A scary subject: BBFS

[Phaedrus 209521]

i am still waiting on an explanation as to what exactly constitutes a meat and potatoes STD!

 

If your meat looks like potatoes, you've probably got one. :)

[crankF 12893]

HPV can cause CAULIFLOWER COCK.

[WarrenTanner 110]

An SP who offers BBFS is one I would never trust or go to.

[Peter Smith 808]

I would never ask for BBFS, to do so is just showing total disrespect for the SP and the rest of we hobbyist. I recently had a SP offer it to me, man I almost ran out of the place naked. Guys don't be stupid, don't ruin it for both the SP's and the hobbyists.

 

Additional Comments:

I would never ask for BBFS, to do so is just showing total disrespect for the SP and the rest of we hobbyist. I recently had a SP offer it to me, man I almost ran out of the place naked. Guys don't be stupid, don't ruin it for both the SP's and the hobbyists.

[BootyLoving 2441]

I've had bbfs before, best years of my sexlife. Aren't girlfriends great ... Cream pie!

[fortunateone 156618]

WIth all due respect that does not answer my question. It appears that everyone agrees that BBFS = BBBJ, ie the risks are the same.

 

If you agree with this, and I do not, why is one accepted on this board and the other is not?

 

I honestly believe if BBFS started to be acceptable on this board most of you would cease to be a member immediately, but you appear to be ok with BBBJ's.

 

I think if you want to have a responsible talk about sex practices using facts is better than spreading fear.

 

 

You can't really generalize. For my own opinion stated in the past as well, and from what I can read by Alyssa, and even others who have admitted succumbing to the pressure to do bbbjs, many do not find bbbjs risk level acceptable at all. We don't admin the board and we don't get to decide what is or is not acceptable. There are quite a few ads that say 'No restrictions' from time to time, a code generally understood to be referring to bbfs, but admin on many sites disagree that No Restrictions means BBFS is available, so what can you do?

 

If you have some facts to support your statement that someone posting about the risks being similar and the same for different stds is not telling the truth and/or fear mongering, please provide a link to back that up.

 

Talking about the facts that stds are very common in giving bbbjs is having a responsible talk about safe sex. I am always curious when someone comes along to try to debate it.

 

With sps who provide the service, they have acknowledged that they know and understand the risks and whether they feel comfortable, pressured, or forced by financial circumstances, it is something that they have chosen to provide regardless of the known risks. I don't like to get into a debate about how bbbjs = bbfs, I don't provide either one of them because I personally have looked at the risks as comparable and unacceptable.

 

It would be my pleasure to see any and all ad sites to forbid the discussion of high risk services, which I include rimming, bbbj, cim, cof, etc. In fact there are a lot of sites that forbid posting any sexual services in ads at all.

[Alyssa Staxxx 4412]

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm

 

http://sexualhealthontario.ca/

 

http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsforstds/a/oralsexsafesex.htm

 

Please accept my apologies for highjacking this thread...I didn't mean to...I was just pointing out and still stand behind my statement, that if STDs/STIs are a concern regarding BBFS, then you have to acknowledge that BBBJs "are just as scary and equally unsafe", if you are worried about STD/STI contraction and transmission....the risks you are willing to take are your own but the facts don't change, in fact, the more research that is done, the more the medical field is discovering that oral sex is not as safe as everyone generally thinks.

 

This is not a statement of judgement on either act.

[roonowen44 110]

Thanks for the info Alyssa

[roamingguy 300292]

Just a dumb question, consider it part of the education of a naive boy from smalltown OntarioLOL. How prevalent in the escort world is it having SP's offerring bbfs. I'm not looking for bbfs but since Feb 2010 when I first forayed into this lifestyle by joining CERB and July 2010 when I had my first encounter I have never seen a lady that advertises bbfs. So I'm wondering is it just an aberration in this lifestyle or a real risk something to be concerned about. Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong, oops change that, I'm looking in all the right spots when seeking companionship, because none of the ladies I see or plan to see advertise bbfs

Just a question of curiousity, because I've never seen it advertised, nor has a lady ever offerred bbfs in an encounter, and I'd run like hell if it was offerred

RG

[Alyssa Staxxx 4412]

Sorry, my comment was cut off below within your post...

