Newbie64 439 Report post Posted August 11, 2012 I am a new hobbyist and live in Ontario. From my read of this board the law against being a "found in" at a brothel is still on the books and could be enforced by local police departments until the Supreme Court of Canada decides. Am I correct? Outcalls are 100% safe from me being arrested - correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest L**gh M****e Report post Posted August 12, 2012 Couldn't have said it any better backrubman...very well done! This is what I've been trying to explain on boards but it comes out somewhat avasive. Not that I'm a blonde, I'm just no good at explaining things and others take me the wrong way. A definite best lick for you! Lee xoxo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ou**or**n Report post Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Everyone finds their own level of comfort in how they see ladies. Personally I'll see an established indy at her incall location or hotel. I'll also see agency girls in hotels. I stay away from the massage parlors and condos that are used by Asian agencies. This is because whenever I have read about any guys being charged as found-in it is at these types of location. The raids tend to stem more on immigration issues and human trafficking rather than straight up concerns about bawdy houses. This may be a generalization but it is my own personal decision. If you want to be 100% safe on the bawdy house issue then stick to outcalls. Edited August 12, 2012 by Ou**or**n Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamanthaEvans 166767 Report post Posted August 12, 2012 OutForFun is correct. The Asian micro-brothels, in particular, are the places to avoid. They are targeted by law enforcement because of concerns about human trafficking and immigration violation. If you're new to this, you may want to be cautious about ads placed by Asian providers in the free or very cheap advertising sites. Ads for incall meetings that appear to have been posted by singles or duos priced at the low end of the spectrum are frequently postings by micro-brothels. This is a very broad generalization, though! Inexperienced independents often underprice themselves; some believe that they need to undercut the market in order to attract business. Just because someone's rates are lower than others does not mean she's a bad risk, at all. Everyone is entitled to set their fees as seems best for them. My point is that it may be difficult to know from the ads whether the woman featured is actually an independent or working in a microbrothel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Keep in mind there is, maybe not legally, but in reality, a big difference between a lady who discretely operates her business as an incall. Seeing perhaps one, or two clients a day at her home/condo or hotel isn't going to raise eyebrows. That versus a brothel, or a lady having a steady stream of clients morning to night, that will raise eyebrows, and likely draw LE attention Also, if a lady operates her incall discretely, how is LE going to determine whether she is in fact a SP seeing clients, or a woman meeting her boyfriend, something which is legal (yes, ladies are entitled to have relationships/social life too) Actually how is LE even going to know. The effort LE would need to take to determine that would be costly (warrants, wiretaps etc) and not worth their effort. Their concern, in reality is more street level prostitution, and concerns about things like human trafficking. Now if really concerned, stick to outcalls at your hotel. That is legal. But also keep in mind to be discrete. See maybe one lady a day. Don't draw attention to your stay. One lady seeing you no eyebrows raised. But if you have a steady stream all day long of ladies seeing you, well that could raise eyebrows, and possibly a call to LE, and you charged with keeping a common bawdy house. BTW I'm not 100 percent sure on the law on this, but I do believe this is the case. But as has been mentioned earlier, stay away from massage parlours and incalls run by asian (well any) agencies. They are very likely on LE radar and there is a risk to being raided Some ramblings RG Edited August 12, 2012 by r__m__g_uy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Athos 108589 Report post Posted August 12, 2012 I think you're dead on RG. The cost of enforcing bawdy house laws against Indy escorts simply makes it prohibitively expensive. The police are interested in street prostitution, bawdy houses where there may be human trafficking or drugs involved, and locations that result in community complaints. Porthos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie64 439 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 Very good information. I would assume the more expensive ladies are the best bet as they don't need a steady stream, are more selective as the clients are higher end and have low risk. I assume STD risk is also lower as the girls are smarter being independent and think well enough about themselves to price their time accordingly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Studio 110 by Sophia 150333 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 I have been operating Incalls for a few years, never had any kind of bad attention so far. Keep in mind, I only allow a few appt daily, during daytime hours only( unless hotel