Ontario Pimping Law Appealed!

[taloon 1472]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-launch-11th-hour-bid-to-keep-ontario-pimping-law-in-place/article2413984/

 

So our government, (your government!) has launched a last minute appeal to stop the forward thinking decision in Ontario to legalize licensed brothels.

In my opinion, this landmark decision to keep our girls safe by regulating and decriminalizing brothels was a fundamental step to cleaning up what I like to call "unnecessary crime". Right up there with decriminalizing marijuana.

 

Now I may be way off base on this one, but I would think most ladies would jump at the opportunity to work in a safe, well-run, and legal environment. Even if the trade off was some regulation and perhaps extra taxes/fees. Any ladies care to comment on that?

 

At any rate, this case interests me greatly and I am going to keep very close tabs on it. I have a strong feeling that any appeal will have very shaky ground to stand on because the original ruling was unanimous by all judges. Personally, it is my hope that this ruling stands. And not only that, I would applaud the opportunity to expand it to all of the other provinces.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Brothels can come in many shapes, sizes, and configurations. Of course the question remains quite open about what the potential legal and regulatory environment may eventually be. The law in its current form has been found to be unconstitutional, but that finding is itself still subject to appeal to the Supreme Court. If this finding stands, then the question would arise of whether the Federal Government would attempt to re-write the law into a form that would pass a constitutionality test.

 

The Ontario Court of Appeal has signalled that their opinion is that a revised brothel law that conforms with constitutional requirements is indeed possible. For instance (my own speculation), the law could be re-written to allow for small independant providers to work out of their own locations, but leave larger or more commercial types of brothels still illegal. The range of other possibilities is endless.

 

Because, of course, brothels need not necessarily be large industrial-type establishments.

 

In New Zealand, for example, a brothel is defined as "any premises kept or habitually used for the purposes of prostitution". In New Zealand, there are two classifications of brothel:

 

First, the small owner-operated brothel which does not require registration or licensing. To fall into this category, the brothel must have not more than 4 sex workers; and each of those workers must retain control over his or her individual earnings from the sex work that is carried out at the brothel. Inspections and entry to such "home-based" brothels by the authorities is not allowed without a warrant based on reasonable suspicion that a law of some sort is being violated.

 

Second: the larger brothels. These are the facilities where there must be a person who is the registered operator. These larger brothels require the operator to hold an Operator's Certificate, and they are subject to open inspections to ensure compliance with health and labour regulations, etc.

 

So, as the New Zealand experience shows, not all brothels need be created equal. Canada's one-worker independant operations could be defined as "small owner-operated brothels" were they eventually to fall under a hypothetical future Canadian law that was similar to New Zealand's. And the only difference from what indys would be doing today at a private in-call would be that what they are doing would be legal instead of illegal.

 

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0028/latest/whole.html#dlm197815

 

Unsurprisingly, there's a range of opinion and preferences among the ladies when it comes to larger brothels. There's a sample of these thoughts in Samantha's thread from last year:

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=47220

[Guest Ou**or**n]

Interesting information on the types of brothels allowed in New Zealand.

 

I believe that if you allow only large regulated brothels then you haven't solved the problem as there will always be a significant number of ladies that wish to keep their activities anonymous. They not likely to want to work in a large brothel and will continue to work is small incalls. If my memory serves correctly this is a problem that is occurring in some parts of Australia.

 

I think such a thing highly unlikely for two reasons. First I can't see the Harper regime ever legalizing large brothels as they are just huge political targets. Secondly I doubt the banning of small independent brothels would be constitutional.

 

Rather I believe the Harper regime may choose not to legislate anything at all other than legislation strongly against human trafficking and maybe something additional around under-age workers. They may not want to appear to their conservative base to be legislating in favour of any type of brothel but rather choose to leave it municipalities to deal with on a local zoning level. This would also be in keeping with their belief on the role of government.

[Boomer 33202]

I don't think it should come as any great surprise that following Judge Himel's decision this would eventually come before the Supreme Court. It fits quite well with the present government, as they don't have to take any action any time soon. I would agree that it may not lead to new legislation as I don't really believe the politicians want to have an open debate. The other problem with crafting new progressive law is that it would probably lend itself to new avenues of appeal under the charter.

 

I would also agree that the outcome is more likely to be an attempt to regulate the industry through the provincial and municipal governments. I'm not sure that this will be good. It may lead to high fees and a diverse patchwork of regulations through the cities that will be far more difficult to appeal. Compliance and getting licenses will be difficult and can you imagine assigning bylaws officers to enforce the rules around small operations out of a ladies apartment.

[Athos 108589]

It really needs to go to the SCC so there is clarity and the law applied uniformly across the country. It would be nice if the government could be counted on to pass progressive and sensible legislation .... Perhaps like the NZ model. But let's not be naive about what we might expect from them.

[fortunateone 156618]

I would like to point out that if the majority of ladies want to work in such places as decribed, they already can. Massage parlours already offer up that sort of environment.

 

But the majority of independent sps do not work in a massage parlour and with the law changes, will not run off to work in a brothel..

 

I think the media continues to help perpetuate a myth of these laws creating brothels on every corner, when the reality there are already licensed establishments for body work. All that will happen in your massage parlours is that the body work would be able to include FS sessions as well as hj, and that the licenses will be more likely to be requested than they are now.

 

But no, indy sps, are not going to clock in with an employer, and face fees and fines and whatever else an employer decides she should do with her body and time.

