Why have rates been stagnant for 25+ years?

[Guest gagagaga]

You are all dancing around the issue, and Dumpy and JoyfulC have come closest.

As a former marketing expert with a background in accounting, I will try to lay it out...

The SP market is an anomaly among almost all business as it relies 100% on discretionary income. The supply is always good, and the demand is always there. Trends may change for short periods (i.e. towards strip clubs or internet porn) but much like housing, supply and demand are always there.

Over the past 30 years, salaries have gone up drastically; average salary has increased approximately 300%. However, housing costs have increased 700-1000% depending on location, property taxes have increased 200-2000% depending on location, food prices have increased on average 200%, and gas prices have gone up over 400%.

What this means, is that even though salaries have gone up, the amount of fun money most people have has gone down drastically in proportion to their total income.

In an industry like housing, food, or gas, discretionary income is irrelevant because these things are considered necessities. Although many of the men on CERB would consider their fave sp's a necessity, if they dug into the grocery money to pay for it, the SO may have something to say.

So, the answer is simple, rates have not gone up or more accurately only gone up slightly because the market won't bear it...not because of supply and demand, but because of an overall decrease in discretionary income.

This lesson is now complete...our next lesson will be on the "Effect of the end of the Cold War on the Sex Industry"...kidding...unless this is needed

.

[buggernot 588]

Just from a personal perspective, on average I will not spend more than $200/hr. On occasion I would consider going as high as $300, but very, very rare. This puts therefined, elegant, educated, model type girls out of my hobby realm and that's fine, it's not what I want. The girl next door is just right for my enjoyment and my wallet and when they are asking $400-500, that's when I say no thank you. It's a luxury that will be missed but not essential...

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[JoyfulC 132299]

So, the answer is simple, rates have not gone up or more accurately only gone up slightly because the market won't bear it...not because of supply and demand, but because of an overall decrease in discretionary income.

 

Then how, exactly, do you explain the consumer boom and recent unprecedented levels of spending on entertainment, recreation and luxuries?

 

We're just coming out of a phase in which people had tremendous amounts of discretionary income -- and perhaps some of it was due to credit -- but they had it and were spending it. When some guy walks in with a Blackberry and he's wearing a gold watch and Tommy Hillfigger (sp?) underwear, and all Land's End clothing, sorry, I'm not buying that he just doesn't have much discretionary income. I don't dress like that because I'm too cheap! (and I don't even have a cell phone ;) )

 

..c..

[buggernot 588]

There certainly is more of a variety of crap to spend our discretionary income on now...maybe that's where a big chuynk of money is going? You got people walking around with iPhones and luxury cars that shouldn't have the means to do so, and a lot of that is on credit. I have yet to see a payment plan for SP's and not too many take credit cards ;) Maybe that's the business model you're looking for? Yeah, not going to happen!

Posted via Mobile Device

[Carrie Moon 68826]

I.. like Christine (not Joy.. that's not her name.. that's her site).. have been an escort since the 80's as well. I started at an agency because I had no idea about doing incalls until a fellow escort explained what it was. I never went back to an agency after that. I love being an independant for more reasons than just the money. Christine is quite correct in that a girl can be an escort for just an evening without any expenses other than a computer to advertise (or in some cases a friend's computer to put up her ad). This has definitely increased 'the supply'. Demand has also increased for the same reason supply has.. the internet which has already been covered. Both have increased as well because it is more socially acceptable to be an escort or see one than it was in the 70's and 80's. Personally the decline in business for me occurred when Nortel layoffs happened. The guys in the high tech industry had substantial discretionary income and also brought alot of visitors from the US up to see them. Then it was SARS. Girls started coming from Toronto to Ottawa. Similarly from Montreal to Ottawa. Many girls started touring because of the internet and the ease with which to advertise quickly. Some don't even rely on papers at all whereas this was my only tool in the 80's. Way too many factors to succinctly tie it up in one statement. Escort boards in the US tell a different story. Women there who don't want to get busted use the boards as a means to 'verify' clients. Online services do this for them as well and escorts use references. This was unheard of before the internet. In Canada thankfully the laws are more lax so we can relax and all try to see escorts and be escorts.. whether for an hour, a day, month or years. There are other reasons why the business hasn't garnered an increase in wages.. but I do recall going to Europe in the 80's just prior to getting into escorting and my fare to fly to London was the same as it is today. So for me that hasn't changed either despite gas prices rising dramatically. Sometimes the market won't bear much of an increase. btw. at the time I started escorting in Toronto. The outcall was 200/hr plus 40 for the driver minimum. It's much much less than that now.. certainly not more with the girls getting the same percentage. Oh and as for the Asian massage parlours in B.C. I hear the same thing in Toronto. Not at all sure about Ottawa's scene.. but it's like the dollarama. I shop there and don't think much about where it's made or how hard someone may have worked to provide it at that cost. A client sometimes will think only with his short-term consumeristic intent and may get a bargain.. but if he get's whatever is in the grab-bag.. he shouldn't then complain. 40-60 bucks doesn't give you the option of selection in my understanding at an asian parlour.

