Ottawa: The Upwards Battle (bit of a rant)

[Suzirider 737]

From McLennan's conclusion to Saturday's article (words in bold are my emphasis):

All you have to do is look in these girls' eyes to know that they are not happy ... Eyes are a recurring theme in Malarek's book:

Johns never look in the girls' eyes

.... I never opened my eyes when I was with a client. And I kept them closed until now.

I think it's Poll time.

Anyone want to beat me to it, refute this claim, in public, on this site ?

 

Title : Johns never look in the girls' eyes :?:

[A***** A***** 510]

Man oh man i have alot of catching up to do

Posted via Mobile Device

[YoungStud 468]

I expected that she would surely take firm issue with this position of Malarek's, like Antonia Zerbesias very admirably did in the Toronto Star on 13 May (http://www.thestar.com/living/article/633275).

 

I have often wondered over the years which was the smugger, smarmier self-promoting media "star" willing re-order reality in order to promote their own career and line their own pocket-book. But in this current Malarek/Zerbesias toss-up, I have to side with the latter as being the saner, more rational voice.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

I have often wondered over the years which was the smugger, smarmier self-promoting media "star" willing re-order reality in order to promote their own career and line their own pocket-book.

 

YS, I'm sensing a bit of an attitude here ... ha ha ha

[YoungStud 468]

YS, I'm sensing a bit of an attitude here ... ha ha ha

 

Media prima donnas sometimes make me gag. What can I say? Lol.

[d*mm*y 887]

Not so. After a bit of reasonable demurral, McLennan ultimately falls for Malarek's demonization of johns -- hook, line, and sinker: "Men looking to pay for sex plus a money-driven society equals women and children treated as commodities and trafficked in a fashion similar to drugs and guns." Of sex-workers, the "callousness of the johns who rent their bodies" is emphasized. Although McLennan states that "Malarek villainizes every man who has ever paid for sex, and in doing so risks turning them into caricatures", and she does concede at one point that "Men who hire prostitutes aren't all inherently bad human beings, and the women who choose to work as prostitutes aren't all victims", she promptly turns right around and paradoxically seems to agree wholeheartedly that the caricature is perfectly accurate, supporting Malarek's advocation of "a crackdown on johns." From McLennan's conclusion to Saturday's article (words in bold are my emphasis):

No one wants to admit to contributing to the enslavement of a human being.

But there is no line between escorting and human trafficking, it's all the same industry

...

 

It would be irresponsible of me to sit back and say nothing,

now that I get it

. I was not willing to join the fight against prostitution because it meant admitting I was a victim ...

 

All you have to do is look in these girls' eyes to know that they are not happy ... Eyes are a recurring theme in Malarek's book:

Johns never look in the girls' eyes

.... I never opened my eyes when I was with a client. And I kept them closed until now.

 

Unfortunately there is truth here, this is a byproduct of the stigmas and underground nature of the business and the way it has evolved over the last 200 years. I am not so naive as to use the terms ALL however I think it well into the 90'th percentile. At this point in time the stereotypical "John" is not socialized and turns to prostitutes because of poor social skills. I hate to be the guy that says this but in most cases the ladies are dehumanized pushed to the business buy elements out of their control, or at least that is the perception they feel. Most guys are looking for a simple convenient fix, it's not about love or admiration. Now there are moments when it feels different but they are fleeting.

 

I do believe that it does not have to be this way, I believe that clients and SP's can build special bonds but it is only through the SP feeling worthy and the client having respect, for that persons life and the emotions and needs beyond the financial ones that they both have. The basic need for food and shelter and love need to firmly be met before the SP can go to the next levels of care for the clients, and the clients need to stop worrying about getting off and start worrying about their providers as long term parts of their lives. Either as a large group that they will sample, or a few that they will grow with. But it is a very precious commodity and we need to have more respect, not just lip service. As long as there is an opportunity for the handlers and pimps to keep spreading BS and lies and there is no accountability for the BS than the business will be driven by undesirable elements and will continue to be on a par with human trafficking, these ladies are not like a farmers livestock, they are not a commodity for us to buy and sell, and that is the human trafficking part of the business that we must stop.