 

A 'bawdy house' does not mean an actual multiple room structure, it simply means a place where the act of prostitution takes place on a regular basis. Meaning, my incall, used by one person (myself) is a bawdy house, so in the words of the media and govt, I have a opened a brothel in my spare room.

 

And yet no one has noticed, in all this time.

[taloon 1472]

I think you make a good point, Fortunateone.

This is what I was speaking of earlier when I mentioned "unnecessary crime", it seems these illegal activities only become real issues when it is politically savvy to do so. Still, don't you think it would be better if it were legal on the books than not?

[SamanthaEvans 166767]

A brothel or bawdy house can also be a hotel room that the companion has rented in which she sees two or more different clients. Many of us have done this at various times and most of the touring ladies do it regularly. Large, 4 and 5-star hotels either don't pay attention or don't care as long as there are no complaints from hotel staff or other guests. People take hotel rooms all the time to have illicit sex, after all.

 

As for whether things would be better if it's all legal, well, sure. I don't think this is an area of private life that needs heavy regulation by federal or municipal authorities. I'll bet that most of us will continue to work much as we are now, only without any worry that some malicious person may out us to our landlords or the neighbourhood. Until the SCC makes its decision, low-key, independent ladies like me won't be prosecuted for operating bawdy houses, but we can still be charged and that's not a small matter at all! If I were charged with operating a bawdy house, I wouldn't be held in jail or anything, but everything I own would be impounded and my bank accounts would be frozen, all deemed to be the proceeds of crime until proven otherwise. I think this is extremely unlikely, however. I'd have to be causing a significant disturbance in the neighbourhood before the police would step in and it would have to be a major problem before the Crown would lay a charge which might have to be dropped entirely in a couple of years.

 

To be honest, I don't think changes in the bawdy house laws will affect my business one iota. I've asked everyone I've seen for the last month whether they would go to a licensed, publicly-recognizable establishment to see me or anyone else. Not one of them has expressed any interest because they have concerns about their privacy. They don't want to run into anyone or have anyone other than their paid companion know who they are. Fair enough, I think.

 

While it's true that my way of working is illegal, in that I work from my home, in all other respects I work legally. I declare all my earnings and pay taxes accordingly. I work quietly and have never had a problem with anyone because of noise, late hours or parking.

 

I recognize that some anxious folks want to be able to identify every prostitute in the city and ensure that we have periodic health checks, etc. I don't think that will happen. We are notoriously difficult to manage and most of us won't conform to laws that we believe are not in our best interests. Besides, if the general population had any idea how many women work in this industry, part-time, full-time or on an occasional basis, I think they'd be scandalized!

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I would love to be able to pay my taxes on this trade. I do pay taxes for my Reflexology studio.....very very little goes through those books.

 

I vote for elections, and well feel if I could pay taxes as any other business owner, would make me more of a contributing citizen!

 

For awile, before I figured out how to pay "some" taxes, I hated the feeling I would get when I went to vote, cause I almost felt like I was lying, or scaming...if I vote, then I should pay taxes!

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Everyone is legally required to pay taxes on all their income. Canada Revenue doesn't care about how the income was earned. Being a sex worker is not illegal - and even if it was, the CRA only contacts LE in regard to tax avoidance or tax fraud.

 

According to Nikki Thomas:

the CRA has its own industry code for us. We have been organizing tax seminars to help people report their income because that really speaks to overall social acceptance.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/30/sex-worker-nikki-thomas-talks-about-normalizing-her-profession-in-the-light-of-ontarios-court-ruling/

 

 

There's a good page on SPOC's website regarding "Tax Return Information for Sex Workers":

 

http://spoc.ca/resources.html

 

 

Some further recent discussion here on Cerb:

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72962

[Boomer 33202]

I don't think there's any reason you can't pay your taxes on this trade as you put it. Prostitution is not illegal so if you declare as an adult entertainer I think there is no problem. It's probably a bigger problem for you if you don't pay and are caught. I'm sure there a ladies here that do so, and I'm sure will be happy to give you some advice on the ins and outs. It's got advantages in that you can get a chance to probably make some write offs and can contribute to an RRSP. Also, your records with Revenue Canada are totally confidential.

[Secrets of Victoria 7208]

I file my taxes under 'adult entertainment'.

Even though I have been through an audit once or twice, I have yet to be asked how is the income is actually generated.

 

I write off everything that I legally can for running it, and always check the laws to find out what has changed from year to year.

Of course, it always pays to have a very good accountant, which their fees you can use as a business expense.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

I don't think there's any reason you can't pay your taxes on this trade as you put it. Prostitution is not illegal so if you declare as an adult entertainer I think there is no problem. It's probably a bigger problem for you if you don't pay and are caught. I'm sure there a ladies here that do so, and I'm sure will be happy to give you some advice on the ins and outs. It's got advantages in that you can get a chance to probably make some write offs and can contribute to an RRSP. Also, your records with Revenue Canada are totally confidential.

 

I can give you advice but I was advised by a former tax auditor to NOT declare yourelf as an adult entertainer. You will be red flagged on the spot because then you're considered a cash business. I've got a good job title you can use and because you travel, that means a lot of writeoffs! Start keeping receipts for everything.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I can give you advice but I was advised by a former tax auditor to NOT declare yourelf as an adult entertainer. You will be red flagged on the spot because then you're considered a cash business. I've got a good job title you can use and because you travel, that means a lot of writeoffs! Start keeping receipts for everything.

 

See this is what I have been told too! That is why I started to use my massage business to pay my taxes through...