A scary subject: BBFS

[d***o01 306]

All this talk about someone offering bbfs completely scares and turns me off this hobby.

Maybe this is what i needed to get my life kick started again.

People please play safe.

dingo01

[MightyPen 67414]

This is misleading, MP. If the condom breaks or comes off, you're not coming into contact with all of my clients and everyone's various partners, but only with those people with whom I have engaged in unprotected sexual activities. Everyone else has been "contained."

True; I had in mind voluntary removal of the condom, not breaks or accidents. My point to the client in that situation was, "you will not have been unique in this regard."

[Alyssa Staxxx 4412]

You never know...and for all the statistics and reports that are readily available, there are millions more that are not...No one can say: "You can't get this doing that; you can't get that doing this" "There is no evidence of getting this doing that"....there is evidence of it all and all of it is possible.

 

"Research presented at the 7th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections in February of 2000 concluded that 8 of 122 cases in an HIV-transmission study were possibly attributable to performing oral sex on a man."

 

No one can say for sure, but it can't be denied either, the risks are there....the point is, as service providers we are forced to take these risks everyday, possibly 5-10 times a day, unlike pornstars or the general public, with unknown gentlemen in uncontrolled environments...

 

Why? Because the clients demand it and its expected today, regardless of the risks....BBFS is not as scary to some as it is to others...JUST LIKE BBBJs are not as scary to some as they are to others...education is key.

 

I realize men love BBBJs, DATY and DFK and expect a GFE experience from an SP today because they think an SP/MA/Dancer is clean, gets tested regularly and wouldn't be working if she had something contagious and doesn't work when she has her period....Unfortunately that just isn't reality and is not the case at large, in the real world SPs are the ones that are at higher risk for everything because of the client demand for it, ignorance to the risks and basic financial survival.

 

An SP stays competitive or starves, plain and simple....clients drive down the rates and increase the demands everyday....BBFS included.

 

Statistics and education and risk factors at large reflect the population at large...SPs need to take extra precautions and be extra aware of the risks (most are not) because unlike a client who may practice risky behaviour once or twice a month with an SP, an SP is confronted with the safety risks and these choices five times a day, 35 times a week, 140 times a month...

 

How many clients do you think a girl has per day when her rates are around $100 or $200?? Five is a slow day for most.

 

Again, I will post this link:

http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsforstds/a/oralsexsafesex.htm

 

BBFS in the sex industry is a ridiculous concept to some, not all, ...just like BBBJs used to be...people ignore the risks at the moment and for a price because it feels better...smh

 

Safety is in our control, clients and providers alike...again, it all comes down to supply and demand and the risks you are willing to take, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

The choice is always ours to make and the information is out there...unfortunately denial or ignorance won't protect us or our families should, God forbid, we be that unlucky one...and unfortunately, as service providers, the industry as a whole continues to make the choice of practicing safer sex and financial survival for most, very limited as opposed to the standard.

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

I would guess that practically everyone in porn has or has had an std. at least one of the common ones. if you are a regular joe, you have about a 1 in 5 chance for herpes with unprotected sex. About one in 15 for chylamidia etc.

Hiv again is another story. there is very little of it in the porn industry strangely enough, because again it is hard to transmit (via heterosexual sex), and really not that common in the hetero/anglosaxon world. And the odd dude who has contracted it 'heterosexually' is probably lying because he decided to experiment with gay sex but it was easier to blame it on the hot escort or random he picked up at the bar. Again, i am not saying dont worry about it, but you have a much higher chance of getting a meat and potatoes std, or the girl pregnant, than the std that everyone on the planet has been taught to be comletely petrified of.

I think the odds actually are closer to 1 in 1000. Probably why it took majic johnson slam dunking his way through 2,500 women before he contracted it. Consider celebrities such as huge heffner, warren beatty...and others...these guys have self-admittedly bagged hundreds if not thousands of women. Yet no HIV. you would have heard of lawsuits etc etc if this kind of thing happened.

Anyway, back to BBFS...it is still just stupid, because you will get something eventually (hpv, herpes, cl, gon, hep etc)....some of which are completely treatable and curable and somewhat 'harmless' compared to the big one, but do you want any of these things? A lot of men engaging in the company are not single, they are attached. I am guessing the ones who insist on bareback are the single ones, and the ones you really have to worry about.

 

btw there have been probably next to 0 documented cases of hiv via oral (and the one suspected case was probably due to the needle sharing afterwards), including cunnilingus, and if you look into the other ones via oral, they are also not common at all...people talk about transmission of these via oral in a theoretical sense...rather than based on how many cases they see. the grand majority of stds will come from penetration sex, without condom. Guys have it easier than women for transfer rate, but women show less symptoms. Sorry to say, if you are on this board you probably already have hpv or will at some point in the near future.