[JoyfulC 132299]

There certainly is more of a variety of crap to spend our discretionary income on now...maybe that's where a big chuynk of money is going? You got people walking around with iPhones and luxury cars that shouldn't have the means to do so, and a lot of that is on credit. I have yet to see a payment plan for SP's and not too many take credit cards ;) Maybe that's the business model you're looking for? Yeah, not going to happen!

Posted via Mobile Device

 

No, I'm not looking for that business model -- but then, it's not the retailers selling goods for a few hundred dollars looking for that action, it's the credit cards. Guys can -- and DO! -- get cash advances from the ATM machine to visit.

 

But you're absolutely right. People quote the "average" costs today for housing, transportation, clothing, food, communication, etc. but built into those "averages" is a lot of luxury spending. Don't think that isn't lost on me when some guy is telling me I'm the best one minute, and then complaining to me how much the overruns on his kitchen renovation or landscaping or the cottage he's building cost. I notice too that my clients -- guys who are used to luxury -- all manage to find the $$ for nicer cars, technology, vacays, etc.

 

My husband and I (admitted "thrift terrorists" since long before it was trendy to be so! ;) ) have bought three new cars since we were married in 1983. The most expensive one was a little under $13Gs. No airbags, no ABS, no a/c, no power windows, no moon roof, not even a radio. Definitely no status. It was basic transportation -- and yes, the cost of basic transportation has at least doubled since the early 80s. But the "average" price one of my clients spends for a new car isn't for basic transportation -- it's for the status, the luxury, the performance, and all the bells and whistles.

 

So nope, the argument doesn't hold water that people simply have less disposable income these days. They have it for anyone enterprising enough to charge them.

 

Unfortunately, for whatever reason (probably much like those I outlined a couple messages back), we as an industry failed to ensure our rates kept up with the cost of living. I'm not blaming the guys. It's entirely our fault.

 

And if we get the chance, I hope we won't make that mistake again.

 

..c..

(PS, and Carrie, you know what? I think the airlines have made pretty much the same mistakes we have all along. And it's killing them. It will be interesting to see what happens to them over the next couple years.)

[Carrie Moon 68826]

No, I'm not looking for that business model -- but then, it's not the retailers selling goods for a few hundred dollars looking for that action, it's the credit cards. Guys can -- and DO! -- get cash advances from the ATM machine to visit.

 

Ever since getting into porn and seeing ATM on the form of do's/don'ts I can't help but think of ass-to-mouth! yeuck

 

(PS, and Carrie, you know what? I think the airlines have made pretty much the same mistakes we have all along. And it's killing them. It will be interesting to see what happens to them over the next couple years.)

I hope the rates on the airlines stay low. My latest trip to St. Lucia was awesome and an all-inclusive for 1000.. but seeing the resorts mosly 1/2 empty was disheartening.. so on one hand I enjoyed the cheaper cost while on the other hand feeling bad about the locals economy suffering.

[buggernot 588]

Unfortunately, for whatever reason (probably much like those I outlined a couple messages back), we as an industry failed to ensure our rates kept up with the cost of living. I'm not blaming the guys. It's entirely our fault.

 

I think you're too hard on yourself as an industry and there was probably nothing that anyone could have done to change it. Whatever the mitigating circumstances that shaped the rates over the years were, they were too complex and grand in scope to be altered.

 

And that sounds very similar to this whole economic fallout we are in the midst of! Some incredibly intelligent and astute people could see that coming, but were powerless to do anything about it. Even the solutions that are coming about as a result could end up being more horrible choices that make things worse...

