Times are changing

[kih 458]

The times are changing!

 

Police no longer require search warrants to obtain IP info with ISP's

 

See this article reporting Ont Superior Court recent decision.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1285658

[spud271 47779]

Now that is a most disturbing article Kih. I think Canada is turning into the U.S. and the U.K., where big brother is always watching!!! This is not a good thing at all.

[Seymour 3970]

Disturbing indeed. While I agree, protection of minors is paramount. It does seem the ISP was all to willing to divulge the info with minimal effort. Perhaps trying to avoid publicity after the whole 'traffic shaping' exercise (bandwidth throttling of P2P network traffic).

[kih 458]

Thats so true Spud.

 

For instance, the Police also have access to the "Onstar" GPS system standardly equiped on late model GM vehicles and can locate same within minutes after the vehicle ignition switch is turned on without having a warrant. Its irrelevent if the owner of the gm vehicle subscribes to "Onstar" as the technology runs in the background.

 

With a plate number - they can access the VIN and subsequently inter alia "Onstar" for location.

[Seymour 3970]

So what should we expect next? I mean are are ISPs going to hand over subscriber lists of heavy users to to LE? Is this their way of getting a handle on P2P usage? Will citizens end up on a watch list because they are heavy internet users?

Sorry the questions are not directed at anyone, rather they are meant to point to the larger topic -just how much privacy is left in society.

[kih 458]

Seymour,

 

I agree the reason why the action came about is disturbing. But the precedence has now been set that a persons privacy and respective IP address and where they have been on the net is open to the Police without warrant.

 

I don't think the judgment will end at this stage as it appears that such ruling is embarking on infringing individuals rights as guaranteed by the Charter.

[Guest s******ecan****]

Now that is a most disturbing article Kih. I think Canada is turning into the U.S. and the U.K., where big brother is always watching!!! This is not a good thing at all.

 

If only we had the protections available to citizens of the US. This sort of illegal search would not be possible under US law.

 

This should serve as a warning to us all. I have discontinued use of wireless routing as no level of encryption could ever ensure someone is not going to park nearby and hack in and surf on your IP. They could do any number of illegal surfing but you will be the one who pays in the end since the police care only about the IP.

 

Now I'm actually considering giving up the internet altogether at home. I may go back to some old ways of doing things (bank by phone, shop by toll free) and confine my surfing to hot spots or public wireless access points.

 

Its not that I've knowingly done anything illegal but I don't like the gov being able to so easily accuse me of all manner of wrongdoing.

 

I'm sure most who have surfed porn has at sometime or another had an unsolicited pop-up appear that may cross the line, some models who look of age could well be 1-3 years below.....more than enough to have you put away by the letter of the law.

 

As for porn I don't surf anymore since I heard of these issues becoming more common about a year ago, I stick to my cable company's pay per view (obviously legal) and purchase DVD from a local store, not free but at least legal.

[Seymour 3970]

I hear you re: the infringement of the individual's rights. I think it is a question to be asked of our Members of Parliament. Th PM made several statements on Thursday regarding border security and harmonization where it makes sense. As citizens we need to stay on top of these officials to ensure our voices are heard.

[spud271 47779]

Thank god my GM doesn't have Onstar! It is starting to look like back home now. Wonder when the CCTV's will be everywhere! I usually moon them every chance I get, especially after a good night in the pub!

 

I understand the need for protection, but sometimes the state takes it a bit far. The paranoia around what "could" happen tends to grip governments as of late. As someone who grew up in London when the IRA were planting bombs all over town, I know what it's like to live in fear, but you should never let fear run your life. Otherwise those trying to instill fear have already won!

 

Thats so true Spud.

 

For instance, the Police also have access to the "Onstar" GPS system standardly equiped on late model GM vehicles and can locate same within minutes after the vehicle ignition switch is turned on without having a warrant. Its irrelevent if the owner of the gm vehicle subscribes to "Onstar" as the technology runs in the background.

 

With a plate number - they can access the VIN and subsequently inter alia "Onstar" for location.

[kih 458]

I hear you re: the infringement of the individual's rights. I think it is a question to be asked of our Members of Parliament. Th PM made several statements on Thursday regarding border security and harmonization where it makes sense. As citizens we need to stay on top of these officials to ensure our voices are heard.

 

The decision is problematic for Appeal to say the least. All depends how the issue surfaced in Superior Court. Because the issue came about as a result of a criminal matter; The Criminal Code will dictate how an Appeal may proceed. The Appeal Court of Ontario may not have jurisdiction by way of Federal Statute to entertain

 

Section 784 of the criminal code states:

 

...An appeal lies to the court of appeal from a decision granting or refusing the relief sought in proceedings by way of mandamus, certiorari or prohibition....