 

I wanted to say that the more demand for this service, I'm afraid, the more that will change.

 

 

Just a dumb question, consider it part of the education of a naive boy from smalltown OntarioLOL. How prevalent in the escort world is it having SP's offerring bbfs. I'm not looking for bbfs but since Feb 2010 when I first forayed into this lifestyle by joining CERB and July 2010 when I had my first encounter I have never seen a lady that advertises bbfs. So I'm wondering is it just an aberration in this lifestyle or a real risk something to be concerned about. Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong, oops change that, I'm looking in all the right spots when seeking companionship, because none of the ladies I see or plan to see advertise bbfs

Just a question of curiousity, because I've never seen it advertised, nor has a lady ever offerred bbfs in an encounter, and I'd run like hell if it was offerred

RG

[roamingguy 300292]

Sorry, my comment was cut off below within your post...

 

I wanted to say that the more demand for this service, I'm afraid, the more that will change.

 

Well again maybe it's the naive gentleman in me but if ladies collectively refused bbfs and treated those men who pressure ladies to provide bbfs as bad dates maybe soon the demand would stop.

But no matter what, irrespective of what a man would like, a ladies' boundaries must always be respected and no lady should be pressured to do something she doesn't want to do

Coming from a boy from smalltown Ontario who not only couldn't and wouldn't ask for bbfs

but couldn't envision pressuring a lady to do anything she doesn't want to do

RG

[SamanthaEvans 166767]

Well again maybe it's the naive gentleman in me but if ladies collectively refused bbfs and treated those men who pressure ladies to provide bbfs as bad dates maybe soon the demand would stop.

But no matter what, irrespective of what a man would like, a ladies' boundaries must always be respected and no lady should be pressured to do something she doesn't want to do

Coming from a boy from smalltown Ontario who not only couldn't and wouldn't ask for bbfs but couldn't envision pressuring a lady to do anything she doesn't want to do

RG

 

I think where the pressure comes from is an interesting question, RG. Whether sex workers' collective refusal to provide some experiences would make a difference is also an interesting question.

 

I'm sure that just about all of the ladies on this board are asked to provide BBFS sometimes. While I wish that one could say that the gentlemen who seek the companionship of ladies who charge above a particular price point are unlikely to see those who charge less, there's no reason to assume this is true. That may be one of the reasons that the expectation doesn't go away.

 

In Vancouver, BBFS is available from women who work outdoors, particularly near the end of the month, which is also a time when the rates they charge for various services drops considerably. I have spoken with many outdoor workers. They say they offer BBFS when they have an urgent need for money to pay the rent or to provide basics for their children. The majority are on social assistance, often because they have young children, but also because of mental health issues and/or addictions that make them unemployable. Welfare rates in B.C. are the among the lowest in the country while housing is more expensive here than anywhere else in Canada. Social assistance here may not cover the cost of housing, let alone groceries and other necessities. The B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS reported in 2009 that 26% of Vancouver's street-based sex workers had HIV/AIDS. Other estimates are as high as 50%. Whether the workers became infected through sharing needles or from sexual contact is very difficult to determine.

 

I'm sure that many, if not most, of the outside workers are not in a position to refuse to offer BBFS some of the time.

 

Having seen the cars driven by many men who pick up street workers, I'm pretty sure that most could afford to pay more, but choose not to.

 

There's no question that the encounters I offer are markedly different from an encounter with an outside worker. Nevertheless, depending on what a prospective client is looking for, these differences may not be significant to him and so he may be willing to see me or one of my colleagues sometimes and one of our outside-working colleagues at other times.

 

It could be that one of the significant differences between me and a woman who works outside is that I do feel I can afford to turn away someone who asks for BBFS.

[sprinter29 120]

Unprotected service a big NO. I must say anyone asking or offering BBFS should be blacklisted.

[Guest]

Let's take a look at some of the risks that are involved in partaking in and giving a sexual service. As stated before on these threads, it's different levels of risks. This is something everyone should be thinking about when partaking in escorting or even having sex with people outside the sexual community. I still don't have charts of how these risks are ranked and would appreciate it if someone could find a chart that might have this information on it. When I was doing my research Y.M.M.V.(your mileage may vary) kept coming to my mind about the information about kissing, digits and even about oral sex. I just wanted to focus on foreplay or the things we do before sex. If I missed something or if something is wrong please post some facts to share with everyone. I have pasted my opinion along with opinions of others from the threads I have posted here.

