I just have to ask

[JoyfulC 132299]

No, Amelia, I brought up negotiating, because I notice that guys who would rather have you tell them the rate are more likely to claim later you said something different, or that they misunderstood.

 

And I say "freak world" because, as a consumer, I can't think of a single situation in which it would be okay for someone to tell me, after the fact, that their posted rates aren't current. If that ever happened, I wouldn't be embarrassed. I'd be outta there.

 

Usually, when the appointment is confirmed, I confirm the rate. But my original post had nothing to do with confirming rates. It had to do with the dozen or so guys every week who waste my time wanting to play twenty questions about info that's on my site.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

I find most guys who don't ask appropriately.. so your rate is 'blankity blank'? are indeed up to something when they ask a lot of questions. It usually comes out that are only interested in corresponding with you or fake booking.. or talking on the phone with you for free.

 

Why fake booking you may ask? They get off on the anticipation of the appt.. and never showup (we have lists that we share.. so believe me it's a very common fetish if you will).

 

Just yesterday a guy admitted to me over email that he wasn't booking (saving up to come see me from the US) for at least a year. He just wanted to check if I was for real. UGH.. waste my time and ask questions clearly posted on my site (for which he had filled out a booking form) So when he kept asking questions about my service and rates.. I had kept redirecting him to the site.

 

We can deal with a ton of time wasters. The gentlemen who clearly book and show up and are model clients assume often incorrectly that we deal with several similar clients regularly. Not the case.

 

Old pros like Christine and myself edit them out pretty quickly.. more and more. It takes time to hone this ability.

 

I don't think these guys are dumb. I think for sure some are.. lazy! but I'm guessing most are simply game-players and that includes rate negotiators. Either way.. too high maintenance for me.

 

re: WITS experience. I reiterate.. fake a migraine or what-have-you.. and walk away from sp gameplayers.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

I'm not a big fan of lying, so I'd never fake such an excuse. The provider could just conclude, upon hearing a transparent lie on my part, that I had simply been a time-waster from the get-go.

 

I have no interest in confrontations or drama, either. So afterwards, I sent a polite but clear explanatory PM to each of the providers in question. So they'd know, in a plain and straightforward manner, what I disagreed with and why. Without involving the risk of further compounding things with a threatening face-to-face situation.

 

Since I instituted my policy of asking for verification, however, I have not been faced with this uncomfortable situation again, and have not had my time wasted again due to this type of problem (my time is important to me, if to no-one else - they're not making more of it). Verification, for me, has successfully headed this whole hassle off at the pass. I am still hoping that sharing my experience and suggestion will help save others the time, gas-money, and sheer aggravation that I believe it has saved me.

[JoyfulC 132299]

(my time is important to me, if to no-one else - they're not making more of it).

 

Yep, that's how I feel too, only about people wasting my time asking me questions that are plainly posted on my site.

 

Verification, for me, has headed this whole hassle off at the pass. I am still hoping that sharing my experience and suggestion will help save others the time, gas-money, and sheer aggravation that I believe it has saved me.

 

Maybe it's worth making up a thread of it's own, rather than tucking it behind something completely different, where it might get overlooked. It honestly never occurred to me that anyone would do this.

 

A couple sites that have solicited my advertising have included fields for rates. I can see how someone could forget to go and change the rate on some such site. But still, one should honour her posted rates.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

I understand WIT that you don't want to lie.. but your other 2 options in that situation are to confront (which is highly undesirable) and the 3rd which is to go through with the session. Neither is a fun option. I get that.

 

I have to admit I've gone through with a session when I found a client trying to cheat me.. and it's 'only a 1/2 hr' will go through my head or ''only an hr''..

 

The problem with being cheated or lied to.. is there's no gracious way out of it.. that I've found.. and confrontation is the worst of the 3 for me.

 

I do like you do.. confront afterwards.. but not from a safe email distance. I do it right away now.. because I'm on my own turf. It's extremely unpleasant in any way.

 

I think the sps in your case(s) are unscrupulous business managers at best and thieves at the worst.. but that' just my opinion. I don't think a well worded email followup will do any good. The types of people who do such a thing count on guys being too polite to do anything about it. You have to scratch those up to TOFT (taking one for the team)

 

One time I had a guy (many years ago and long before cell phones and internet) book with me. Show up and then say he got paged to work as I answered the door.. A major 'I just wanted to see what you look like' and leave. He then booked me about a month later.. thinking I wouldn't remember him. I did.

 

I saw him for the appt rather than confront him. He said.. 'nice to have met you' as he left. I said.. 'actually we've met before.. and I'm not impressed'. Have a good day.

 

Sometimes how I handle a sneak depends completely on my mood. Had I been PMSing.. it might have been a completely different story. lol..

 

Another one showed up with about half the fee.. telling me some sob story about receiving a ticket earlier. After explaining to him that he wouldn't get any service from me and needed to pay me a cancellation fee for wasting my time.. which he refused. I warned him to turn around and I'd give him a kick on the butt as he left. which I did.

