"Pay what you think is fair" pricing -- would it work for us?

[JoyfulC 132299]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/17/lippert.qanda/index.html?eref=rss_topstories#cnnSTCText

 

Interesting article! But would it work for us? I'm interested to hear thoughts from hobbyists and SPs.

 

..c..

[Guest i***k***]

It's an interesting concept but I don't think it would work very well in this particular industry... I have a feeling a lot of guys would take advantage of being able to price the experience to save money. It would also cause animosity among SPs that are used to a certain price point but that are not getting it anymore.

[d*mm*y 887]

I know 2 very successful ladies that do this, they don't advertise online and they don't have computers. They run adds in the paper and word of mouth and have a booming business, they have bee reviewed from time to time on the boards and with happy clients.

 

The good thing about this business is unlike a coffee shop if someone comes along and low balls you you don't have to see them again, in the coffee shop you can't stop people at the door and say hay buddy you paid too little last time you can't come back in.

 

When the lady looks in the eye and says "you pay what think is right", or "you pay what you think is fair" then you are going to pay a reasonable fee. It does have to be done in a spirit of giving and not as a negotiation. As soon as you start asking what they want it gets mucky. Also I think it easier to determine the value after the visit but this goes against conventional SP wisdom, although both the ladies I mentioned collect after the appointment.

 

Personally this has always been my strategy anyway, I know the ladies say a price but if I feel it is too low I give them extra or top up with some cool gifts. If the lady is too expensive I just take a pass.

[JoyfulC 132299]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you must be joking....

 

I don't know. I think with some tweaks, it could work.

 

Have you seen all the people complaining on terb about prices being too high???! They would love this concept.

 

At first they might -- but they might also learn something from it too.

 

I think the cream would rise, and the rest would flush. For the simple reason that guys would quickly learn that any excuses they gave for not wanting to pay a full rate the first time may very well prejudice an SP against giving them another appointment.

 

In times like these, it might be better to have a situation like that than to have to drop your rates, indiscriminantly, across the board.

 

Then you have the hobbiests that think they should be getting paid by the SP because they think they pleasured the SP.

 

Yeah, I've met guys like that. I always tell them that maybe they should place an ad. I doubt I'll need their services, as between my personal life and my work, I'm good -- but I'd be happy to give them a review.

 

Then there are those that think there are people out there having one night stands for free, so why should they pay those rates for something someone does for free.

 

So... if that's the case, why are they using the services of SPs? Why don't they just go get a 1-night stand?

 

Then there are those hobbiests that show up and then trying to negotiate the price down.

 

Yep, met a few of them too. One option is to send them packing. Another, more deliciously evil, approach is to see them and give them the most amazing session ever. And take up the matter with them the next time they want to come back. (I've done this! Too much fun. ;) )

 

So how does an SP decide who to see, how do they trust that the clients they are seeing will pay them a fair rate and not cheat them?

 

That's a good question, but for many of us, deciding who to see is the big question anyway. Being selective would be as important as ever, of course. Asking customers who want to take advantage of this offer to verify might dissuade some of the cheaters, and keep us safer too.

 

But that said, the key here is "fair" -- if someone is out to cheat you, obviously they're not going to be fair with you anyway. I was trying to think of what some of the more legit reasons might be given for paying less than posted rates on the basis of fairness. Here's a couple I've thought of so far:

 

"Other girls charge this rate."

 

Well, that's true -- but why not see one of them then? Why come back to me?

 

"I'd pay you more if I could, but I just don't have it."

 

This is a tricky one, especially in a bad economy, when there are a lot of lay-offs and such. Obviously this is a luxury -- not an entitlement. Depending on how well you like the guy, you might want to either tell him that he'll have to do better if he wants to see you again. Or agree to see him at that rate but only temporarily -- say, revisit the rate in so many months, or if he gets another job. Or see if you can negotiate for something else that serves both your interests.

 

(My personal favourite: ) "Yeah, well, what about right now? You're not doing anything. At least if I came over, you'd make something, eh?"

 

Mm-hmm. But what if something better comes in and I miss it because I'm with you? Like my grandma used to say: if Prince Charming rides by while you're out back kissing frogs, you just might miss him!

 

When I read the article, my first thought was that while it was working for the cafe at this point in time, I don't think he'll get durable results with it. However, I think it could possibly work for us. I'm not suggesting anyone try it (or even saying I'd try it), but some variations on the theme might be to keep your published rates, but make it clear to a *qualified* customer the first time that he can pay what he feels is fair. If he pays less than your rates, then you know he either wasn't that impressed with you, or he's cheap, or he just doesn't have the money. All that's information you can use in deciding whether to see him again, or prioritizing him against other offers.

