Is It Just Me Or...

[roamingguy 300292]

is this inappropriate.

First off I'm not a church goer at all...been years, lots of years ago, but today had to go to church, first communion for my nephew...apparently a real big deal in the Catholic Church

When I was raised, going to church, you dressed up in your proverbial "Sunday Best"

Today, I go, dressed in my Sunday best. Not only do I see many many members of the congregation in jeans and a tshirt but what was even more shocking, and I'm no prude, but some ladies wearing tight dresses, showing cleavage (one breasts almost falling out of the dress), and some, very short in length. It would be considered indiscrete for a lady going to an outcall at some guy's hotel to walk through the lobby dressed the way these women were...just finding it shocking that they were dressed, more like they were going out clubbing than going to church

Like I said, I'm no prude, but there is a time and place for everything and this clothing worn didn't seem appropriate for church IMHO

Mind you this is coming from a guy who thinks it's rude to wear a hat at the dinner table or a restaurant, but see many do it now

RG

[Athos 108589]

I'm not a prude either, but I have to agree with you.

 

Today I drove past a funeral home and the mourners were out in the parking lot. One young lady, could have been between 18 and 21, was wearing a very short, and very tight black minidress. Stilettos as well. The thing is the dress, a size bigger and maybe 3 inches longer, with a nice pair of pumps, would have been just fine. For a funeral, totally inappropriate.

 

after I regained control of my car I just shook my head!

 

Porthos

[cometman 35115]

I'm no church goer either, but it's a sign of the times. With falling congregation numbers, churches have to modernize their restrictions and broaden their appeal or risk closure.

[stevecurious 42059]

I too notice the changes in behavior, attire and overall common sense in society. Let me be clear, by no means do I have decades of experience to draw upon after all I am in my early thirties, but I do notice what is now considered "acceptable."

 

I was raised an open minded, clear thinking, stand by what you believe is right and consider others child. That philosophy is still with me to this day and when I attend functions that require proper attire I comply. I may not necessarily want to wear a suit and tie on a blistering 30 degree day in July but I do because the situation warrants such dress.

 

To be clear I am far from a Church going man, I respect everyone's right to attend but it is just not for me. That said I believe Church is a place where one should be presentable, maybe not necessarily jeans and a T-shirt but perhaps Jeans, a button down and a blazer. A respectable compromise for younger, non suit wearing guys. A few of the places (at least in my mind) that warrant "dressing for the occasion" would be funerals, weddings, Church, job interviews, etc.

 

On a related note I have heard, locally of course, that The Church is taking a more relaxed view of attire in the hopes that it may attract more people (specifically younger people) to attend mass. I wonder if this is indeed accurate as a whole or a local phenom only?

 

That is it from me on this topic as I have errands to do tomorrow and I have to make sure my "Monday Best" is ready to wear.;)

[Guest M*****ss****e]

I personally don't agree with this new lax attitude regarding Sunday sermon attire. I find it disrespectful and in poor taste, and I'm not even a church goer. I was raised in a Christian family and we all went to church every Sunday, and we dressed appropriately. If I wore to church what I sometimes wear downtown, my great grandmother would surely find a way to come back from the dead and slap the face right off of me !!!!

 

It's not just church and funerals either. At a certain wedding I attended (the details need not be remembered) a lovely 15 year old girl showed up dressed as though she were on her way to her exotic dancing job. I was shocked and offended..... for the couple of course *cough*.

 

I understand the attitude of hoping to draw in the younger crowd, but is a mini skirt really THAT important or so powerful as to make a 17 year old attend church? It's more likely that later services and more singing will do a better job of that, in my opinion anyway. I can see, sadly, the rapid decline in congregation numbers, and yet here I sit on my laptop with no intention of attending next week. This has more to do with my belief that you do not need to enter a certain building to worship your faith, but I digress. Bottom line, there are times and places to wear your stiletto's or comfy jeans, and there are times and places to wear your high necked blouse or sport jacket.

[Phaedrus 209521]

It's not just you, RG. The sort of thing you describe is far too common.