 

 

 

Additional Comments:

I am not condoning the practice of bbbj, but again the mouth is so chalked full of bacteria that will kill anything that enters it, including yes hiv.

Now if your gums are bleeding like crazy or her gums are bleeding or she is on her period (chances are you are not down there with you mouth if she is), cuts, etc etc...it is risky, but straight bbbj for stds is low on the list for contraction.

If he were to ejaculate in your mouth, there would be a slightly higher chance, but again given the nature of the biology of the mouth and stomach, the std would have little chance of living or place to go.

STD remember rely a lot on friction for transmission. A bj with a good amount of saliva thwarts with from the friction standpoint and the fact that saliva again is chalked full of bacteria that kills bad stuff.

 

 

I... don't even know where to start with this one.

 

[Bushwacka 531]

This thread has veered into needed discussion territory. Confession: I love BBBJs. I would be saddened if this current industry standard changed. But I remember some "good old days" decades ago when CBJ, CFS, and non-GFE/PSE behaviour was normal.

 

20 years ago in a large Canadian city, here are some example of things that NO coventional phone book escort, SUN advertiser, or a corner-cutie would provide to me or anyone else I knew; LFK, DFK, DATY, BBBJ, CIM, MSOG, Digits, Greek, rimming, and the list went on.

 

At that time, I did my hobby about twice a month. Supposing 24 per year over 4 years at that time in my life, then out of about 100 hobby-times, 1) once I unexpectedly got one BBBJ in my car and 2) once I had everything including BBFS from an old girlfriend who had just started in the industry, and both of us were drunk and I did not know that she was an SP until after the glory. (Ghisele? Are you still out there?)

 

The standard then was light rubbing, a hardening handjob, CBJ, and then CFS. The only skin in contact with my almighty one was the SP's hand, an occasional thigh, and soft tender breasts (pre-silicone era). And the number of SPs who would turn their head away or say "no" if you tried to kiss them was almost 100%.

 

There were particular skills common within the industry at the time. Example. CBJ done well feels good. Check out the You Tube video (no link) called "How to put a condom on with your mouth" by River Huston. Done well by a skilled enthusiastic SP, its good. Different than BBBJ but good in its own way. And safer for the SP.

 

I dont think that CBJ and BBBJ is the main difference today. I think it is something else. Today, an SP will talk and cuddle and be an individual; that non-sexual rapporting tends to enhance the overall experience these days. 20 years ago, that sort of rapport was rare. Things were quicker and more business-like.

 

If you wanted modern options back then, you did it the hard way and not with an SP --- bar, wink, buy drink, flirt, dance, yap, FK, her place or my place, "fuck and duck" --- with no guarantee of ever getting past FK.

 

That is all a long way of saying that I prefer BBBJ over CBJ but can be made quite happy by a CBJ if done the right way and is accompanied by more individualizing soft touches of intimate small chat, tender caresses, and light whispers in my ear.

 

So, SPs, put industry standard on the agenda at the next union meeting. CBJ or BBBJ: both can be satisfying. But if the industry standard changes and we go back to the old ways of clock-watching, "much longer baby?", and patting my back like I am a dog, then I will considering expending my hobby efforts on a Fleshlight.

[Guest **n****er]

 

I... don't even know where to start with this one.

 

 

Beat me to the punch....can't ever disagree with Picard.

[Guest d**eye***y]

Really???

curious to know what part you think is 'shit"

so some reading on the subject and come up with facts that refute anything I said.

 

 

Beat me to the punch....can't ever disagree with Picard.

[LeeRichards 177238]

Even horsies don't do bareback full service anymore

 

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

Really???

curious to know what part you think is 'shit"

so some reading on the subject and come up with facts that refute anything I said.

 

Dave, I'm replying against my better judgment. In some ways your posts in this thread seem trollish and I'm allergic to feeding trolls. Nevertheless, this has been a serious discussion about the pressure on paid companions to agree to bareback activities, including a query about whether BBBJs are as risky as BBFS. Several people have contributed helpful, factual information, including links to authoritative resources. Your post, however, was full of conjecture, unsubstantiated statements and ungrounded accusations generally in favour of the argument that the risk of contracting a serious STI is miniscule. What you've heard in response has been dull shock and dismay and now it appears that you want others to do your work for you, to prove you wrong. That's not going to happen.