location till 12) I am sure at least one time at another location, I was visited by a person. This person wanted to see my environment before booking.....said cause he had been to other places that were shady....So at first I hesitated, thinking to myself this seemed strange. But then thought...hey why not! If this is an investigation type thing, then he will see I operate safely, clean and with no negative attention. The fellow came in, looked at how many shoes I had at the doorway, said" ohh I see you have no children living here" commented on how clean and organized I was, Looked in the bedroom, said" very nice" then he goes on to say" than you for letting me see your place, I can see you run a clean place, will contact you another time for an appt"... then left! So I always figured that this was someone checking to see how I worked, etc... also at this time another agency was busted for having minors working and much drug activity. suffice to say, I think I passed the test, because I never have been bothered at all! Just think you got to keep in low profile, elite and under covers so to say.... Just keep on the down low....keep it clean..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Athos 108589 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 The fellow came in' date=' looked at how many shoes I had at the doorway, said" ohh I see you have no children living here" commented on how clean and organized I was, Looked in the bedroom, said" very nice" then he goes on to say" than you for letting me see your place, I can see you run a clean place, will contact you another time for an appt"... then left! ..[/quote'] but did he call to book????? Fool if he didn't!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PistolPete 61421 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 Perhaps they can be, then again I think they are not, that is my own personal opinion, after all that's all I have done over my years is in calls. I can safely count on two hands the number of times that I have got a room a did a out call. I can also tell you I never has attended "John" school. It is entirely up to yourself WHAT you really feel comfortable doing. I am a new hobbyist and live in Ontario. From my read of this board the law against being a "found in" at a brothel is still on the books and could be enforced by local police departments until the Supreme Court of Canada decides. Am I correct? Outcalls are 100% safe from me being arrested - correct? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
backrubman 64800 Report post Posted August 16, 2012 OutForFun is correct. The Asian micro-brothels, in particular, are the places to avoid. They are targeted by law enforcement because of concerns about human trafficking and immigration violation. That's a good point Samantha but I wonder that even if one was in such a place and a police raid carried out at the same time as you were there having to do with human trafficking and/or immigration and even charging the operator under section 210. (1) "Every one who keeps a common bawdy-house..." I don't think the clients of such an establishment would be charged with anything? That said, police do have the right to demand identification, take note of this information, maybe even question you as to what you know about what was going on there and "ask" for a statement and that information finds it's way into the engine but I don't see them being arrested also or charged, just embarrassed and hugely inconvenienced? Anyone have any experience with this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted August 16, 2012 Very good information. I would assume the more expensive ladies are the best bet as they don't need a steady stream, are more selective as the clients are higher end and have low risk. I assume STD risk is also lower as the girls are smarter being independent and think well enough about themselves to price their time accordingly. It depends what you mean by "expensive" ladies. My hourly rate is reasonable and I am not high volume, and I get checked regularly, so I urge you not to make assumptions. But you are right, the higher the traffic to one's incall, the more risk in either case (LE and STD). However, having said that, I have been providing incalls for over 10 years and I have never had a problem, because I work smart. Low traffic, proper screening and not just taking anyone and keeping decent hours and being mindful of your surroundings are all factors. Believe me LE has more important things to do than worry about a lady who keeps to herself without any involvement with underage or trafficked persons, drugs, loud noise or other other laws being broken. In short, incalls are only as risky as the reputation associated with the SP providing them. Stay away from the "hood" after dark and you should be fine. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted August 17, 2012 That's a good point Samantha but I wonder that even if one was in such a place and a police raid carried out at the same time as you were there having to do with human trafficking and/or immigration and even charging the operator under section 210. (1) "Every one who keeps a common bawdy-house..." I don't think the clients of such an establishment would be charged with anything? That said, police do have the right to demand identification, take note of this information, maybe even question you as to what you know about what was going on there and "ask" for a statement and that information finds it's way into the engine but I don't see them being arrested also or charged, just embarrassed and hugely inconvenienced? Anyone have any experience with this? I think charges for clients are pretty rare, and the only circumstances I know of where it gets mentioned is in massage parlour or micro raids. