sharks as a result.

 

Not to mention the fact that considering where they stand on the oceanic food chain their extinction would throw everything out of whack.

 

 

And yet....no one hears about this. You don't have super models posing nude next to sharks to gain attention....because they're scary....and they're not cute. And it's really really sad and shines an ugly glaring light on how shallow our society really is....even when it tries to be compassionate, it still comes off as being very douchbagish.

 

I mean seriously....what image elicits more sympathy from you?

 

This one?

 

Or this one?

 

Or this one? (I did a google image search and couldn't even find a picture online that says "Save the Great White Shark" so just pretend there's a caption saying "save me" at the bottom)

 

 

You see what I mean? The estimated worldwide population of the Great White Shark is I think somewhere between 800 to 2,600 (no I didn't forget any zeros). That's worldwide people! How is this not making headlines? Where are all the sexy celebrities when the not-so-cute creatures are endangered? And the worst part is they're not even that dangerous. They're not man-eaters. Every year more people are killed by vending machines than by shark attacks (I'm serious. Vending machines. I couldn't make this stuff up folks).

 

It's one of the only creatures on this planet (if not THE only creature) that was created perfect and has never had to evolve. And this is what we're doing to it.

 

You bet your ass if the dolphins were in this kind of trouble we'd be hearing about it everywhere.

 

ok, so maybe that was a little bit of a hijack but it was sort of related right? :p

[Athos 108589]

I swore I was going to stay away from this thread, but I so agree with you Castle. Another species that is under global threat are ampibians ... Frogs in particular. This is due to habitat loss, capture and harvesting for bait, collection for dissection in school science classes, and just us people running them down with our cars.

 

But as you say, you just don't see supermodels kissing frogs!

[April Dawn 12207]

Stuff like that drives me craaaaaaaazy! I hate our societies obsession with only saving cute animals.

Posted via Mobile Device

[cometman 35115]

I don't care if they're cute or ugly. I agree with CC on the main point......animal abuse is totally unacceptable. As human beings, we're supposed to be on top of the food chain and have compassion for other species. Sadly, there are some human beings that feel animals can be treated inhumanely.

[LeeRichards 177238]

Being Easter time we best watch out for this big bad Bunny hunter ;)

 

and NO I don't mean Hugh Hefner I mean Elmer Fudd !!!! ;)