 

He later begged and begged me for an appt.. which I eventually caved in.. and he became an almost model client for several years for myself and 3 other fellow colleagues. They know who they are and who I'm talking about.

 

Might be a radical solution and a rare one.. but he never did that crap again. I was definitely in a pms mood. I'm a little ashamed to share that story.. but I also did the same thing to someone showing up with pot in exchange for my services instead of cash.. so yeah.. I guess not really that ashamed.

 

Sometimes being an ass gets you a boot right on it. (in my case a barefoot slap)

 

Hope that those stories add some levity to the situation. xoxo C.

[JoyfulC 132299]

Also, WIT, something probably you and many of the other decent customers here don't realize is that much of the time, when a guy wants to cheat us or put us in a position to have to negotiate from an unfair vantage, they hide behind playing dumb or having misunderstood.

 

I have actually had guys tell me that they looked everywhere and couldn't find any rates on my site. Or that the link to my rates page didn't work. Who do they think built and maintained my web site? I know exactly what's on it because I put it there. And I can investigate any claim of something not functioning.

 

Many years ago, I worked for an outcall massage business. Because of the laws in that state, the service had a fee, but wasn't allowed to say anything more than that tipping was allowed. Well, of course, the massage fee just paid for us to show up and give a massage. The tips were payment for the services the customers really wanted. It was necessary to do it that way, because of the law, but I hated it because I don't really feel it's ethical to negotiate with some poor dude standing there with a raging hard-on.

 

And so it isn't unnatural that I would find it unfair that someone shows up and tells me that he "misunderstood" or spoke with several people, and must have confused me with someone else, and then expecting me to play "Let's make a deal" because he's standing there, he already has my address, he's already blown this time slot for me, and he only has $100. Unlike Carrie, I prefer confrontation because I don't like to reward bad behaviour. It only encourages them to do it to another SP, and I feel some responsibility to my colleagues.

 

Like you, WIT, I believe in confirming when the appointment is made. But unfortunately, it doesn't always prevent the problem. A guy who is determined to try this scam is going to try it. He'll find some way of "aw, shucks"ing up an excuse for it.

 

And too, if you look at any of my ads, they all say OVER 40 ONLY. Almost every guy who's wanted to do this "what are your rates?" waltz with me turned out to be well under my age preference. So really, believe me when I say, I'm very frustrated over time wasters!

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Also, WIT, something probably you ... don't realize is that much of the time, when a guy wants to cheat us or put us in a position to have to negotiate from an unfair vantage, they hide behind playing dumb or having misunderstood.... So really, believe me when I say, I'm very frustrated over time wasters!

 

Not sure why you think I don't understand this. After all, my first post in the thread was made for the precise purpose of addressing the dilemma that this very problem creates for a serious and respectful client. Namely, how can a client ask for rate verification without simultaneously risking that the provider might mistake his question for the questions typically asked by a less-desirable client. My suggested solution was and is this approach:

 

... phrase your inquiry something like: "Please confirm that I should put $xyz in the envelope".

[JoyfulC 132299]

Not sure why you think I don't understand this.

 

Obviously I was so wrapped up in my own frustration that I completely missed this. Please accept my apologies.

 

Not that it's much of an excuse, but it's been very hot here this week, and I think it only serves to make frustrating inquiries all that much more frustrating.

 

 

Again, I'm very sorry. You are, of course, right.

[piano8950 32577]

Some potential clients that get in touch with me are though my website. On occasion, I have to deal with someone who is shopping around, and checking out 5-6 different photographers, with all tabs open, and a generic "Hey, I'm so and so, I need this, how much do you charge". This is despite me having the information available on my website.

 

Initially I would get a little confused, then realized how it looked from their end. A lot of them, if not all have no idea what to ask, how to approach me, etc. Now, thinking about how absolutely nervous I was when I first thought of seeing an MA, if the person who contacted you was going through the same thing, then common sense might not be readily available. At the end of my first session, I had such an amazing time, I told the MA that I'd photograph anything she'd like complimentary. It was later I realized how sketchy that offer probably sounded.

 

Anyhow, as for the people who ask for rates, or seem to ignore your website, it could be for a number of things. Laziness as you pointed out; you might just be one of a number of SPs they contacted, and quickly glanced over; they want to confirm the price again because of a previous bad experience; or common sense escaping them just because they are brand new at this and nervous because of it.

 

Either way, I can't begin to imagine the sorts of frustrations you go through, just thought I'd shed some light on what could be the cause of said frustrations beyond the obvious.

[Guest M**th**d]

This kind of bs. is no better than what Christine was just describing from the client she had. She was much kinder to him than I've been known to be. I have walked guys out giving them quite the tongue lashing when they do this to me..

 

In your case however.. you would have been better off to fake a migraine too! I wouldn't hand my hard earned money over to a sneak.

 

 

Mmmm tongue lashing.....oh wait I am guessing you werent referring to the good kind lol....sorry had to.

[northerntantra 4671]

Just curious, but has anyone (other than a regular client) who was short on the required fee ever made an effort to correct the mistake in a later session?