 

How many times have I heard a handler say "you have to stick with us because we know the hotel and you will be safe" or a pimp say "If you love me you will do this for us" the best one of all "if you go out on your own you will be breaking the law and won't have our protection" and the icing on the cake! "I will tell your friends and family if you don't keep doing it" These are coercion and they happen all the time every day right here in this city, and in every city, municipality and town in North America.

The idea behind POWER and organization like this one is to bring the attention to the industry and say “hey it’s not alright sex workers are being abused at unprecedented rates and we need to fix it” not to put our heads in the sand and pretend it’s all good.

McLennan was the exception to the rule she was able to thrive in this environment, however that is one in a million and she is acknowledging that the business is seriously flawed. She is not saying that the idea is not right, just that the way it is today is not good, and basically human trafficking. Lets try to make changes not pretend that the industry is working.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

The idea behind POWER and organization like this one is ... not to put our heads in the sand and pretend it?s all good.

....Lets try to make changes not pretend that the industry is working.

 

Nor should we stick our heads in the sand and pretend it's all bad, and that no changes could ever make the industry work -- which is Malarek's position, ultimately supported by McLennan in her book review.

 

I think Dummpy and I agree on the basic position that the world is not all black or all white.

 

I believe that it is possible for there to be escorting without human trafficking, and that some johns do look in the girl's eyes. I would never participate in such a thing otherwise. McLennan agrees with this in her book, but suddenly she now realizes she is a victim instead. I find that especially hard to stomach.

 

Cheers, Wrinkled

[d*mm*y 887]

Nor should we stick our heads in the sand and pretend it's all bad, and that no changes could ever make the industry work -- which is Malarek's position, ultimately supported by McLennan in her book review.

 

I think Dummpy and I agree on the basic position that the world is not all black or all white.

 

I believe that it is possible for there to be escorting without human trafficking, and that some johns do look in the girl's eyes. I would never participate in such a thing otherwise. McLennan agrees with this in her book, but suddenly she now realizes she is a victim instead. I find that especially hard to stomach.

 

Cheers, Wrinkled

 

To be fair I have not read any of the books I am just making a statement that I don't think the industry is in good shape right now. And I know we agree on pretty much everything, I just did not want the book review to side track the issue.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

I just did not want the book review to side track the issue.

 

Absolutely. I meant it to illustrate Annessa's "Upwards Battle" theme, and her statement that "I feel sorry for some who judge before they even try to understand."

[a******s.m*****e 187]

Unfortunately there is truth here, this is a byproduct of the stigmas and underground nature of the business and the way it has evolved over the last 200 years. I am not so naive as to use the terms ALL however I think it well into the 90'th percentile. At this point in time the stereotypical "John" is not socialized and turns to prostitutes because of poor social skills. I hate to be the guy that says this but in most cases the ladies are dehumanized pushed to the business buy elements out of their control, or at least that is the perception they feel. Most guys are looking for a simple convenient fix, it's not about love or admiration. Now there are moments when it feels different but they are fleeting.

 

I do believe that it does not have to be this way, I believe that clients and SP's can build special bonds but it is only through the SP feeling worthy and the client having respect, for that persons life and the emotions and needs beyond the financial ones that they both have. The basic need for food and shelter and love need to firmly be met before the SP can go to the next levels of care for the clients, and the clients need to stop worrying about getting off and start worrying about their providers as long term parts of their lives. Either as a large group that they will sample, or a few that they will grow with. But it is a very precious commodity and we need to have more respect, not just lip service. As long as there is an opportunity for the handlers and pimps to keep spreading BS and lies and there is no accountability for the BS than the business will be driven by undesirable elements and will continue to be on a par with human trafficking, these ladies are not like a farmers livestock, they are not a commodity for us to buy and sell, and that is the human trafficking part of the business that we must stop.

 

How many times have I heard a handler say "you have to stick with us because we know the hotel and you will be safe" or a pimp say "If you love me you will do this for us" the best one of all "if you go out on your own you will be breaking the law and won't have our protection" and the icing on the cake! "I will tell your friends and family if you don't keep doing it" These are coercion and they happen all the time every day right here in this city, and in every city, municipality and town in North America.