 

Another option might be to agree on a rate for an introductory session, but make it clear that subsequent sessions will be at full prices, if he wants to come back. I've actually tried this, and not only have I had people come back happy to pay the full rate after a discounted first session, but I was surprised to have met a few guys who could never have afforded me at my full rate, but also don't need anywhere near my full service or time. It can be a way of connecting with people you might otherwise have overlooked.

 

Pricing is something that has always fascinated me about the business. It's interesting to note that when I first worked in Toronto in 1982, my rate was $250/hr. Today, it's still $250/hr -- only it buys a helluva lot less! Still, I'm not entirely sure we can blame the guys for that. Sure, they're trying to get a deal -- and yes, some are trying to cheat us -- but often they're also just trying not to get ripped off. I've worked in other places and times when the pricing structures were extremely predatory and unfair to the customer (such as working on "tips" expecting a guy to negotiate with a hard on).

 

..c..

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

That's a really well thought out response, Joyful. Thank you for sharing it.

 

Pricing is always troubling, to me. I have posted rates, and I do get paid what I ask. But I don't charge returning clients as much as others, and I've given significant discounts to a few people at various times. If a regular said that he couldn't afford the fee, I'd probably lower it for him. But a new client whom I haven't seen before? No.

 

Similarly, I ask new clients to pay me when they arrive. Regulars, no. I've even taken personal cheques from a couple of them!

 

I decided to run a "special offer" for spring break because I have extra time available. I haven't noticed that it's made a difference in the number of contacts I've had. There could be a lot of reasons for that, though.

 

I have thought of offering first-time clients an "introductory" price, as you described. I'm glad to know this has worked well for you. I may give it a try.

[d*mm*y 887]

This may be off topic but I think it fits in to what some of you are saying. In the past I have witnessed SP's do a few very good promotions. The first one that I like a lot and a few around here are doing is the lottery One client a week gets a free hour or some variation. The second one I like is the every 4th visit is free or some variation again (could be 5th etc...) and I also very much like the monthly service fee (kind of like the gym or tanning salon) weekly visits for a monthly fee!

 

I have always found the pay what you want thing to be a little unnerving and I am sure that new people must be truly confused by it and the shy types probably down right intimidated.

 

I too have been fascinated with the business side of the business for a long time, but I guess that is because I am not a lofty thinker just a run of the mill paper chaser.

[etasman2000 15994]

I have thought of offering first-time clients an "introductory" price, as you described. I'm glad to know this has worked well for you. I may give it a try.

 

I've heard arguments against a lower "introductory" rate. It just means I would prefer being a constant "first timer".

 

I was told a long time ago: "There are no first-time clients, only first-time potential clients. When they repeat then they can be considered a client."

 

Lets talk about a 'fair' compensation.

 

What is a 'fair' compensation ? Without a comparison or baseline how do I know what is fair which is especially true to first timers.

 

Fair to whom ? To me or to you ?

 

Fair in which context ? By my ability or your bills to pay ?

 

Fair where ? For someone from Montreal visiting Ottawa ? Is it fair for him to compensate using his familarity of Montreal ?

 

I leave you with a final thought. Businesses have been known to use pricing as a differentiator, both to include only certain clients and to project an air of sophistication or worth. The same can be applied to an SP.

 

How would you replace this aspect of the compensation ?

[JoyfulC 132299]

I've heard arguments against a lower "introductory" rate. It just means I would prefer being a constant "first timer".

 

But what if you met someone who gave you a really terrific experience? Would you forgo seeing her a second time merely over money? I suppose some would -- but many more, it's been my experience, would be happy to pay a higher rate for subsequent visits when they know it's a sure thing.

 

(And when I experimented with this, ironically, I also found the reverse was true. The intro rate allowed certain customers to see me at least once who otherwise might not have been able to afford to do so. And a few of them, it turned out, I was happy continuing to accept the lower rate from as their needs were less than my typical clients and I liked them. So it works both ways.)

 

Lets talk about a 'fair' compensation.

 

What is a 'fair' compensation ? Without a comparison or baseline how do I know what is fair which is especially true to first timers.

 

Fair to whom ? To me or to you ?

 

If it's not seen as fair to both by both, then it's not fair. Plain and simple. If two people cannot agree on what's fair, then they're not for each other. Wouldn't you agree? (However, I would suggest to any SP trying this that in the event of a dispute over what's fair, she accept the customer's decision. If he wishes to return to her, then at that time, it will be up to her whether to accept it a second time.)