[buggernot 588]

Ever since getting into porn and seeing ATM on the form of do's/don'ts I can't help but think of ass-to-mouth!

 

That might be the next logical progression here...girls desperate for cash offering that and charging the same as everybody else. Then some others will follow...

[JoyfulC 132299]

Yeesh, what is this? High school?? Analingus is a pleasurable form of sexual teasing. Many many guys do it to me (including physicians and others in the health care field) -- probably 90% of the guys who go down on me do it -- and I'm not at all embarrassed to admit that I've returned the favour many a time. If it feels amazing to me, why would I want to deny that same pleasure to a partner?

 

Myself? I'm a sexual adventurer. I insist that my partners be human, adult, clean, and consenting. And of course, I will note that I am waaaaaayyyyy more selective than many of my friends in the business -- including you, Carrie. When you tell me about some of the people you see, I guess I can't blame you for being extremely restrictive and clinical. Hell, I wouldn't touch a lot of those guys with a 10-foot pole -- but I guess they've got money, and someone has to service them.

 

Further, there's no greater risk from analingus than there is from DATY, considering the proximity of the vaginal and anal orifices. If someone's keeping herself clean enough for DATY, then she's clean enough for analingus too. If you wouldn't consider putting your mouth on a woman's asshole, then you should perhaps rethink DATY. One hundred years ago or more, oral sex of any kind wasn't all that appealing because we simply didn't have the facilities for personal hygiene that we have now. But we do have them now. My advice to anyone, male or female, professional or amateur, is if it doesn't seem clean in any way, run like hell. SPs should be clean in their person and their environments. If you meet an SP and her place is a hell hole, then you'd be a fool to think she has higher standards for her personal hygiene, regardless of what she claims.

 

Buggernaut, can you be serious? Frankly, I always thought it was a bit hypocritical for an SP to only do certain things for extra pay. Either she's comfortable with it or she isn't. No one should do anything that he or she isn't comfortable with -- but too, if someone has a very narrow comfort zone, perhaps sex work isn't for her.

 

..c..

[a******s.m*****e 187]

ATM

(Ass to mouth) is a colloquial term for the removal of the penis from the passive partner's anus followed by the immediate insertion of the penis into the passive partner's or another partner's mouth.

 

anilingus

n. oral sexual stimulation of the anus by licking or kissing

 

(Babylon Dictionary)

[Carrie Moon 68826]

So sorry to have offended you Christine. That was not my intention.. ATM always makes me giggle now when I see it at the 711. After being in LA for a few months and filling out the forms over and over again of do's, don'ts.. with ATM clearly being in the columns of my don'ts.. since I don't do anal, DP it puts me similarly in a lower pay bracket than if I did. This is no different from one of the aspects that has been talked about here that certain acts put you into a different 'pay category' and that to stay 'current' you are encouraged to do them. I believe that if I offered full GFE or PSE I would indeed have more business.. How many phone calls do I get where I'm asked if I do anal and the guy goes on to someone who does.. or BBBJ... So to say I'm not choosy ... well you know that is not true. I'm choosing to see people who consistently respect my boundaries... in my body... in my home. We have both agreed that to offer something on a menu consistently is ridiculous.. I don't get girls who say they love to kiss? really?? every single person of the opposite sex or in some cases every person if they are bi? come on... everyone's mouth is appealing to you?

Again.. it was not my intention to offend your choices. BUT since we're discussing it.. I have to disagree that it's as clean as a vagina. It is definitely not. A vagina is a 'self-cleaning' oven.. and most physicians will even tell you not to douche.. as it messes up the flora. An anus carries bacteria that just washing won't ever make me secure.

[JoyfulC 132299]

So sorry to have offended you Christine. That was not my intention.. ATM always makes me giggle now when I see it at the 711. After being in LA for a few months and filling out the forms over and over again of do's, don'ts.. with ATM clearly being in the columns of my don'ts.. since I don't do anal, DP it puts me similarly in a lower pay bracket than if I did. This is no different from one of the aspects that has been talked about here that certain acts put you into a different 'pay category' and that to stay 'current' you are encouraged to do them.

