How to deal....

[roamingguy 300292]

These options would make it harder to copy, and the perps might just go to another site that's easier to copy to get their info

 

Perps is right, and who wants to have an encounter with a perp. Me, I like to have encounters with ladies

RG

[Smithwick 7122]

Me too. I know outing these girls may not be the "classy" thing to do, but I think it would be good to let us know who to avoid. Who might be the ones who won't think twice about stealing your wallet while you're in the shower.

[Athos 108589]

Legal action is definitely the way to go. Lawyers letters to the people doing the copying, but more importantly, to the hosting site/Internet service provider.

 

You need to think of this as copywright/trademark infringement. If I were to copy a McDonald's ad word for word, jingle and everything, but just substitute Burger King for McDonald's in the copy, I'd have my ass sued off.

 

This is the same sort of thing ... A passing off and an effort to mislead/confuse consumers. And just because the business is a little "off the grid" in terms of what most commercial lawyers will see, doesn't change the nature of the issue. In the same way your accountant doesn't care, (business revenue, expenses, and taxes are the same regardless), so the lawyer won't either.

 

Short of that, track them down and put their heads on pikes, Game of Thrones style!!!

 

Porthos

[backrubman 64800]

If you truly want someone inconvenienced, maybe, unfortunately legal action is the recourse. Make it so costly to steal from someone (just the inconvenience of legal action has a cost) else that they won't it again

 

I agree completely with your sentiment RG.

 

Unfortunately in a civil matter (and I don't see LE bothering with this) the applicant has to pay the initial filing cost and show up to a hearing, the respondent need not even appear (therefore no cost to them).

 

Emily Rushton can't file suit (unless of course that is her legal name) and then we need the legal name and address of the respondent also and have to serve them with 5 days of filing (in Nova Scotia, something similar in every province I suspect) and provide proof of service to the Court.

 

How do we calculate damages and in a provable and quantifiable amount the Judge can understand?

 

So the only relief we can seek would seem to be an order to compel them to take down the content and it is basically unenforceable. If it is hosted outside Canada, Opps, no joy. We might get a web hosting company to take it down but the offender can put it back up with another web hosting company the same day for far less costs than it took to take it down (in fact for pennies on the hundreds of dollars).

 

An so the Whack-A-Mole game continues....

 

There are legal ways around all of this but wow they get expensive fast.

 

...You need to think of this as copywright/trademark infringement. If I were to copy a McDonald's ad word for word, jingle and everything, but just substitute Burger King for McDonald's in the copy, I'd have my ass sued off.

 

Yeah but McDonalds is an 89 billion dollar company, a million in legal fees is nothing to them. That's 89,000 million so if you have $89,000 and have to spend $1 on legal fees, seems affordable.

[Athos 108589]

I agree with many of your points Backrubman. Damage calculations are always tricky, but trademark infringements don't necessarily depend on demonstrating damage. Ultimately you want injunctive relief. Yes, lawyers cost money. Sometimes it's wort it. In cases like this, the people doing the stealing are likely not in a position where they want to hire lawyers to defend themselves against a claim. A threatening letter from a lawyer might just do the trick. Starting out with that isn't very expensive, and doesn't necessarily commit you to going all the way down the road. But you do need to think about whether you're prepared to travel the road. Very much an individual choice and personal assessment, especially given the nature of the business.

 

Porthos

[Guest N***he**Ont**y]

A legal letter may cost $25.00 from a lawyer or more it maybe the best dollars spent!

[backrubman 64800]

I agree with many of your points Backrubman. Damage calculations are always tricky, but trademark infringements don't necessarily depend on demonstrating damage. Ultimately you want injunctive relief. Yes, lawyers cost money. Sometimes it's wort it. In cases like this, the people doing the stealing are likely not in a position where they want to hire lawyers to defend themselves against a claim. A threatening letter from a lawyer might just do the trick. Starting out with that isn't very expensive, and doesn't necessarily commit you to going all the way down the road. But you do need to think about whether you're prepared to travel the road. Very much an individual choice and personal assessment, especially given the nature of the business.

 

Porthos

 

And I agree with you my friend.

 

I don't want to be negative here in fact just the opposite - if I knew how to handle this problem and make it go away I'd be very inclined to simply do so as a no cost service to the CERB community.

 

But we are only going to be able to easily determine the web hosting company, the legal name and address of the true offender is much harder and expensive to obtain, in fact we might have to start formal legal proceedings against the web hosting company (beyond the small claims court limit) to get that information on discovery, could take years.

 

So we pick on the web hosting company and send them notice that they are hosting copyrighted content in violation of the Copyright Act and to cease and desist - in all likelihood they do take down the content. But the offender can buy a new web hosting package and upload the content to a new web site in a few minutes and then we have to find it again and send another letter. Eventually we are dealing with a web hosting company well outside our reach who specializes in hosting questionable content (there are a few) and they don't comply.

 

I can't see how we can tip the scales and make it more expensive for the offender than it is for the complainant. If anyone does, please speak up!

 

To make the offender require a legal counsel we have to sue them directly (which requires we know exactly who they are, where they are, file and have them served and process servers cost money too) and then they still don't need counsel, they just ignore us, the applicant shows up to the hearing at their expense and wins by default as no response or defense was offered and gets an unenforceable order.

 

My off shore web hosting company doesn't know who I am, all they know is my email address I used with PayPal to buy the web hosting package. If they want my name and home address they need to go to PayPal to get this. Paypal probably won't give it up easily, they are more interested in processing payments and payment disputes.

 

Of course the mail exchanger (MX) records for my domain are pointed at Google as they host my email, so we know I am Google's customer and they probably know who I am. Ask them to give up customer data, not without great cause and almost no choice legally will they do this.

 

It's been mentioned that exposing this is an option, in the case of one CERB lady stealing from another I agree, it's not unladylike to do so as the gentlemen of CERB want nothing to do with these copy cats and even deserve to know but alas you can't even post that negative information on CERB.

[Guest N***he**Ont**y]

A legal letter may cost $25.00 from a lawyer or more it maybe the best dollars spent!

The actual letter is what I am referring too . I guess the lawyers hourly rate would also be on top of the charge for the lettter.

[Cowboy kenny 50799]

Emily, I've been away the last little while so I'm just catching up on this, sounds like you've got some pretty solid advice here from your friends on CERB, I certainly hope that this theft was not from another CERB member and if so hopefully they've been dealt with accordingly. I think the invoice for your time for writing the ad is the best slap in the face and if they aren't too bright it will have them scratching their heads.

 

When Gabriella Lawerence was faced with a simillar situation recently I suggested to her to do just that and I think it helped get the message across.

 

Photos, ad copy, creative writing, drawings, graphic design are all intellectual properties that express the creativity of the individual who worked hard to create that work, stealing that work is like grabing money from someones wallet or pocketbook. To those that do choose to steal, remember KARMA... it's a bitch.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

Emily, I haven't had time to look into it much but this might be of interest:

http://www.copyscape.com/about.php