The idea behind POWER and organization like this one is to bring the attention to the industry and say “hey it’s not alright sex workers are being abused at unprecedented rates and we need to fix it” not to put our heads in the sand and pretend it’s all good.

McLennan was the exception to the rule she was able to thrive in this environment, however that is one in a million and she is acknowledging that the business is seriously flawed. She is not saying that the idea is not right, just that the way it is today is not good, and basically human trafficking. Lets try to make changes not pretend that the industry is working.

 

Yes, yes, yes! If we want to decriminalize we should make sure we eliminate all the evils that goes with prostitution, or decriminalization will only make it worse for those who are being exploited.

 

And we must understand that voluntary and involuntary prostitution are not the same. One is good, the other is extremely bad.

 

Also, the dehumanizing effect is still very much out there. Just go to other review boards and read the despicable "reviews" on women who can't fight back, like Asian massage parlours or street walkers.

Every time I read reviews about a girl on how tight or loose her pussy is, how big her scar on her tummy from the cesarian section, how sagging her breasts are, I am thinking this is terrible, they are being scrutinized like livestock or slaves on the market :(

 

Just go to one of the BC boards where you can read "reviews" on runaway teenagers and drug addict mothers on the streets by disgustingly disrespectful men, while other members are applauding them, finding it hilarious.

 

Yes, the dehumanizing and degrading effect is still out there. We can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't.

 

But, yes, the other side also exists. There are women who chose this job, are thriving on it and are respected by their clients.

 

Both generalizitions are not only false, but harmful.

[a******s.m*****e 187]

OK, so make up your mind if this is dehumanizing in your opinion? This kind of prostitution and attitude is very much alive. This guy who writes these "reviews" is very popular, so the majority finds nothing wrong with this tone of voice when it comes to prostitutes.

 

This is just an example. Mod, if you find it disgusting (I agree with you), feel free to delete it.

 

"Yep deja-vue time, same chick as this old thread title on Perb years ago. She used to work for Shayna over on 152nd & 96th in Guildford. What I didn't know about her is that she is Catherine's older sister, Catherine always told me about her sister that I would really like her. Yep that's true alright I had been fucking both of them and didn't know I was bangin sisters, its a small world.

 

Well I stopped at the Esso at 72 & Kg. tonight and as I was leaving this sexy blonde came in. I wasn't sure if she was a Ho but my radar was tingling, I sat in the trickmachine and she walked out and got in another car that was parked further over. I waited a bit and then thought, false alarm and backed out as I was leaving she got out of the car and the car drove off. She started walking towards the hwy and right by the trickmachine, I waved her over and she hopped in.

 

Are you working? I asked yes I am, I think I know you she says, yeah you look faminliar, I'm Rachel I worked with Tanya, that's Shayna's real name. It was great to see her, she's a really nice girl and we talked about her sister Catherine, she went thru some tough times but is all clean and sober and doing well. Both these girls are gorgeous bodied ho's, Rachel is older now, christ its about 5 years since I last saw her and now she's 32 but still great lookin.

 

We parked and I gave her 3 gr, I remember your flashlite she says, she dropped her gear and popped a nice set of tits out of her half bra and proceeded to play with the sweetest lil school girl pussy, what a cute lil peach. Ol throbber didn't waste any time commin to life and I eased him into that tight lil snatch, wow she felt great. She has a bit of meat on her bones and it feels great slidin in and out between those smooth thighs. I took my time and really fucked her good, wound up blowin a good load that rocked me!

 

I dropped her off on KG by Hare Creek, she is working the Hwy cause it don't take her long to get picked up. She gave me her new number and I told her the pussy posse would be commin for her for sure, so I guess I'm addin to the list again. Fuck its great to find a good Ho, now if only I could get ahold of her sister at the same time, that would be a fabulous duo!"

 

And this is not the worst. This guy writes about women who just "been calving" (just had a baby for those who had a proper upbringing :)), and he has a "snatch light" he uses to look for STD's on women.

 

Do you really blame Malarek if this is what he read before he wrote his book?