 

But you make a salient point regarding baselines. Pricing in our business is all over the road. I even read a thread on here last summer about someone who was charging $30. !!! There is absolutely no way that any SP who is supporting herself through this could match that rate. It isn't at all uncommon that we have to compete with people who essentially are not relying on this for their livelihood, and who are, basically, just looking to make a little "pin money."

 

Some ideas might be to have the SP publish her expected rates. Or another idea might be for an impartial third party (CERB?) to publish a median rate for an area.

 

I leave you with a final thought. Businesses have been known to use pricing as a differentiator, both to include only certain clients and to project an air of sophistication or worth. The same can be applied to an SP.

 

How would you replace this aspect of the compensation ?

 

But that's just the thing. I'm not suggesting replacing it, but rather, strengthening it. I'm not suggesting for a minute that any SP would have to take customers that she might not otherwise -- rather, I think being selective would be even more crucial under such a pricing structure.

 

And too, we also have a problem in our business with people slapping a high price sticker on themselves just because they think they can.And many of them do well with once-offs this way. The true measure of an SP, from what I can see, is her ability to generate repeat business. Such SPs should have no difficulty doing well under a "pay what you think is fair" or "introductory rate" pricing plan.

 

Really, I think this is a very exciting and worthwhile idea. I'd try it myself except I've been around a long time and I deal almost exclusively with regulars. If I see a new customer in a month, it's like woohoo! ;-)

 

..c..

[d*mm*y 887]

Different markets require different strategies. The reality is that the market is in a down turn and also we are in Ottawa and have a very "Walmart" approach to value. In a larger urban center you can have a better response to premium service (NYC, LA, etc...). Also in better markets you can produce incredible statistics by raising prices. When Mercedes Benz first came to North America they had a global price strategy, the MB240 was basically the same price as a Volvo 240 or a little but more than a Chevy. Over the early 80's MB started to gather a cult status among the US rich and famous and every time they increased their price they increased their market share! This reached a critical mass in the late 80's. Now if we look at MB and their current marketing they are all about the B and C class being price leaders.

 

Before you all jump on me about how I have not facts etc... I am just speculating based on other market research I have done on various products and services that I have considered and I do not think that High-end sales have ever done well in Ottawa, we have one Holt Renfrew and it is not stalked anywhere near as well as the ones in the larger centers around the country, our malls that have the third floor reserved for exclusive rodeo drive type business usually can't actually attract them and end up with far less than they aimed for. However Ottawa has a lot of dollar stores and Walmarts don't ya think?

 

I have known SP's that charge extra because the first visit is a minimum 2 hours and if they click they make a special rate for return visits, I think this strategy also works, if someone has the extra to pay the first visit and things click they probably have the financial means to repeat often, if the value is clear and obvious.

 

Sorry if I have gone off on a tangent and none of what said makes sense to you. I guess the bottom line is if Mercedes Benz can have sale you should not think any less of a lady that has a sale or makes a special offer.

[JoyfulC 132299]

I don't think anyone was implying that anyone thought less of someone who has a sale or makes a special offer. Although I don't think the "sale" strategy would work well for us -- after all, it's not like we're looking to get rid of last season's inventory here! I suspect that having sales would lead to guys holding out for them. As you note, Dummpy, Ottawa has a healthy contingent of bargain basement shoppers.

 

I know that my husband and I take very much this same approach to buying meat -- we know it will come on sale several times a year, so we wait until then to buy it. Not sure it would work as well with an escort, though, as we don't really freeze well! ;-)

 

..c..

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

I'll see how the "spring break" offer turns out. After wondering whether it would make a difference, I've now made three new bookings for tomorrow and Friday. Will they show up? Cancel or Postpone? I'll see!

 

Another tricky aspect of pricing is how much you want to work. Low rates attract more clients, but do you want to do a lot of volume? I don't offer half-hour sessions. It's not my style to be in a hurry. I prefer to offer a leisurely, relaxing experience to the client. It also takes time to be ready to see another client. I do just as much preparation whether the client is going to be with me for one hour or two. I'd do the same for half-hour meetings. In the end, I'd be less relaxed and less ready mentally to offer a great session if I felt I had to see five or six clients for half an hour each, every day. I'm not putting down anyone who gives this kind of service, it's just not right for me.

[etasman2000 15994]

But what if you met someone who gave you a really terrific experience? ...