 

I think the problem is that there's a certain segment of society that simply doesn't understand the concept of decorum. I think the problem here is that some folks have been told that you're supposed to wear decent clothes to church, but they haven't twigged that dressing up to go to a service - or any formal social event, for that matter - is not the same as dressing up to go out clubbing. And to a certain extent, I can't really blame the clueless teenagers who are doing this; yes, they're ignorant of social standards, but this is almost certainly because nobody's ever told them that such standards exist. This is a parenting job, and it clearly hasn't been done.

 

I'm going to stop now, 'cos I already sound like a cross between my grandparents and the world's most horrible snob.

 

Except that I can't sign off without noting the delicious irony of a bunch of SPs and their clients adopting a thoroughly conservative worldview on this. I think some people would probably be appalled by their allies :)

[nntsci 11076]

Interesting observation. Church in my experience was always a place to show off, but it used to be ones wealth by wearing expensive clothes (Sunday best as you say), minks, nausiating levels of perfume, make up, and so on, rather than clevage per se. I personally don't think theres a difference.

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

I agree with everyone else. There's a time and a place for everything, but that's a far cry from saying that anything is appropriate all the time, everywhere. I wouldn't have a problem with someone wearing jeans and a t-shirt to a church service or a funeral. But revealing, provocative clothing--no way!

 

I've always told my children that they have an obligation to try not to make other people uncomfortable in social situations. Save the heated debates for the classroom, pub or when they're with their friends. Don't swear when their grandmother is present. Help me look like I'm what those other stuffy adults might consider to be a good mother!

[Guest My***tLixx]

is this inappropriate.

First off I'm not a church goer at all...been years, lots of years ago, but today had to go to church, first communion for my nephew...apparently a real big deal in the Catholic Church

When I was raised, going to church, you dressed up in your proverbial "Sunday Best"

Today, I go, dressed in my Sunday best. Not only do I see many many members of the congregation in jeans and a tshirt but what was even more shocking, and I'm no prude, but some ladies wearing tight dresses, showing cleavage (one breasts almost falling out of the dress), and some, very short in length. It would be considered indiscrete for a lady going to an outcall at some guy's hotel to walk through the lobby dressed the way these women were...just finding it shocking that they were dressed, more like they were going out clubbing than going to church

Like I said, I'm no prude, but there is a time and place for everything and this clothing worn didn't seem appropriate for church IMHO

Mind you this is coming from a guy who thinks it's rude to wear a hat at the dinner table or a restaurant, but see many do it now

RG

I can see how some situations a certain level of decorum would be ok out of respect for previous generations...but really, get used to it - it's a different world now. Would I be offended at a girl in a low-cut dress at a church (if you'd ever catch me in a church)? Hell, no...something to take my mind off the condemning sermon. At my Grandpa's funeral? Hell, no...he's probably enjoying the view too. I'm so tired of being told how we should live our lives and being scared we offend somebody...I say screw 'em. Do what thou wilt. Eat, drink, and be merry.

[MightyPen 67414]

Is it just me?

Nope, not at all, as the replies in the thread show.

 

This is a symptom of a bigger social change. There was a time when some institutions were "bigger than" the individuals that belonged to them, and so people deferred to the expectations of the institution when conducting themselves -- like choosing what to wear. Church was the very top example of this; in a place meant for contemplation of Who We Are and Why We're Here, you dressed to show that for that couple of hours, things weren't all about YOU.

 

That attitude has mostly vanished. Across the board, the individual comes first and institutions second. It sounds like church is now a venue for social networking (well, it's always been that too), but people are dressed to satisfy themselves and express their own priorities (sexuality? pointed indifference?), not those the church they're attending.

 

Most of the time I'm in favour of this change. It's good to move power and choice away from institutions and over to individuals. We don't need to get into the flaws of strict obedience to an exalted religion. Deposing marriage from its throne has also been a big stride forward; now people can leave marriages that are broken, when not so long ago you just stayed because the concept of preserving that institution trumped the needs of the individuals within it. The church squandered the respect people had given it through corruption and creeping irrelevance. So have greedy governments, corrupt and violent police working in thrall to the state, news organizations serving advertisers and demagogues instead of readers and viewers... you name it. Each of those exalted institutions has thrown itself on its own sword through corruption or failure to grow and adapt.