 

I can't comment on the porn industry since I long ago decided that it wasn't for me. I have done a fair bit of amateur stuff for friends over the years -- and I have heard that these days, there are many female operated productions -- but back in the 70s when I first looked into it, it seemed to me like it was mostly about men trying to exploit that which god never gave them, and giving the women involved the smallest cut of the pie. (Even though, without the women, it wouldn't have happened.)

 

 

I believe that if I offered full GFE or PSE I would indeed have more business.. How many phone calls do I get where I'm asked if I do anal and the guy goes on to someone who does.. or BBBJ...

 

Yes, you'd mentioned that many times. But I think you are perhaps making more of it than is really there. For one thing, I probably could be said to offer GFE and PSE type sessions. Still, if someone asks me up front about it, sight unseen, more often than not I say no too. And I don't really think it's hurting my business all that much. I find that legit customers don't usually get into all that explicit stuff in advance because they realize, as we do, that it's pointless. As you say, who knows what will happen when two individuals meet?

 

So to say I'm not choosy ... well you know that is not true. I'm choosing to see people who consistently respect my boundaries... in my body... in my home.

 

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics. But like that guy last night? I'd have written him off about 6:15. ;)

 

We have both agreed that to offer something on a menu consistently is ridiculous.. I don't get girls who say they love to kiss? really?? every single person of the opposite sex or in some cases every person if they are bi? come on... everyone's mouth is appealing to you?

 

That's perhaps why it's not a good idea to commit to (or ask someone to commit to) anything sight unseen. BUT I also believe firmly that this is a service, and if you cannot give the customer what he wants, you shouldn't take his money in the first place.

 

 

Again.. it was not my intention to offend your choices. BUT since we're discussing it.. I have to disagree that it's as clean as a vagina. It is definitely not. A vagina is a 'self-cleaning' oven.. and most physicians will even tell you not to douche.. as it messes up the flora. An anus carries bacteria that just washing won't ever make me secure.

 

Yep, the anus does carry bacteria -- and unless you're seriously ill, it's the bacteria that mutually co-exists with us, and without which human life would not be possible. Trust me on this: when a mouth and an asshole come together, the mouth is always the dirtier of the two.

 

But that said, washing or wiping -- like housework -- can be done quite well or not so well. To think that none of the fecal matter from your ass ever finds its way into your labial area is silly. Yes, your deep vagina is self-cleaning -- but that's not usually where DATY occurs. (But if you meet a guy who can navigate such depths, PLEASE! Give him my number! :-p )

 

..c..

[buggernot 588]

Buggernaut, can you be serious? Frankly, I always thought it was a bit hypocritical for an SP to only do certain things for extra pay. Either she's comfortable with it or she isn't. No one should do anything that he or she isn't comfortable with -- but too, if someone has a very narrow comfort zone, perhaps sex work isn't for her.

 

A certain reality you're going to have to take into consideration is that there's a plethora of girls out there doing this work who only do it for the money, are pimped out, and/or have drug dependencies. If they need more money out of desperation and start becoming apathetic about the personal boundaries they set before, they will cross that line. And what happens as a result is that customers see how they can get more 'menu choices' for the same amount. They get more business and this will have a trickle down effect by siphoning into some other SP's client bases. You would hope that many of the clients would steer away from the girls with problems but, most of the time, they are completely unaware. I think a lot of them would be quite surprised actually. For you to say that no one should do anything that they're not comfortable with is correct, but unfortunately it does not reflect reality for some girls.

 

In regards to offering an extended menu for a higher rate, I don't see that as hypocritical. Some girls like anal sex, but it is a 'premium' service so they charge more for that option. If a SP simply advertises that she has no restrictions and the rates are the same no matter what, every client out there is going to want that from her.

[E.D. man 691]

Everyone has their own sexual preferences. I prefer a woman who has never done anal. I don't like my anal kissed or a finger up there.

My choice of an sp would most likely be one who does not do anal services.

I prefer a an sp who allows daty and dfk. These are a must.

So all men have their preferences as well as sp's or women.

Choice is a matter of preference and there is something out there for everyone.:boobies::smile:8)

[E.D. man 691]

Just from a personal perspective, on average I will not spend more than $200/hr. On occasion I would consider going as high as $300, but very, very rare. This puts therefined, elegant, educated, model type girls out of my hobby realm and that's fine, it's not what I want. The girl next door is just right for my enjoyment and my wallet and when they are asking $400-500, that's when I say no thank you. It's a luxury that will be missed but not essential...