 

I've been a paid companion for over a decade and have heard the "minimal risk" argument at least once a week, and frequently far more often. I find it personally offensive and insensitive because it doesn't take into account the reality of my life and working conditions. For many men, the risk of contracting an STI from a woman may be relatively low, given that they may have only a few sex partners a year, or less. But for paid companions, the risk is exponentially higher because of the number of partners we encounter in a month, a year or a lifetime.

 

Let's say that we're in a room with 100 other people. One person has a gun with two bullets in it and he fires both of them. A lot of people may reckon that they have a 2% chance of being hit; they feel pretty safe, overall. Others may say that they don't want to be anywhere near that room, let alone in it, no matter how many other people are there because there's a guy, with a gun, and he's shooting bullets!

 

But for me, it's my room. I entertain the whole crowd here, and I never know which of them has the gun. Most of the time, the one with the gun doesn't know he has it, either.

 

Do your own research. Then reflect on what you read. Be humane. Have empathy. Be compassionate.

[cat 262460]

Dave, I'm replying against my better judgment. In some ways your posts in this thread seem trollish and I'm allergic to feeding trolls. Nevertheless, this has been a serious discussion about the pressure on paid companions to agree to bareback activities, including a query about whether BBBJs are as risky as BBFS. Several people have contributed helpful, factual information, including links to authoritative resources. Your post, however, was full of conjecture, unsubstantiated statements and ungrounded accusations generally in favour of the argument that the risk of contracting a serious STI is miniscule. What you've heard in response has been dull shock and dismay and now it appears that you want others to do your work for you, to prove you wrong. That's not going to happen.

 

I've been a paid companion for over a decade and have heard the "minimal risk" argument at least once a week, and frequently far more often. I find it personally offensive and insensitive because it doesn't take into account the reality of my life and working conditions. For many men, the risk of contracting an STI from a woman my be relatively low, given that they may have only a few sex partners a year, or less. But for paid companions, the risk is exponentially higher because of the number of partners we encounter in a month, a year or a lifetime.

 

Let's say that we're in a room with 100 other people. One person has a gun with two bullets in it and that he fires both of them. A lot of people may reckon that they have a 2% chance of being hit; they feel pretty safe, overall. Others may say that they don't want to be anywhere near that room, let alone in it, no matter how many other people are there because there's a guy, with a gun, and he's shooting bullets!

 

But for me, it's my room. I entertain the whole crowd here, and I never know which of them has the gun. Most of the time, the one with the gun doesn't know he has it, either.

 

Do your own research. Then reflect on what you read. Be humane. Have empathy. Be compassionate.

 

And this Miss Samantha is why you are so precious to me and CERB...

 

cat

[Guest d**eye***y]

I think people are misreading my message.

 

all i am saying is:

bbfs is very risky (dont do it, and i would never do it or ask for it)

bbbj is less risky than bbfs but not riskless (I would not ask for it or expect it)

sex with condom is much less risky than bbfs but still a very small risk

anal sex has higher transfer rate of stds than vaginal and oral due to the biology of these areas.

hiv is a complex disease and difficult to transmit. not saying it is not possible through bbbj. For transmission there needs to be someone infected, and transfer of blood, enough blood and it has to go into the blood stream. This is pretty much impossible though the stomach. This is less likey for oral. Not impossible.

yes a paid companion's risk level is higher, I will not disagree, due to basic math and other factors, higher level of partners etc.

at the same time, paid companions seem to take precautions that say a regular partner may not, who has had several other partners who may or may not have always taken precautions.

i am not trying to downplay the risk of contracting anything, but merely making a statement that is based on statistics. 1 in 300 americans have hiv. that puts your chance at 1 in 300 for random sex. On top of that, based on opinion of the general scientific community, sex with an infected person (hererosexual, non-anal sex without condom) puts the risk of transmission at about 1 in 300 to 1 in 1000 depending on what study you read (this is not miniscule like you state i am saying, however it is not what most people think the transmission rate is). There are also studies of married monogomous couples, where one is hiv pos and the other is not, where there has been no transfer of the virus after years of sex.

Blood transfusion, needles, and anal sex put that risk as much higher. This is statistical fact based on the cases that public health sees in various metropolis areas of Canada and US. The records are readily available online.

I am not trying to offend anyone, but these are facts. Sorry if I have offended you and the risks you take everyday. I have made no accusations against anyone. Yes, you are at more risk because of your profession, and i respect what anyone chooses to do for a living. However if you take precautions and are safe, you are less at risk doing what you do than people who sleep around and don't use protection. I am on your side, you seem to think i am trying to promote the opinion that sex does not have to be safe and that there are no risks in your profession. I am merely stating statistics, you are responding in an emotional way.