 

But... my concern is that there's nothing to replace them. Nothing that tells us to stop and think about what we belong to, and that there are some things more important than our individual, isolated desires. I don't want the church to come back, but I wouldn't mind if everyone took a couple of hours each Saturday or Sunday morning to meet their neighbours and remember we're not each the center of the universe.

 

Having lost that so entirely makes each of us weaker, and easy prey for those organized and efficient institutions that remain. Which mostly means money-making cabals, exhorting us to buy laundry detergent or a flashy new car.

 

I'm not sure where the answer is. But the symptoms of the problem are everywhere. No, Roamingguy, it's not just you.

[NotchJohnson 214123]

I used to go to church almost every Sunday and got involved in the community so much until I realized how many hypocrites goes to church. Like I said I got involved in the sense I gave to my church, I built a giant steel cross that is standing high behind the church and is lit up at night.

 

I was going to church and noticed how many people that cheated and stole and did bad things just sat there like good samaritan's. Yes, I stopped going myself but still believe in the catholic church. The only time you will see me there is for a niece or nephew's communion or confession or wedding and funeral. And I always dress up appropriately when going to church and very seldom seen others dressed inappropriately.

[tokan 16826]

If I may provide an alternative point of view. I still go to church and to me personally if someone shows up in a jeans and T-Shirt I have no problem with it. To me it's not so much what someone is wearing in church but how they behave. I get annoyed when people are yacking away in the middle of a service or let their kids run screaming up and down the isles. I could care less if a person is wearing shorts or a suit as long as their respectful during the service, although I do realize there is a certain irony to this. I've always felt that you should behave respectful in a church/mosque/synagogue as even if you don't believe the same thing, faith or beliefs can be an important thing to people and you should treat their beliefs and place of worship with respect.

 

Now I definitely agree though that at certain formal occasions like funerals, weddings, and other such events that you should suit up. But as for church it's not a stickler for me :)

[sandimoon 72517]

 

is this inappropriate.

First off I'm not a church goer at all...been years, lots of years ago, but today had to go to church, first communion for my nephew...apparently a real big deal in the Catholic Church

When I was raised, going to church, you dressed up in your proverbial "Sunday Best"

Today, I go, dressed in my Sunday best. Not only do I see many many members of the congregation in jeans and a tshirt but what was even more shocking, and I'm no prude, but some ladies wearing tight dresses, showing cleavage (one breasts almost falling out of the dress), and some, very short in length. It would be considered indiscrete for a lady going to an outcall at some guy's hotel to walk through the lobby dressed the way these women were...just finding it shocking that they were dressed, more like they were going out clubbing than going to church

Like I said, I'm no prude, but there is a time and place for everything and this clothing worn didn't seem appropriate for church IMHO

Mind you this is coming from a guy who thinks it's rude to wear a hat at the dinner table or a restaurant, but see many do it now

RG

Great post RG.

Last year, my cousin GG in ON passed suddenly & obviously my sister who lives there attended the funeral.

On the way to the graveside service she called me on her bluetooth like I wanted & I asked,

" So how was it? '

" You know sad......the girls had a rough time............

you know what.......our family is so fucking ghetto....."

& started to laugh with mirth mind you.

Apparently the best dressed there were my Sis & my Dad.

GG's brother, father, nephews all wore jeans, sneakers & the like.

Some of my female cousins though mini's were ok.

My Sis was embarrassed for them.

We were raised in an Army family. Not drill style but certainly respect wise.

Always taught that you need not agree with a person you always show respect to the institution.

House of worship, political office, courtroom, school, military services, etc.

And the first way to do that is to dress in line with the circumstances.

No hats inside, no jeans or sneakers in church, no mouthy t-shirts in school,

no relaxed attire to a funeral.

My parents had only 2 girls & we weren't allowed our ball caps at the table.

And no cursing in public lest a child or elderly person be within earshot.

I swore once out loud on the ball field after a game only in the company of 2 friends & my father who was behind me.

I braced for it....sure enough....WHAP....right in the back of the head.

He worried if I did that so easily in front of him in public, I must be one foul little snot elsewhere embarrassing him to no end. Which wasn't true but I never did it again.

when I attend functions that require proper attire I comply. I may not necessarily want to wear a suit and tie on a blistering 30 degree day in July but I do because the situation warrants such dress.