 

This question goes especially to Christine, but it would be interesting to hear other experiences.

 

Personally, I think the vast majority of people are honest. Yet most people won't pay back a store if a mistake is made in their favour. I wish there were stats on that. I did once read about an interesting survey done by Readers Digest involving lost cell phones though. The test was conducted in cities around the world, with some surprising results (68% return rate). Here's a link.

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/readers-digest-conducts-global-cell-phone-honesty-test-researchers-lose-mobile-phones-in-32-cities-and-two-thirds-are-returned----if-you-found-one-what-would-you-do-52760557.html

 

And this story has more about the less honest people, including a security guard who denied seeing the phone even as it was ringing in his pocket!

http://www.rdasia.com/the_reader_s_digest_global_phone_test

[sandimoon 72517]

I do sense Christine's frustrations, the sheer volume of those

who found me ON THE COMPUTER,

yet assume I am dumb enough to believe they can't see my site.

Uh....no.

But I am also a realist & don't suffer from the delusion that I am the only person a

gentleman has called or e-mailed.

I always make sure that my rate is out there somehow, just to be sure.

Give him a chance to hit the ATM if he hasn't enough on him or work out any misunderstandings before we are both embarrassed.

This

Just curious, but has anyone (other than a regular client) who was short on the required fee ever made an effort to correct the mistake in a later session?

This question goes especially to Christine, but it would be interesting to hear other experiences.

will never happen.

If my entire fee is not there, there is no first session much less a repeat chance.

I have a routine from which I never deviate & I make sure he has all the info.

Therefore I will assume it to be deliberate, insulting, I won't stay & he

gets a one way ticket to a blacklist.

And regular or not, the incidents of SPs sharing stories of,

"I can't believe I didn't count it before hand"

"he gave me a great reference"

"I've seen him for 3 years & now he won't respond to my e-mail, PM, text"

& other variations of never getting their money back are sadly numerous.

Besides, if you are a regular, you know how much I charge

so there is zero excuse to not have the whole fee.

To any SP thinking about trying this, don't.

The one time you think it will be ok will immediately precede

your self induced ass kicking afterward.

Sandi

 

[fortunateone 156618]

Because I don't care for confrontation, I always provide full info in the phone call about what I expect and the most they can expect.

 

However, I am phone call only, and there will be no excuse tolerated for info given at 2pm, arrival at 2:30 pm, and arriving short of sufficient funds lol.

 

What gets me is that the ads say location, age and stats, but one of those things is often the first question they ask. I prefer knowing that someone contacting a mature provider is very well aware of that before dialing the #, to save us both time if they are suddenly surprised I am not 25.

 

Conversations are always good, and always legal, so rather than allow anyone to assume they know what my rates/services are, I will always tell them right up front. I don't want them mistaking those things for someone else's any more than I want them to mistake my mature ad for the 25 year old's ad.

[JoyfulC 132299]

Just curious, but has anyone (other than a regular client) who was short on the required fee ever made an effort to correct the mistake in a later session?

 

This question goes especially to Christine, but it would be interesting to hear other experiences.

 

Yes, it has happened, but only because I remind them when they're confirming their next appointment.

 

I'm not convinced it's dishonesty at play, but I think if I didn't remind them, they would forget about it.

 

And I only bother to remind them if it's a significant amount.

[renegade 11027]

My rates depend on my location. I am always travelling and so sometimes my rates change. But here is some general information about my donations Mississauga - $220/h | $140/hh

Toronto - $250/h | $160/hh

Ottawa - $250/h | $160/hh

Alberta - $250/h | $160/hh

Saskatchewan - $250/h | $160/hh

Vancouver - $220/h | $140/hh

Victoria - $ 220/h | $140/hh

Fort Mac - $ 300/h | $220/hh

Saskatoon - $250/h | $160/hh

Regina - $250/h | $160/hh

 

She,s arriving in my city today and its not listed - what advice would you give me ? personally i,ll follow wit,s advice

[fortunateone 156618]

My rates depend on my location. I am always travelling and so sometimes my rates change. But here is some general information about my donations Mississauga - $220/h | $140/hh

Toronto - $250/h | $160/hh

Ottawa - $250/h | $160/hh

Alberta - $250/h | $160/hh

Saskatchewan - $250/h | $160/hh

Vancouver - $220/h | $140/hh

Victoria - $ 220/h | $140/hh

Fort Mac - $ 300/h | $220/hh

Saskatoon - $250/h | $160/hh

Regina - $250/h | $160/hh

 

She,s arriving in my city today and its not listed - what advice would you give me ? personally i,ll follow wit,s advice

 

 

 

I would assume 250/160, because it looks like she is from BC, which is why the rates are lower there? (Can't think of any other reason, because for Vancouver, the rates shown for all the other cities would be perfectly reasonable)

 

Since you are in MB, I'd just take the rates for all points east of BC, and assume that would be your rate. (And keep an extra 50 in smaller bills just in case)