Against Sexual Exploitation

[VedaSloan 119179]

You go girl! The more you talk/type the more I like :grin: BTW great taste in glasses, my Gucci frames are similar to yours ;) Great minds think alike

 

Thank you ma'am! :)

[Miss Maria 199]

I

 

We have to differentiate between the two.

 

As far as abolitionists are concerned, I think we should just let them talk, nobody takes them seriously. In every country, even in the US where prostitution is illegal, it is widely tolerated.

I think that most governments consist of men, and men understand their fellow men's need for this service. :)

Once in a while they punish one that is stupid enough to get caught, like Eric Spitzer, but not because he is using the service, but because he is so stupid that he endangers other people's fun.

 

I agree with you completely that these moralistic people can talk and talk, they still don't make sense. How can they say that I am exploited and a victim when I certainly do not identify as one.. Maybe I am sooo stupid I don't get it yet that I am a victim? No, I am just a woman who appreciates and enjoys her sexuality and who doesn't mind sharing it and make a living at the same time!

 

The big problem is that My money as a tax paying citizen, is recently going to organizations who are abolitionnists and who have this idea that Sex work is not work but exploitation. They are the ones getting subsidies for researches, therefore the researches are biased. I do not agree with that and I do think we have to stand up and face them, or at least tell our side of the story and aim for objective research in this field.

 

:)

[Annessa 22743]

had to light a late night smoke before writing this post. who the hell do these people think they are????

 

it REALLY pains me to think that people like this are getting grants for their "research" only to give their "informed results" as twisted views of their own opinions.

 

I had a similar conversation with a close guy friend when he found out I was working. he immediately felt sorry for me said things like"

 

"if you had a man treating you with respect, you wouldnt be doing this!"

"Why would a girl like you who has the means to be doing anything else be degrading yourself to all those perverts???"

 

i told him (in less polite words) to 'go away'

 

people think that if we actually like our jobs that we need therapy.....and that we're being used by macho men to fulfill their dirty sexist power needs

 

what about male-escorts? do you think that the ripped male SP is looked upon or pitied in the same light as that?

 

I'm infuriated that the hotlines and SVU officers etc that have cared and helped people like us without judgment or empowerment have been the first that organizations like CLAP will frown upon....they tell us our rights of the criminal code...keep us informed and give us the power to do what it is we do without shame

 

CLAP (which if they really cared about their message would offer their lectures in english AND french...especially if they were hosting it on Bank street and not over the bridge) seems just out to force their opinions without listening.

 

I'm happy I didnt show up to this today because I have a very short fuse this evening....but next time, let me know Erin and I will be there telling these idiots (IN FRENCH) that they can "sucer mon trou du cul"

 

 

xo Annessa

[VedaSloan 119179]

It was an event being put on through the Women's Studies department at the University of Ottawa. They just assume everyone is bilingual.

[Annessa 22743]

It was an event being put on through the Women's Studies department at the University of Ottawa. They just assume everyone is bilingual.

 

thats truly sad :-(

[YoungStud 468]

I agree, Annessa. Often it's the smug, pretentious, arrogant upper middle class "pseudo-intellectuals" with little or no life experience who can be among the most bigoted people ever. And not just on women's issues, but on issues of race and language and class as well. Because they know better than everyone else what's best for everybody. Kind of like that funny-looking guy with the mustache in Germany a few decades ago.

[YoungStud 468]

BTW, Erin had mentioned this organization in her footnotes for "sex work fact sheet part 1" post:

 

http://peers.bc.ca/

 

I think they have an excellent web site and some very interesting ideas.

 

Subject of an interesting CBC Radio Sunday Edition documentary last year (April 20), on their plan for a coop brothel. Unfortunately, doc not available for download.

[VedaSloan 119179]

That'd be so rad. I really wish there was something like that here. I think that sex workers face a lot of isolation and if they had a legitimate "workplace" where they could work and hang out and socialize with each other, that'd lessen that isolation.

[JoyfulC 132299]

It's tragic that the point that these people miss is that _any form of slavery_ is inhumane. It doesn't matter what a person is forced to do.