[Akhenaton 221]

To answer your question, sort of, less and less by the minute as "witch hunters" contstantly clamour for more freedom of action, they in effect restrict other people's freedom. In a way, one could say, we have lost the war on terror already, as now we are being subjected to terror from inside.

 

What was the old adage ? you must always fight for freedom, but most people are only too happy to simply give it up.

 

We actually as a society, have surrendered many rights on the basis that we are not responsible for our actions. For example a few years back here in Ottawa, an idividual sued there employer because they got into an accident and totaled their car as well as sustained injuries. The basis was that the employer "did not control" the amount of liquor employees were allowed to drink at the company xmas diner, well the fact that the person left the party and went to not one but two other establushements after this and drank quite a bit there, was simply not a reason for employers to serve liquor to adult employees (!), turns out the only reason the suit came to the employers door step was that the other establishements were not financially viable targets. Thanks to this individual, many employers no longer permit ANY alcohol at functions, and many have done away with functions all together.

 

Another instance is when a parent imposes a punshment on their teen child (for posting what the parent considerred inappropriate pictures on the internet), the teen is not happy, and appeals to the courts who dictate that the child was right and that the punishment was too harsh for the "crime" thus undermines the parents authority. btw the punishment was the loss of computer privilege and not going to a year end outing with their school mates, harsh indeed (!)

 

The more we progress down this line, where we ask the state and "others" to be responsible for our actions, the less freedom we will enjoy.

 

 

 

So what should we expect next? I mean are are ISPs going to hand over subscriber lists of heavy users to to LE? Is this their way of getting a handle on P2P usage? Will citizens end up on a watch list because they are heavy internet users?

Sorry the questions are not directed at anyone, rather they are meant to point to the larger topic -just how much privacy is left in society.

[caveman 147]

I understand the need for protection, but sometimes the state takes it a bit far. The paranoia around what "could" happen tends to grip governments as of late. As someone who grew up in London when the IRA were planting bombs all over town, I know what it's like to live in fear, but you should never let fear run your life. Otherwise those trying to instill fear have already won!

 

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

-- Benjamin Franklin

[d*mm*y 887]

My dad used to say that only crooks and politicians bought Cadillac, it would appear that GM has betrayed a huge amount of their target market no wonder they are going in the shiter! Any pimps out there may want to reconsider there Escallade purchases.

 

Thats so true Spud.

 

For instance, the Police also have access to the "Onstar" GPS system standardly equiped on late model GM vehicles and can locate same within minutes after the vehicle ignition switch is turned on without having a warrant. Its irrelevent if the owner of the gm vehicle subscribes to "Onstar" as the technology runs in the background.

 

With a plate number - they can access the VIN and subsequently inter alia "Onstar" for location.

[buggernot 588]

I'm all for privacy measures and find some of the actions taken by some 'free' society govts to be a bit excessive however, people are just WAY too paranoid these days. You read the 2 paragraph snippets in the news about certain events and get appalled by the intrusion thinking that it's 1984. But most reporting about court cases are seriously biased and lacking a lot of the details. Sure there are a few things that happen which are truly scary, but those are the exception and generally do not hold up through appeal. By the time they get reversed, it's not titillating news anymore and you never hear about it.

 

No doubt some examples can be cited where this is not the case, but you know what...shit happens. I think a lot of people spend too much time fretting about things that will never happen or ever impact their lives. To me it's the equivalent of praying to win the lottery every week. I've read about those lucky winners, but it's never happened to me or anyone I know...

[kih 458]

Being paranoid is one thing, but being diligent is another. I have since disabled my onstar because it was no fun being pulled over by 3 cruisers and swarmed by 6 peace officers while on a extended vacation all because a wacky neighbour did not see you for a week and initiated a missing persons report!!

Posted via Mobile Device

[d*mm*y 887]

Better you than me!!! I would be looking for a new neighborhood too!!

 

Being paranoid is one thing, but being diligent is another. I have since disabled my onstar because it was no fun being pulled over by 3 cruisers and swarmed by 6 peace officers while on a extended vacation all because a wacky neighbour did not see you for a week and initiated a missing persons report!!

Posted via Mobile Device

[buggernot 588]

True enough! Jeez, I wouldn't know if I'd be glad my neighbour was concerned, or pissed that they were too paranoid!

 

Being paranoid is one thing, but being diligent is another. I have since disabled my onstar because it was no fun being pulled over by 3 cruisers and swarmed by 6 peace officers while on a extended vacation all because a wacky neighbour did not see you for a week and initiated a missing persons report!!

Posted via Mobile Device