 

 

Kissing

 

 

http://www.health.arizona.edu/health_topics/sexual_health/kissing.htm

 

 

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/hiv-kissing

 

 

It seems like kissing is a very low risk activity. It would seem that the only cause for concern would be open sores from herpes. In both articles it says to avoid kissing anyone with sores on their mouth. However, even tho H.I.V. is a very low, low risk, you can catch H.I.V. blood to blood contact. So if both partners have cuts on their moth this can be a possibility no matter how low the risk is.

 

 

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) considers open-mouth kissing low-risk for transmitting HIV, especially if both partners are without sores or cuts on the mouth or lips. Saliva has certain proteins that make it an extremely poor carrier of HIV. As a result, kissing, sucking, and licking the lips, mouth, and tongue are basically safe."

 

 

"Blood, however, is an ideal carrier for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, and if anybody's blood enters the equation (or a mouth), things can get more complicated. The CDC has reported one case that suggests a woman contracted HIV through exposure to her partner's contaminated blood during open-mouth kissing. If an infected partner has blood in his or her mouth, an open-mouth kiss could lead to transmission of the virus through the other partner's mucous membrane lining the inside of the mouth. If the receiving partner has mouth or lip abrasions (i.e., serious gum disease, cuts, open sores, cold sores), the virus has a better chance of being absorbed. Since extended periods of oral exploration can potentially damage the mouth and lips, causing such abrasions, the CDC recommends against open-mouthed kissing with an HIV-positive partner."

 

 

Fingering/hand jobs

 

 

http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsforstds/f/fingering.htm

 

 

http://gayteens.about.com/od/safesexstds/f/std_hand_job.htm

 

 

http://www.thebody.com/content/2308/frequently-asked-questions-about-hivaids.html?getPage=3#fingering

 

 

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Could-I-have-contracted-STD-through-kissing-and-touching/show/503455

 

 

It would seem that fingering/hand jobs are fairly safe. It is important to keep your hands clean and very important to not touch your genitals and then touch your partners genitals(it's very rare case to catch a bug this way). The main thing the articles explain is to watch out for cuts, open wounds or sores because H.I.V. can again be transferred by blood to blood contact. So if you have a cut and they have a cut then....

 

 

"For example, if you were to get vaginal secretions directly in a fresh open cut on your hands, there would be a possibility of infection. But there would be an even greater possibility of infection if vaginal secretions were to get onto a mucous membrane like the mouth or the head of the penis. So don't panic if you get vaginal secretions or semen on your hands. The skin on your hands is much thicker than the linings made of mucous membranes. The thicker the skin, the less the chance for abrasions and

cuts.

 

 

Fingering is normally not a high risk activity for HIV. All anyone can say is that if there is a fresh open cut on the finger, see above), then there would be some risk of infection if blood, semen, or vaginal secretions had a direct access to that opening. But the risk is less than intercourse or giving oral sex. That's all anybody could ever say on this issue. It is normally a low risk activity for HIV."

 

Blow jobs/vaginal oral sex.

 

 

http://aids.about.com/cs/safesex/a/oralsex.htm

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm

 

 

http://www.healthcentral.com/genital-herpes/c/18559/69243/shaving

 

 

http://www.thestdproject.com/stds-shaving-waxing-vajazzling/

 

 

The experts are constantly saying that oral sex is a low risk activity on their threads(lower than vaginal or anal sex) but in cases people have been known to catch something. The way a lady can catch a bug through receiving oral is if she has cuts on her vagina and if her partner has has bleeding gums(which can go undetected sometimes, flossing teeth can cause this) or by open sores. The way a lady can catch something by giving oral is through per-ejaculation and of course cuts/sores(blood to blood contact), but it states it is an extremely lower risk than vaginal or anal sex. Now, a good thing to think about is most of us shave or wax our little kitty and when we do this we create little cuts down there. I don't know how long it takes for these cuts to fully heal but it might be the same kind of idea as flossing your teeth before sex. I can understand that oral sex would have more risks due to genital secretions, however, it seems like the experts are saying that there's nothing to be alarmed of. They are, however, saying that it is a good idea to use a condoms and or dental dams to increase your safety but it is your personal choice to use them or not.