 

Years ago, I had a friend whose father, an East Indian, was forced at the point of a gun by the Japanese Army to teach Japanese to Indonesian labourers during WWII. Others were forced to perform as doctors, nurses, cooks, teachers, farmers, lawyers, labourers -- all jobs that people might choose for themselves freely, but still slavery if one is forced to do it beyond his or her free will.

 

I agree that the people involved in these anti-prostitution groups have little regard for the actual OPINIONS of those of us who choose prostitution. I also agree that they'll have about as much luck shutting prostitution down as they'll have shutting sex down.

[ulixestrojan 3757]

Erin,

 

Richard Poulin is a frustrated old Marxist who has been trying to reinvent himself since the collapse of the soviet union - from what I remember of his work, sex work is an example of capitalist exploitation and a further commodification of the bodies of women.

 

Peanuts any one?

 

 

 

I think what bothers me most is that they do this under the guise of feminism. If you care so much about equality and the rights of women, you should be helping to decriminalize it, not pushing for the expansion of criminalization.

 

I don't care if they patronize me, I don't care if they talk down to me, I know they will, I've heard it before. I will still stand my ground, and speak out for those of us who aren't exploited, for those of us who chose this profession willingly, for those of us who love this job and for everyone who has been hurt by the laws that are supposed to protect us.

 

In terms of Andrea Dworkin, I actually quoted her recently in my lecture at Ottawa U. In her book, Intercourse, she actually calls for the abolition of intercourse, and women who claim to enjoy that act are labeled "collaborator, more base in their collaboration than other collaborators have ever been: experiencing pleasure in their own inferiority; calling intercourse freedom.'

 

The fact that these people will tell me that I have been brainwashed by the patriarchy makes me sick. I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I am an adult, able to make her own choices. I choose to rent my body. Just as I would choose to get an abortion, if I became pregnant. Which brings to mind another handy quote: If you can't trust a woman with a choice, how can you trust her with a baby?

[VedaSloan 119179]

Erin,

 

Richard Poulin is a frustrated old Marxist who has been trying to reinvent himself since the collapse of the soviet union - from what I remember of his work, sex work is an example of capitalist exploitation and a further commodification of the bodies of women.

 

Peanuts any one?

 

Yeah, it's BS. He's based his whole career around this theory, so of course he won't let it go easily. My problem is he spouts all this shit and he's never even spoken to a sex worker.

[thetiminator 100]

http://www.thestar.com/article/617144

 

Thoughts?

[VedaSloan 119179]

This article echoes many of the sentiments expressed by the CLAP. I'm curious to know where the stats he quotes are coming from (because apparently 89% of sex workers want out of the biz).

 

In any case, thinking like this reduces women to the "eternal" victim role. We become unable to think, to choose, to consent. We need to be saved by the government! I think it's ridiculous to criminalize the men. If it's okay for the women to work as prostitutes, it should not be illegal to visit one.

 

People like this shouldn't be allowed to spew their garbage left and right. These are the people the media go to when they want to talk prostitution, not the prostitutes themselves.

 

Just like in any industry (hospitality or factory work, for example) there are some which are good, and some whose conditions are the lowest of the low. Which leads me to my next point. Human trafficking is a labor issue, not a prostitution issue.

[Akhenaton 221]

As always, extremists want to act without understanding the whole situation.

 

Sre there victims, yes, I am sure there are, so how will driving this even deeper help those victims ? by buring them deeper, lol wath a lod of crap.

 

anyhow, I had posted something in an other thread about marriage as a joke, the quote is from the article above, looks like some don't take it as a joke...

 

"Relationships can be very expensive both in time and in money and men shouldn't have to endure a long process of trying to get into a relationship just to have sex. Maybe if girls would stop wanting diamonds and expensive gifts from a boyfriend in exchange for sex then things might change. Having a girlfriend who expects you to buy things for her IS prostitution in my views: she demands gifts and monetary items and will exchange for sex. Why deal with the headaches. If you think men are lazy what about the sexless relationships where the women are lazy and don't take care of themselves. If you want to close off all the options for men to view porn and have access to prostitutes then maybe there will be a rise in rape crimes. There is a reason why women don't pay for sex is because they can easily go into a bar and get it for free without any work. Don't hate the player, hate the game."