Posted via Mobile Device

Well i have to down grade from my favorite sp as the economy sucks. So she will be my speciall occassion girl nowas she charges 300 an hour and worth every penny.

But i will be using the ones 200 and below like buggernot for an hour, who do non-rushed service. even if that means traveling to the southend ahhh.....:roll:

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

the argument doesn't hold water that people simply have less disposable income these days. They have it for anyone enterprising enough to charge them.

 

Bingo. You've said it all right there. It's a dogfight in the consumer marketplace. So much competition going on for a share of our disposable income. So many temptations and possibilities. Every time one buys the latest gizmo or fashion or jewelry or travel or any other high-end good or service, one is left with less to buy other things. All luxuries, in this sense, compete with all other luxuries. Individual purveyors of luxury must be enterprising in the promotion of their wares, or they will lose out. The bottom line is that, when all is said and done, a dollar spent in one place cannot be spent in another -- credit notwithstanding, in the end a limit will be reached. Choices must be made. The amount of total disposable income is a key factor in overall demand for (not "desire for" - but "practical demand in the marketplace for") the entire gamut of luxuries.

 

Obviously simple averages do not necessarily shed light on this or any particular thing. Life is way too complex and varied for that. But, for what it's worth, following are selected figures for Per Capita Personal Disposable Income for Canada (source: Statistics Canada):

 

1982 $10,665

1986 $13,413

1992 $17,022

1996 $17,782

2002 $22,121

2006 $25,819

(These are not constant dollars, obviously).

 

So if, say (going back to the start of this thread), the going rate for an escort was $250 in 1982, then the rate would have to be $605 in 2006, in order to maintain the escort's share of Canadian PDI for identical service rendered (so to speak).

 

Coming at it from a slightly different angle: according to the Bank of Canada's online Inflation Calculator (based on the Consumer Price Index), the price of the infamous "basket" of consumer purchases increased 205% between 1982 and 2006. While I do not believe there were any escort services included in Statscan's official basket, if we were to apply this overall Canadian CPI calculation to our escort starting at $250 in 1982, her rate would be $512 in 2006 to keep up with "official" overall inflation.

 

(As an aside -- a quick calculation using the above shows that the 242% increase in PDI between 1982 and 2006 would translate into an 18% increase in discretionary purchasing power, after allowing for the 205% inflation.)

 

I'm a believer in the effect of plain-vanilla Supply and Demand in any diverse marketplace (which is not to dispute the highly complex components of each of these things). This industry is not an industry of monopoly; there are innumerable providers and clients, with thousands of separate pricing/purchasing decisions being made every day across the country, and tens of millions of these decisions have been made between 1982 and now. It's in the interest of the providers to keep the price high, and in the interest of the clients to keep the price low; the actual market price is where the two meet in actual, mutually-accepted, transaction prices. On the whole, these millions of transactions have been agreed upon by smart people on both sides, with competitive information available, and without coercion. Given such a wide and diverse market, conspiracy theories and innuendo about market manipulation or overbearing social stigma or widespread supplier mismanagement ... don't ring true to me.

 

The advent of the internet has flooded the clients (and providers) with better information and a wider insight into available choices. This business is different from many others, in that (among other wonderful things!) the differentiation among suppliers is never purely price-based. All the suppliers are unique, and their ability to market and promote their individual uniqueness is the key to supporting their own price levels.

 

There is a natural resistance in the human psyche to paying increased prices for anything. In my former role as a professional buyer in a manufacturing industry, I have faced many declared price increases from suppliers ... that were then followed by rollbacks due to "price resistance". It's one thing to post an increase in prices, and quite another to make those new higher prices "stick" in the marketplace. A price increase often actually backfires, such as when it prompts a hitherto complacent and otherwise happy customer to start looking for an alternative supplier. Customers everywhere, and in all things, can and do vote with their feet.

 

This industry is obviously a viable one, and always will be. The ladies set their own prices, and presumably adjust those prices on an ongoing basis, depending on the resulting level of business or their changing preferences. Rates per hour are not low, by most measures. No new technology could ever make obsolete the interactions between real flesh and blood people with unique personalities. Perceived real value of these wonderful services will never decline, despite mundane and fluctuating monetary issues -- because human nature doesn't change. Gentlemen have always, and will always, respect, esteem, and love the ladies.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

Yep, the anus does carry bacteria -- and unless you're seriously ill, it's the bacteria that mutually co-exists with us, and without which human life would not be possible. Trust me on this: when a mouth and an asshole come together, the mouth is always the dirtier of the two.