I understand your analogy, but it does not really apply here. if someone points a gun directly at you and shoots you, you have a high chance of getting shot, and killed, almost 100%. Forget the room full of men for now.

If you have 'regular' sex with an know infected person (hiv, in place of gun), transfer is not guaranteed. Again, it is a complex disease and transfer rate is about 1 in 300 (as per the scientific community). You can look this up yourself. This is not my research, it is what is commonly thought of as the transfer/risk rate.

Anyway, the point is that it can happen at anytime. So be safe and respect everyone's limitations. Again i am not trying to downplay the risks and severity of this disease, nor promote unsafe sex, sex should always be done safely, but please do read up on these things before you accuse me of being some troll.

[1963Kennedy 10698]

Well said Berlin-these individuals-shouldn't be on CERB

 

Oops was trying to add a "Comment" to Berlins post on 1st page; back to FAQ's to try and figure out how.

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

Really???

curious to know what part you think is 'shit"

so some reading on the subject and come up with facts that refute anything I said.

 

What I took issue with was the incredibly homophobic, sex-negative, and whorephobic approach you took in your post. To recap:

 

I would guess that practically everyone in porn has or has had an std. at least one of the common ones.

I would love to see your stats on this "guess" of yours. Stoya is a well-spoken porn actor who speaks to this subject quite frequently: http://stoya.tumblr.com/post/32205235912/testing-vs-condoms-in-pornography

 

Hiv again is another story. there is very little of it in the porn industry strangely enough, because again it is hard to transmit (via heterosexual sex), and really not that common in the hetero/anglosaxon world. And the odd dude who has contracted it 'heterosexually' is probably lying because he decided to experiment with gay sex but it was easier to blame it on the hot escort or random he picked up at the bar.

Emphasis mine. Racism, homophobia, and assumptions of drug use. Awesome. Again, I would love to see your proof to these claims.

 

Again, i am not saying dont worry about it, but you have a much higher chance of getting a meat and potatoes std, or the girl pregnant, than the std that everyone on the planet has been taught to be comletely petrified of.

What on earth is a "meat and potatoes" std?

 

I think the odds actually are closer to 1 in 1000. Probably why it took majic johnson slam dunking his way through 2,500 women before he contracted it. Consider celebrities such as huge heffner, warren beatty...and others...these guys have self-admittedly bagged hundreds if not thousands of women. Yet no HIV. you would have heard of lawsuits etc etc if this kind of thing happened.

Again with the homophobia. You know that people who have sex with other people of the opposite sex engage in anal sex as well? It's not a "gay thing".

 

A lot of men engaging in the company are not single, they are attached. I am guessing the ones who insist on bareback are the single ones, and the ones you really have to worry about.

Again with the assumptions. Did you know that STIs are on the rise in the senior population, and they have theorized that it is because these individuals who are now finding themselves widowed and are engaging in new sexual relationships were not raised in a culture that promoted condom use and safer sex?

 

btw there have been probably next to 0 documented cases of hiv via oral (and the one suspected case was probably due to the needle sharing afterwards)

Another assumption.

 

Sorry to say, if you are on this board you probably already have hpv or will at some point in the near future.

Sorry, what? Again: source please.

 

Now if your gums are bleeding like crazy or her gums are bleeding or she is on her period (chances are you are not down there with you mouth if she is), cuts, etc etc...it is risky, but straight bbbj for stds is low on the list for contraction.

Actually, the transmission rate is about the same for oral sex on a person with a vagina, whether they are on their menses or not (it is considered a low-risk activity regardless of menses). Source: cdnaids.ca

 

Someone's sexual identity does not put them more or less at risk of contracting an STI, it is the sexual activities they engage in and if they use safer sex practices.

[Lexy Grace 103697]

I find that the mature Sp's are much more careful in garding their health and yours as well!

 

I will have to graciously disagree. Whether the provider is a mature lady or younger, I believe that has no bearing on how careful they may be. Regardless of the providers age, we protect and care for our health and others who we interact with. BBFS is requested a lot but more will decline than those who will give in or offer and in this day and age why on earth would a hobbyist request BBFS and just because a lady is mature dosen't mean she won't oblige or offer BBFS. Age is nothing but a number and a false sense of security. It takes two to have sex and to practice safer sex.:condom:

If a provider becomes ill, we're out of luck and can not earn a living. Why risk that and possible death. No donation is worth that much.

Just my humble thoughts and opinion.