Precisely. The situation warrants respect.

The easiest way, in my mind, is to at least take the

time to shit, shower, shave & dress nicely.

It's not hard & it shows you are thoughtful.

If I wore to church what I sometimes wear downtown, my great grandmother would surely find a way to come back from the dead and slap the face right off of me !!!!

 

It's not just church and funerals either. At a certain wedding I attended (the details need not be remembered) a lovely 15 year old girl showed up dressed as though she were on her way to her exotic dancing job. I was shocked and offended..... for the couple of course *cough*.

 

and there are times and places to wear your high necked blouse or sport jacket.

Exactly. Society has lost a sense of decorum of late.

Simply because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I have also been to weddings where I could swear

girls were trying to outshine the Bride???

By the way I like your Great Grandma.

My Dad used to say,

" Do ya like your freckles where they are or do you want

to spend the next hour sweeping 'em up off the floor? "

" yessir yessir yessir! ".

, I can't really blame the clueless teenagers who are doing this; yes, they're ignorant of social standards, but this is almost certainly because nobody's ever told them that such standards exist. This is a parenting job, and it clearly hasn't been done.

I've always told my children that they have an obligation to try not to make other people uncomfortable in social situations. Save the heated debates for the classroom, pub or when they're with their friends. Don't swear when their grandmother is present. Help me look like I'm what those other stuffy adults might consider to be a good mother!

That was it for my parents. If you embarrass us you will pay for it.

Thank goodness there are still parents like my sister

who raises her sons with impeccable manners.

They hold doors for people at Wal Mart, it's so cute.

 

Nope, not at all, as the replies in the thread show.

 

This is a symptom of a bigger social change. There was a time when some institutions were "bigger than" the individuals that belonged to them, and so people deferred to the expectations of the institution when conducting themselves -- like choosing what to wear. Church was the very top example of this; in a place meant for contemplation of Who We Are and Why We're Here, you dressed to show that for that couple of hours, things weren't all about YOU.

 

That attitude has mostly vanished. Across the board, the individual comes first and institutions second. It sounds like church is now a venue for social networking (well, it's always been that too), but people are dressed to satisfy themselves and express their own priorities (sexuality? pointed indifference?), not those the church they're attending.

 

but I wouldn't mind if everyone took a couple of hours each Saturday or Sunday morning to meet their neighbours and remember we're not each the center of the universe.

 

I'm not sure where the answer is. But the symptoms of the problem are everywhere. No, Roamingguy, it's not just you.

This too makes me sad.

We communicate by bluetooth, PC, Text what have you & not in person.

I miss the days in the Army life where we had a social at someone's house every weekend. We connected. Not so much anymore.

Now when I attend a wedding or grad, the guests are so self absorbed

it is nauseating.

I've always felt that you should behave respectful in a church/mosque/synagogue as even if you don't believe the same thing, faith or beliefs can be an important thing to people and you should treat their beliefs and place of worship with respect.

Agreed.

I went to Catholic school in Ontario as it was the only French education then.

Even though I am Anglican, I attended church services with my class.

I omitted Communion & Confession but was always respectful & quiet.

Except that I can't sign off without noting the delicious irony of a bunch of SPs and their clients adopting a thoroughly conservative worldview on this. I think some people would probably be appalled by their allies :)

I like this. You are right, I am very conservative in most aspects of my life.

What happens behind closed doors is fine.

But how we show the world respect & consideration should trump ego.

Sandi

[Boomer 33202]

The first time I observed this phenomena was quite a few years ago, when I got married. I am an Anglican and married a Catholic girl. As a requirement I had to take instructions from the catholic clergy and agree to let the children be raised in the Catholic church. For me at the time it was an eye opener because back then I could already observe a relaxation of the dress codes between our two churches. I attend church on an occasional basis, and took a hiatus following my wife's illness and death.

 

I think that a relaxation of the style of dress isn't necessarily a bad thing as it's a reflection of how our society is evolving. It shouldn't be an impediment to attendance, as I feel it would make for a better society if we went more and followed the fundamental teachings of most religions. Many objections are generational, and I like RG go crazy over a ball cap worn at the dinner table. I had my daughter and son in law out for lunch one day and I had to ask the lad to remove his hat. My daughter understood but he was totally confused by my request. As someone from an older generation I try to practice a more civil style of interacting with other than later generations. But at the end of the day I know that I have to adapt as societal norms are continuously changing.