 

..c..

 

my points were addressed saliently. i concur with your arguments especially regarding a geographically fair baseline.

 

on a personal note, i also use the compensation as a filter; too low and i would avoid, too high i might avoid. might because i am willing to save up for the experience.

[JoyfulC 132299]

my points were addressed saliently. i concur with your arguments especially regarding a geographically fair baseline.

 

The more I think about this, the more I like it. Maybe it would serve to post median, mode and hi/lo rates for various markets with a breakdown for subsegments. (...and I know how much Mod loves us thinking up new chores for him! Maybe he'll need some volunteers from the hobbyist community to compile this info. Hey Dummpy! ;) )

 

..c..

[buggernot 588]

I know that my husband and I take very much this same approach to buying meat -- we know it will come on sale several times a year, so we wait until then to buy it. Not sure it would work as well with an escort, though, as we don't really freeze well! ;-)

..c..

 

I think having a sale would have a much different effect when applied to escorting because you're right, they don't freeze that well (I have NO first hand knowledge of this by the way, just speculating!)

 

When I decide to see a SP, it's because I'm in the mood and have the time to do it. Just because the rates are slashed by 50% doesn't mean I'll wait for that time. And if it was a regular of mine, I would pay the same anyways. Because saying you are having a sale does give the appearance of a bad connotation that you are a commodity that, for lack of a better term, can be cheapened.

 

As far as the pay what you think it's worth thing goes, I can see it working for a restaurant atmosphere for some of the reasons it would not work for escorting. A restaurant is a public place where you can be 'shamed' into paying a reasonable amount instead of being a tightwad prick and leaving an insulting amount. I can think of a few instances where I have had atrocious service in a restaurant and rightfully left a purposefully insulting tip - but timed my departure so that the server doesn't pick it up until after I've left. I only do that after getting truly awful service, but still feel like I'm doing something wrong and want to avoid confrontation. Now take someone in private that doesn't care what you think and possibly objectifies women...could turn out to be a very bad outcome.

 

The other difference is we're talking beer and champagne when it comes to amounts. This is a place where you get a coffee and a sandwich...$10 average bill maybe? So you slap $5 down, no big deal, the owner is out $5 if it was a ten dollar tab. And there's 200 people coming through in the course of a day to make up for that. As an escort, if you only see 2 clients in one day and both give you less than your usual rate, that's it. And they probably would have paid full amount to begin with...

 

Who knows though...could work on CERB, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to see what would happen if you posted this kind of deal on CL!

[JoyfulC 132299]

So Cumquat, if I'm reading you right, you think it wouldn't work basically because too many hobbyists are sleezebags who would take advantage of it to rip SPs off by paying them rates that they know to be unfairly low? Perhaps you have a point.

 

Myself? I do have a lot of good regulars, and I'm pretty selective (even to the point of paranoid) about taking new clients, and so perhaps I sometimes forget that my average client isn't representative of the average hobbyist. (Frankly, many of my guys would overpay simply because they would never want to be viewed as being unfair, much less ungallant.)

 

There is something else your post has me wondering about, but I'll ask it in a new thread.

 

..c..

[A***** A***** 510]

I would have every idiot coming out of the woodwork and wanting to see me, considering where I live and the large east Indian population, thanks but NO thanks.

 

Props to those who can make it work, but its not my cup of tea

[C**** C***l 155]

First of all, don't get me wrong...I love this city!! I have to say though, if you think Ottawa is full of bargain basement shoppers....we are the wholesale capital of Canada...add to that a smaller population and trading area, double the number of providers compared to last year and fear-mongering media reports regarding the current economic crisis and you wind up with lots of unhappy hookers who are having trouble paying their bills...

 

The truly bizarre thing is that Winnipeg's local economy is NOT floundering...last month our real estate sales still increased bi 3% over the previous year and while we are not getting the bidding wars of 2007 and 2008, actual market prices haven't dropped...we are a city on the flat prairies that maintains a flat economy...we don't see the peaks and valleys larger Canadian cities see...

 

Fear plays a huge role in the slow down for Sex Workers here...however, my business has never been busier...part of that I will say is due to reputation, part is due to being one of the few Sex Workers to specialize in the Domme/Fetish trade, part is due to good marketing and putting creative strategies into place such as our Economic Stimulus Package , Frequent Pooner Program and Spa treatments with Joyful Conclusions!

 

So while we did slightly decrease our rates, add half hour sessions and non-fs options, we also keep things interesting...good thing it seems to be working :-D