[mormon 110]

We can only hope that all of the ladies continue to blacklist anyone stupid enough to request this activity. I can't understand what is possibly running through the heads of some guys.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I can't comment on the statistics nor do I want to, they seem to vary vastly anyway.However I will say I am familiar with the all the risks involved with all sex practices, these I discuss often with my doctor. What risks I take and my partner take are between me and him, thats our conversation. If you see him thats between you and him and YOUR conversation. What I do is no concern of yours nor is what you do a concern of mine. I can't control it! Do I want providers to be resonsible and safe, of course, but again we are all adults and make our own decisions, hopefully they will be the right ones. What I don't like is hypocrisy and I think condeming one risky behavior while performing another or wanting one performed is hypocritical.But that is just my opinion.:icon_biggrin:

[LuxeMulvari 65764]

to me, i have a live and let live attitude. Im a SAFE GFE, and i don't get mad at ladies providing bbbj's or bbfs, even though i personally feel they both activities have the potential to my health and life at risk. I've learned in this industry that what is right for me may not be right for someone else.

 

As has been stated so many times on here before,by clients and sp's alike, a ladies body is her decision, its her business and she can run it how she see's fit.

 

That being said, I don't understand how its not ok to judge or shun a lady for providing BBBJ, but it is ok to judge and shun a lady who does BBFS.

 

Just like a BBBJ, if a lady has weighed and judged the risks of BBFS and decides she wants to do it, who am I to say anything?

 

Like as stated in the bbbj thread, if there's a demand for a certain service, the lady can either offer it or not. If business drops off, then "she has a decision to make" as so eloquently stated.

 

If as a safe gfe i cannot ( and do not)judge ladies who do bbbj, how can i or anyone else judge ladies providing bbfs? In my mind that makes no sense.

 

We cannot say it's ok to judge in one situation but not another. To me a bbbj is just as scary as bbfs. However, i understand that the women providing both of these services have weighed and judged the risks in their minds, and decided that for whatever reason they want to provide them. That is their choice and I respect it. I have no right to judge anyone.

 

There was a time when bbbj was taboo, now it is the norm. Clients ask for it, so ladies oblige. Naturally, now some clients are asking for BBFS, and from the demand, there are some ladies who are just providing what their clients are asking for. We can't pick and choose when its ok to point fingers and when its not.

 

To sum it up, it's your life, do with it as you see fit.

 

everyone can do whatever they want, its a free society!

[Guest t****ster***ke]

i am still waiting on an explanation as to what exactly constitutes a meat and potatoes STD! i know germans are into some different stuff, but meat and potatoes? please tell me we are least letting the gravy boat save some dignity ;)

[crankF 12893]

i am still waiting on an explanation as to what exactly constitutes a meat and potatoes STD! i know germans are into some different stuff, but meat and potatoes? please tell me we are least letting the gravy boat save some dignity ;)

I have an idea re:meat and potatoes std. Years ago in college, in some psych or sociology class, there was a section on std's. We spent most of one lecture watching films showing diseased peters and pussies. I distinctly remember the folks with HPV caused issues, and some of the penises looked like they were covered with cauliflower.

Perhaps a more fitting name for this type of std would be "veg on meat".

[LeeRichards 177238]

[VedaSloan 119179]

homophic, racist...lol. wow. if you only knew, you are so far from the truth it honestly makes you look really really ignorant and immature.

 

 

Funny, she wasn't the only one who thought that--so perhaps you might want to think a bit before you open your mouth and post. The only one who looks ignorant here is you.

[Guest t****ster***ke]

I have an idea re:meat and potatoes std. Years ago in college, in some psych or sociology class, there was a section on std's. We spent most of one lecture watching films showing diseased peters and pussies. I distinctly remember the folks with HPV caused issues, and some of the penises looked like they were covered with cauliflower.

Perhaps a more fitting name for this type of std would be "veg on meat".

 

damn! i like the humor in this one quite a bit! plus, it would be awesome to hear a doctor tell someone, "nurse, i think this is the worst case of veg on meat i've ever seen! get me a stove element, a pot filled with water and a brushed nickel colander - STAT!"

[VedaSloan 119179]

i am still waiting on an explanation as to what exactly constitutes a meat and potatoes STD! i know germans are into some different stuff, but meat and potatoes? please tell me we are least letting the gravy boat save some dignity ;)

 

 

I think maybe he meant something like chlamydia, which I've also heard referred to as the "common cold for your junk."

[Guest M**xE**x]

I think its VERY dangerous!

why gamble with health ever

[Guest t****ster***ke]

I think maybe he meant something like chlamydia, which I've also heard referred to as the "common cold for your junk."

 

that makes sense, though it's slightly less funny. actually, common cold for your junk is pretty funny too. if buckley's formula made the cure for chlamydia - perfection!