 

But that said, washing or wiping -- like housework -- can be done quite well or not so well. To think that none of the fecal matter from your ass ever finds its way into your labial area is silly. Yes, your deep vagina is self-cleaning -- but that's not usually where DATY occurs. (But if you meet a guy who can navigate such depths, PLEASE! Give him my number! :-p )

 

..c..

 

I clean myself with a spray mixture of vodka/water.. as I won't use products made with rubbing alcohol which are toxic. I don't just wipe as that is pretty much a 'half-assed' job. You may find this a waste of good booze :) Getting e.coli bacteria by wiping from back to front is unfortunately a very common way for the uneducated female to get bladder infections. Certainly you are correct in that bad bacteria and good bacteria coexist and we need both. The problem is that most people are wandering around with a disproportionate ratio of bad to good. Bacterial vaginosis is rampant and common. Eating acidophilus (good bacteria) in yogurt helps and taking antibiotics frequently does not.. then women end up with yeast infections. Call me uptight as you have.. but I also do not enjoy being licked anally. However... I do like a great fuck as you know.. so I don't think I'm that uptight.. to each his own :)

[caveman 147]

I'm not an economist, so I can't claim to be an expert in all of this, but I do know that some prices have a ceiling simply based on what people expect to pay. This is especially true when it comes to services rather than goods. Getting an oil change (for a car, I mean!) costs around $30 at Crappy Tire, but you can't tell me it was significantly lower than that 20 or 30 years ago (I don't know myself, I wasn't getting oil changes--of either kind--30 years ago).

 

What it comes down to is that prices can only be raised as much as the market will bear. I suspect no single theory that has come out in this thread is the real answer all on its own, but most likely a combination of them all is getting closer to the truth.

[Guest f***2f***]

I'm not an economist, so I can't claim to be an expert in all of this, but I do know that some prices have a ceiling simply based on what people expect to pay. This is especially true when it comes to services rather than goods. Getting an oil change (for a car, I mean!) costs around $30 at Crappy Tire, but you can't tell me it was significantly lower than that 20 or 30 years ago (I don't know myself, I wasn't getting oil changes--of either kind--30 years ago).

 

What it comes down to is that prices can only be raised as much as the market will bear. I suspect no single theory that has come out in this thread is the real answer all on its own, but most likely a combination of them all is getting closer to the truth.

 

actually it was significantly lower than that....I worked in a garage as a teen 35 years ago and the labour rate was $8 per hour....it is now over $60,,,(this is not what the mechanic gets but is padded to cover overhead) A quart of oil in those days was a lot cheaper than it is today as well. I can't remember exactly the cost but it was a cheaper than that. (I made $1.85 per hour to work the stock room....cigarettes were .50 a pack....a 24 of beer was $5...a teen burger was .89...I don't know what sps charged as I got a lot of free sex in those days!...sigh the good old days)

[Carrie Moon 68826]

re: an oil change. I think it's a way to get people into the garage so that they can then tell you what other services you require.. so that's probably written into the cost of not increasing it. That seems to be part of the pricing equation. Mechanics can answer that for sure though..

[misterdynomite30 174]

re: an oil change. I think it's a way to get people into the garage so that they can then tell you what other services you require..

 

Hrmph!

 

Just to be fair, The same could be said about escorts overcharging just so they can sneakily add tips to their price in case they don't get a tip at the end of the service.

 

btw im a mechanic and even though i don't take offence in you comment... i still have to say "shame on you" for that ridiculous generalization that us mechanics use an oil change to exploit and find other problems with your car. sheesh. lol

[cat 262460]

Sitting and reading this thread made me smile as I have sat and pondered this many times. 1985 was my first year working. My rate was $200/hr. The majority of my clients still pay that. I have had years where my fee was much higher but it wasn?t in Canada.