 

No matter how much I try, I can't find any "looking in the eyes" here :)

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Do you really blame Malarek if this is what he read before he wrote his book?

 

Yup, because (as I once read somewhere, ha ha):

 

... generalizitions are not only false, but harmful.

 

(Sorry, I gotta stop posting on this thread ... your point is well taken, except for the Malarek line!)

[a******s.m*****e 187]

Yup, because (as I once read somewhere, ha ha):

 

 

 

(Sorry, I gotta stop posting on this thread ... your point is well taken, except for the Malarek line!)

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to justify Malarek. What I am saying is that the issue has two sides. On one side the women who are doing this voluntarily, and then there is an ugly, dark side that is being swept under the rug.

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle. I am saying, as long as it is the woman's decision, no other adult profits from it (except escort service fees), and she is treated humanly, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

I don't quite agree with the "feminist" argument. REAL freedom to do with your body would be to have sex with people you are genuinely attracted to, not the ones who can pay for it. But let's be realistic, not too many people can afford real freedom, the rest of us (men, women) have to work for a living.

 

I personally felt a lot worse working from 9 - 5 for $11 an hour, being responsible for millions of dollars, harassed by the boss and back stabbed by my peers. I felt a relief when I decided to become an escort and walked out of there.

Everything is relative. It depends on what you compare it to.

 

But I have also seen the dark side, having worked in an office in the skid row area of Vancouver for a few years. I saw the girls standing on the corner in low cut dresses and mini skirts in bitter cold weather, and the pimps collecting money from them. I have seen girls going crazy on drugs and banging their heads against the wall......

 

I have seen nice looking young girls turning into human wrecks within a few months, raising their skirts and showing their butts to the passing cars. This is what drugs can do to you. And many of the street girls are on drugs.

 

Yes, the profession needs dignity and decriminalization, but more importantly, cracking down on pimps, and rescuing the girls from drugs and from this undignified life on the streets. No woman, or man should ever get in the position of degrading herself/himself in such way.

 

And if you think I am unfair to men, there is a place where guys are selling themselves on the street corner and I feel just as sorry for them. Most of them on drugs, of course.

[PistolPete 61421]

for exactly coming to terms with yourself.All the ladies here are very special, and dear to my heart. I was away on a mini getaway and have read these threads, and just wanted to comment that, you Annessa (and all other ladies) will always have a special place in my heart, and are truly dear friends. I believe you have had made many true friends, that will always have your back, when in need.

Your friend,hugs

Pete

 

I for one (no matter what I may have lost tonight...that didn't matter in the first place now that I think of it) have gained more strength from coming to terms with who I am tonight....

 

 

....and I have POWER to thank for it.

 

all my love,

xoxo Annessa

[fortunateone 156618]

 

and that some johns do look in the girl's eyes. I would never participate in such a thing otherwise.

Cheers, Wrinkled

 

This really stands out, because I would honestly say that a very very small portion of visitors do not look directly at me, and those individuals are so shy and nervous that it is not insulting but endearing.

 

The anti-prostitution camp seem to have one POV, and it is one that could only exist if the sps have zero power or control over their own situation and that clients are not human beings. Since neither of those statements is true, then the anti-camp is spreading malicious untruths about the industry, the workers and the customers.

 

note: re: anita's example, that reviewer as crude as he is, actually exhibits a great deal of honest admiration for women than a lot of more "tasteful" writers on those review boards do. Dripping condescension, blatant lies, disrespect, rude comments about age or shapes even tho the reviewer deliberately chooses to see an sp with clear pictures & description making it clear they went solely in order to degrade her during the appt then afterwards with a nasty review. There is one recent one on the big board who saw a bbw, then called her a fat pig over and over in the post; same guy saw another & revelled in making her cry, & cut the appt short due to her discomfort. That guy makes the example above look like a knight in shining armour, imo. He can narrow down to body parts; but at the end of the date, she has had a safe date and that cannot be taken lightly, I'm sure.

 

Oh, don't get me started lol. But no worries; I stomp all over that bs. I've been harrassed and trashed myself, and have no intention of letting anyone do it to any other sp without question (altho time limits restrict me to only 2-3 other boards).