 

http://www.thestar.com/article/617144

 

Thoughts?

[Miss Maria 199]

http://www.thestar.com/article/617144

 

Thoughts?

 

 

First of all it is politically incorrect to say third world country.. plus some of the countries he quotes were part of the 2nd world countries. 1st world equalled democratic industrialized country so the us and its allies, 2nd world equalled communist industrialized country so russia and its allies, and thrid world was the rest, so the non industrialized, and the ones in state of conflict or just the neutral, non-alligned countries. Since the communist governement of Russia fell down in the cold war, so has the second world. In academic circles it is better to use the terms, developing country or newly industrialized countries.

 

They should learn how to speak properly.

 

Second, 'When a country legalizes prostitution, it lives off the avails of prostitution through taxation and in effect becomes a pimp.' HELLO, it might be illegal in canada to live on the avails of prostitution but its not like that everywhere. Plus, you don't think that fining or liscencing these ladies isn't living off the avails.. thats what we do in Canada.

 

I believe the big problem people have is not with selling sex for money, but deep down it is about women sexuality. As a society we have trouble accepting that women enjoy sexuality, or have the possibility to enjoy sexuality. This goes as much for the wives and girlfriends then for the prostitutes. How can I be a victim if I see sexuality as something positive, a sharing of personal moments and erogenous zone. A coming together of two human beings in a pysical and mental way with sensuality and passion at times, but in an animalistic sweaty active fun playful act at other times.

 

In the conversation about exploitation, we need to seperate the ladies who are victims: trafficked, underaged, controled by pimps, raped ect, with the ones entering this by choice of profession.

 

I want a source for the 89% of prostitutes want out quote. I am sure that study is biased like most studies involving humans especially ones using a moralistic approach.

[Guest Ou**or**n]

I am sure if you study any profession in a developing country you would find...

 

'that the vast majority, 89 per cent in one, desperately want out. They're hungry, need to feed children or give health care to aging parents'

 

Heck, if any of us won the lotto we'd leave our jobs. I certainly wouldn't service platoons of IT Project Managers without getting paid.

 

Talk about a truly stupid point. And don't get me started on the rest of the article...

[YoungStud 468]

There are a group of "star" or "celebrity" journalists in this country who are much more interested in self-promotion than in actually reporting a story. They'll put whatever spin they want on the facts in order to give themselves maximum publicity and maximum revenue.

[buggernot 588]

People like this shouldn't be allowed to spew their garbage left and right. These are the people the media go to when they want to talk prostitution, not the prostitutes themselves.

 

Whoa now, what you're talking about here is censorship...tsk, tsk, you should know better ;)

 

They can spew all they want, only the people that had the same opinion to begin with are going to agree. I found it interesting that the majority of the comments to the article were pro-legalization, and only a few supported the opinion in the article. And much of the agreement was with the horrible 3rd world situations where girls are forced into it.

[VedaSloan 119179]

Whoa now, what you're talking about here is censorship...tsk, tsk, you should know better ;)

 

They can spew all they want, only the people that had the same opinion to begin with are going to agree. I found it interesting that the majority of the comments to the article were pro-legalization, and only a few supported the opinion in the article. And much of the agreement was with the horrible 3rd world situations where girls are forced into it.

 

 

Ha, you're right! I should know better. It still pisses me off though when the media wants to speak with people like Richard Poulin rather than sex workers themselves. I mean, if you want the straight up truth, go to the source, yeah?

[Guest Ou**or**n]

It still pisses me off though when the media wants to speak with people like Richard Poulin rather than sex workers themselves. I mean, if you want the straight up truth, go to the source, yeah?

 

Your absolutely right Erin but having a group like POWER gives the media an organization to contact for them to get to the 'source'. Make sure POWER sends out regular news releases and becomes known to local media. Most reporters need to bang out stories quickly and will turn to sources they know.

[VedaSloan 119179]

Your absolutely right Erin but having a group like POWER gives the media an organization to contact for them to get to the 'source'. Make sure POWER sends out regular news releases and becomes known to local media. Most reporters need to bang out stories quickly and will turn to sources they know.

 

I will definitely bring that up at the meeting this week. Thanks for the tip :)