 

I agree with Christine that there is a price ceiling. I feel it is generated by a combination of self and societal beliefs. The discretionary income is there, I see it every day. The challenge is that we are not a recognized industry and there is no organization amongst us to speak of. The women who make up our ranks have such vast differences in work ethics and expectations that it makes it impossible to set an industry standard for either service or fees. Unions have ensured our tradesmen are given a set wage and benefits package and even full time food service workers are given benefits packages. There are standardized base salaries pretty much across the board for all occupations that require certification. There is also an expected commitment to working a set number of hours per week depending on whether you are full or part-time in a recognized profession.

 

Our business is completely different. Women can work as often or as little as they want. They can set their own rates depending on their expectations or needs and never think about ?undercutting? someone else. There are no rules. Every legitimate small business owner has to operate within guidelines dictated by our government; ie taxes, employees, licenses and codes. We have nothing.

 

The mismanagement of rates is not an individual issue. Independents run their business as best they can with the current legislation in place. Until it changes and we can start organizing as an industry our rates are subject to the whim and fancy of our guests. I have always believed that there should be mandatory training that covers the gamut of challenges we face. Too many women get involved without the proper information at hand and it puts everyone at a distinct disadvantage. There needs to be some sort of accreditation. If women had a clear understanding of the toll this business could take on them, the rates they set would reflect the physical, emotional and spiritual costs involved.

 

It is a challenge that will only be changed when we are given the same basic rights as other Canadians and who knows when that will be. Until then, those of us who have committed a lifetime to this business need to make sure their money management skills rival that of Warren Buffet or else they will wake up one day with little to show for the years of hard work?

 

Catherine

[Guest f***2f***]

Good to see you back on the board babe!! you always write so well!!:mrgreen:

[JoyfulC 132299]

A certain reality you're going to have to take into consideration is that there's a plethora of girls out there doing this work who only do it for the money, are pimped out, and/or have drug dependencies. If they need more money out of desperation and start becoming apathetic about the personal boundaries they set before, they will cross that line. And what happens as a result is that customers see how they can get more 'menu choices' for the same amount. They get more business and this will have a trickle down effect by siphoning into some other SP's client bases. You would hope that many of the clients would steer away from the girls with problems but, most of the time, they are completely unaware. I think a lot of them would be quite surprised actually. For you to say that no one should do anything that they're not comfortable with is correct, but unfortunately it does not reflect reality for some girls.

 

The sad thing here is that you seem to make the assumption that the only reason an SP would perform certain acts is out of desperation. That's more than a little subjective, eh?

 

I guess I see it as being the other way around. True prostitutes -- women who are professional sexual guides -- tend to be people who are open-minded, well-informed and therefore better-equipped to take calculated risks, and care about delivering (sharing even) a quality experience with her patrons that lasts well beyond the bounds of their encounter.

 

Yes, there are many women who are in this just for the money, and many of them are desperate -- but those are actually the ones who seem most likely to be looking for reasons to be restrictive, often resorting to shame and fear-mongering to dissuade customers from expecting anything that they wouldn't feel comfortable providing, no matter how reasonable a request may be. I will agree with you, however, that it's these same SPs who are most likely to make decisions on the basis of how attractive they find a customer (for example, kissing or doing bbbj with someone they view as "hot" but not with someone they view as "not") or charge extra for certain acts.

 

In regards to offering an extended menu for a higher rate, I don't see that as hypocritical. Some girls like anal sex, but it is a 'premium' service so they charge more for that option. If a SP simply advertises that she has no restrictions and the rates are the same no matter what, every client out there is going to want that from her.

 

It simply doesn't work that way -- although, sadly, I think that's what many SPs believe when they can't generate sufficient repeat business or when business slows down. The money-driven SPs actually benefit from the true prostitutes in the business because, for men, variety is the spice of life. Men who've enjoyed truly satisfying experiences will go looking for others -- even if many result in a less-than-satisfactory or downright disappointing outcome. The thing is, they know true prostitutes are out there -- and their nature sends them searching.

 

I agree with you, though, that there are many women who are in this business just for the money, and have little more than disdain for any customer who doesn't have the decency to be "easy." (This is a euphemism among SPs for customers who stay on their side of the condom, pay in full and leave early.) And that's a huge problem with our business -- I don't know if other businesses have the same thing. Take accounting, for example -- is the accounting industry beset by people who are only in accounting for the $$, but actually don't want to do anything more than than the most basic work, shaming any customer who dares to ask for something more exotic?

 

..c..