[Athos 108589]

It seems to me that with individual freedom comes social responsibility. I value the former above all else, but it seems the latter is being lost!

 

Porthos

[CristyCurves 169032]

I don't think this is a new thing as I can remember going to my friends church (a catholic church),when I was younger, and was surprised at how casually dressed most of the congregation was.I am anglican,on sundays we had to dress to impress,this seemed to be more important than the sermons.However dressing scantily is a no no in my opinion,it's disrespectful in any church setting.

[Parker 19761]

I don't really think it's a new thing or necessarily a bad thing...

When I went to church as a kid, we were always encouraged to wear what we like and spend time after the serious bits socializing and meeting the boys our age. (I was not originally raised Christian though...)

 

I highly doubt Jesus would care what anyone's wearing or even if they attend church... he was a fairly open-minded and forgiving kind of guy.

Maybe he'd even like to see people letting loose a little and showing a little boob? Who knows.. ;)

[piano8950 32577]

I'm not a Christian, but being in the wedding industry, I'm in a church a lot for ceremonies. I've seen most women wear clothes that definitely looked sexy, but nothing too outlandish or disrespectful. Many wear a shawl to cover their shoulders and cleavage while inside, and take it off for the rest of the day unless it was cold.

 

But there was one person who's dress was beyond inappropriate. It felt like every step she took, her breasts were going to pop out. I felt that even outside the church, in the context of the wedding of a friend, it was inappropriate. Mind you, if she was wearing the exact same thing to a club, or a casual get together, or beach party or something similar, it would've been fine by me.

 

I just think that sometimes, the need to dress and show off your body isn't appropriate. And this applies to men too who wear muscle shirts. Yes, you're fit and you're healthy! Good for you, but in the office, I do not care.

[roamingguy 300292]

Maybe it's been a long long long time since I was last in Church (I'm agnostic). I was surprised at the jeans and tshirts but maybe the sign of the times

But the real shocker, and I still consider inappropriate, wearing the skin tight short dresses, showing cleavage (and not just a little), more like they were going out clubbing

And these weren't teenager, they were ladies in their twenties and thirties.

You may not agree with organized religion, or a church, or it means nothing to you...but it means something to others. When walking into a Church, you still show respect. I'm completely agnostic, but I don't disrespect the Church because I don't believe in their faith

A rambling

RG

[Guest]

When I was younger I went to church. Mostly the children/teens dressed casual to dressy. If we were caught wearing mini skirts and having our tittys hanging out. I think the whole congregation would take rounds kicking our arses back home and helping us change our cloths, while sprinkling holly water over us and saying prayers. Jeans and a nice top is one thing but titties and asses are another.

 

Years back I had a conversation with an older lady that was saying every aspect of society is becoming casual. She remembered when people would get dressed up to go out to the movies. Sometimes it is nice to dress up out of the normal, it puts an importance to what you are doing.

[Maverick 2873]

Very interesting topic, so many things about it that bother me that I don't think I should say anything at all. On one hand, not dressing up for church or a funeral is a bit disrespectful, but on the other hand being pressured to dress a certain way is a misguided tradition and judging people based on their dress is a slippery slope.

 

I don't want to get into my views on religion, but I would say it's much more important how you act in church than how you look, as someone previously mentioned. People shouldn't treat it like a gossip session or a daycare, otherwise why bother going.

[whatsup 11893]

I have not read every post in this Thread but I think that you should dress appropriate for the moment. Being it a wedding, funeral, christioning (sp. bad sorry) or any other event that deserves respect. I know I will always.

[Athos 108589]

My issue is less with whether the venue is a church, or someplace else. I'm also in favour of people dressing comfortably, and in ways that suits their tastes, etc., etc. but, I also think we all have certain social responsibilities and that a certain amount of respect is important. That doesn't mean dressing the way I do, but surely there is something between that and looking like your going clubbing or the beach, when you are in church, a funeral, etc., etc. There's a huge range of nice, casual clothing that most people should be able to find something appropriate.

 

Porthos