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that a decision is made to not press charges, because during a raid they are just collecting evidence, and they would have to decide if something like that is even worth pursuing when they have so many other people to charge. I think usually their main focus is on either nuisance (street work/public solictation) and safe work environment (so shutting down trafficking, illegal operations, living off the avails, exploitive working conditions, people working illegally, etc) In Richmond, BC, a massage parlour was investigated, and found a nude mp and client in one of the rooms. I think he's fortunate not to get charged, because then his name would be all over the internet on the stories, because the media sure loved to write about the naked man wearing only a condom lol. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
backrubman 64800 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 In Richmond, BC, a massage parlour was investigated, and found a nude mp and client in one of the rooms. I think he's fortunate not to get charged, because then his name would be all over the internet on the stories, because the media sure loved to write about the naked man wearing only a condom lol. True, but it still leaves me wondering what the charge would be if he was charged? 210 (2) Everyone who ... (b) is found, without lawful excuse, in a common bawdy-house ... is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. So when we research the meaning of "lawful excuse" we find there is no definition, oh sure you can't point a firearm at someone with "lawful excuse" but to me being in a common bawdy-house to see a prostitute is in fact a very lawful excuse for being there as prostitution is not illegal in Canada. I admit lots of legal experience in other areas but not with this area of law, must be missing something :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamanthaEvans 166767 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 True, but it still leaves me wondering what the charge would be if he was charged? 210 (2) Everyone who ... (b) is found, without lawful excuse, in a common bawdy-house ... is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. So when we research the meaning of "lawful excuse" we find there is no definition, oh sure you can't point a firearm at someone with "lawful excuse" but to me being in a common bawdy-house to see a prostitute is in fact a very lawful excuse for being there as prostitution is not illegal in Canada. I admit lots of legal experience in other areas but not with this area of law, must be missing something :) A "lawful excuse" is going to apply to being the gardener, mowing the lawn at the time of the raid, or the laundry service guy, dropping off a load of clean sheets. It's not going to apply to a client of the establishment. It's not lawful to go to a bawdy house and partake of the services offered there. While prostitution, in and of itself, is legal, working or being found in a bawdy house is not because the bawdy house itself is illegal. Technically, I operate a bawdy house because I see clients in my home more than occasionally. But, as others have pointed out, since I'm working alone, keep very respectable hours, create no noise, traffic problems or anything else, there's no reason for anyone to notice what I'm doing or to be concerned about it if they did notice. Indeed, when I reported my stalker to the police a year ago, the officer was abundantly clear with me that the VPD didn't care a feather about what I'm doing as long as it's not disturbing anyone. The micro-brothels get raided because they can't operate with the kind of discretion that an independent, solo companion does as a matter of course. A lawyer I know told me about a guy who retained him after being charged for being found in a micro-brothel that was actually an old West End mansion with half a dozen girls working there simultaneously. None of them spoke more than rudimentary, very broken English. They charged the men who were found in the place, but subsequently dropped all the charges. Laying charges, it seems, was a way to pressure everyone in the place at the time to divulge whatever information they had. Since the majority of the micro-brothels' clients tend to be Asian men who usually speak the same language as the working ladies, this kind of police tactic makes sense. My friend's client, however, is not Asian. In Vancouver, there's also at least one spa and a separate escort agency which are operated by the Hell's Angels. This is not a secret. The spa hasn't been raided anytime in the last few years that I know of. There are probably several reasons for this, first among them being that they don't openly employ trafficked women. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 I do think if the raid on a bawdy house was done because of concerns over human trafficking, anyone in that bawdy house should expect to be leaving...in the back of a crusier handcuffed. Any questions would be done at a police station. And I don't think the police would be looking at owner or client in too kind a light. To the police, justifiably so, in a case of human trafficking, see only those who have been trafficked as the victims. Any owners and clients, well to the police, they are the problem. The police may use the common bawdy house provision as legal grounds to conduct the raid and arrest people inside, but it would only be part of a much larger investigation into human trafficking And anyone arrested, or even just questioned by police under such circumstances, you'd better be calling a lawyer first. No matter how polite a police investigator seems to be, they are investigating a case and looking for evidence to lead to convictions. Your only friend at that point is your lawyer Better yet, stay away from bawdy houses that look like they would be targets of LE to begin with A rambling RG 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wallace48 571 Report post Posted September 17, 2012 I think such an arrangement is not only safe but desirable from a law enforcement point of view. So much better to remove these activities from the street and so much safer for the girl. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
websurfer 680 Report post Posted October 5, 2012 I'm new to this so I need lots of advise. First off I assume outcalls are less risky? So wiser to go with an outcall in a hotel? Second I live in Mb so what kind of trouble can I get into if I'm caught? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted October 5, 2012 Outcalls are legal. Find a nice hotel and have the lady meet you there What kind of trouble, well no police problems, your not breaking the law. The only trouble I could foresee is if you are married and your wife finds out. Be discrete at the hotel. Just check into the hotel normally, don't announce to the hotel desk staff why you are there LOL, don't give any staff a reason to suspect you are seeing a escort. That said, remember hotels are in the business of booking rooms, that's where they get their money...you are one in hundreds of customers a day, normal for hotel staff to see. Go with the outcall, and enjoy your encounter RG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted October 5, 2012 There's LOTS of advice here, if you read around a bit. Start with the sticky threads in the "New To This" section, and explore from there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
websurfer 680 Report post Posted October 6, 2012 Do they ask you why your there? What should I say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted October 7, 2012 I have been seeing escorts outcalls in hotels for a long while. Nobody asks me why I am there when I check in, though sometimes (when it is my first time in that hotel) they ask me why I leave so early (I check out 2-3 hours after I check in and that arises some questions). I just remind them that I am paying the full fee (I guess they suspect I check out early to avoid paying in full), or they just ask to make sure that everything has been okay with the room. Seeing escorts outcalls is legal as we speak so nothing will happen if you are caught as long as no illegal activities like drugs are taking place. PS - This is for 4 or 5 star hotels. I don't have experience with 2-3 star hotels or motels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ou**or**n Report post Posted October 7, 2012 Some hotels have an automatic checkout. Just leave your keycard on the bed and leave. They have no idea if you left at 11:00am that morning or 8:00pm the evening before. All depends on the hotel. Hotels are in the hospitality business, their job is to be discrete. I don't think I've ever been asked why I was checking in or out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
websurfer 680 Report post Posted October 7, 2012 Well I feel a little nervous, I mean yes me hiring an escort is legal but the fact that we would be having sex could be an issue, ofcourse it's a donation I am giving her so that kind of take's care of it. But if we get caught by cops and they confirm money has been traded for sex what can happen to me, like charges and length of time in jail? Also if you did get into trouble how many women did you see before your luck ran out? ???? So far from what I'm hearing this is pretty safe thing to do and with all the feedback I am getting I hope to have my first experience without worry or fear of getting busted. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135640 Report post Posted October 7, 2012 Well I feel a little nervous, I mean yes me hiring an escort is legal but the fact that we would be having sex could be an issue, ofcourse it's a donation I am giving her so that kind of take's care of it.But if we get caught by cops and they confirm money has been traded for sex what can happen to me, like charges and length of time in jail? Why not read the laws (section 212-214 crimnal code) prostitution is legal (paying or sex) you just need to do it right. No picking up streetwalkers or discussing anythng in a Public place, no usng a common bawdy house (brothel) and make sure the lady is over 18. ....and Stop watching american tv and movies too you live in canada! We do not have the same laws. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