 

 

"Oral-Penile Contact (fellatio)

 

 

Theoretical Risk:With fellatio, there is a theoretical risk of transmission for the receptive partner because infected pre-ejaculate ("pre-cum") fluid or semen can get into the mouth. For the insertive partner there is a theoretical risk of infection because infected blood from a partner's bleeding gums or an open sore could come in contact with a scratch, cut, or sore on the penis.

 

 

Documented Risk: Although the risk is many times less than anal or vaginal sex, HIV has been transmitted to receptive partners through fellatio, even in cases when insertive partners didn't ejaculate."

 

 

"Oral-Vaginal Contact (cunnilingus)

 

 

Theoretical Risk:Cunnilingus carries a theoretical risk of HIV transmission for the insertive partner (the person who is licking or sucking the vaginal area) because infected vaginal fluids and blood can get into the mouth. (This includes, but is not limited to, menstrual blood). Likewise, there is a theoretical risk of HIV transmission during cunnilingus for the receptive partner (the person who is having her vagina licked or sucked) if infected blood from oral sores or bleeding gums comes in contact with vulvar or vaginal cuts or sores.

 

 

Documented Risk:The risk of HIV transmission during cunnilingus is extremely low compared to vaginal and anal sex. However, there have been a few cases of HIV transmission most likely resulting from oral-vaginal sex."

 

 

"Oral Sex and the Risk of HIV Transmission

 

 

The risk of HIV transmission from an infected partner through oral sex is much less than the risk of HIV transmission from anal or vaginal sex. Measuring the exact risk of HIV transmission as a result of oral sex is very difficult. Additionally, because most sexually active individuals practice oral sex in addition to other forms of sex, such as vaginal and/or anal sex, when transmission occurs, it is difficult to determine whether or not it occurred as a result of oral sex or other more risky sexual activities. Finally, several co-factors may increase the risk of HIV transmission through oral sex, including: oral ulcers, bleeding gums, genital sores, and the presence of other STDs. What is known is that HIV has been transmitted through fellatio, cunnilingus, and anilingus."

 

"Other STDs Can Also Be Transmitted From Oral Sex

 

In addition to HIV, other STDs can be transmitted through oral sex with an infected partner. Examples of these STDs include herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, genital warts (HPV), intestinal parasites (amebiasis), and hepatitis A."

[APower20 400]

I would kind of hope that ladies that offer this service are listed here, so that the rest of us can avoid them. I would certainly not want to be putting my genitals anywhere near someone with HIV or any STI/STD, even with a condom and hazmat suit on.

 

Not that having condom-less sex with many strange men means you automatically get loads of crazy genitals-falling-off related diseases...but the risk does go up considerably and I think us hobbyists should be made aware of what we're putting ourselves into.

 

Not saying ladies should document their bodily functions, but just say that they do/do not offer this service. Obviously there's the risk of us gents having whacky warts or worse, but I would hope that most of us would be honest about these things (both with ourselves and potential sexual partners) and either seek treatment, aim for less risky forms of sexual contact, or avoid sexual contact altogether.

 

We're all educated adults, quite aware of potential risks, and choose to either "do it" or not. That said, a little notice that you're offering this service will help us choose whether or not we want to be at greater risk.

 

EDIT: I think I just said the same thing four times in four paragraphs. Oops.

[mrgreen760 37785]

After reading threads like these I will altering my BFE for sure.

 

 

Peace

MG

[fortunateone 156618]

Chart for everyone, but I think someone was specifically asking for it a few posts ago.

 

http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

 

 

I want everyone to repeat after me, 10 times, then write it out 1000 times, over and over until we all get this one significant point:

 

HIV/AIDS IS NOT THE ONLY STI/DISEASE YOU CAN GET OR PASS WITH UNPROTECTED SEXUAL ACTIVITIES.

 

Personally I think that people who support the bbbjs/bbfs seem to miss this one important fact. Condoms are not only about prevention of HIV/Aids, but every other thing out there, some of which can be with you forever, and many of which, if you are a sex worker, can put you out of business either forever (because you pass it forward) or for one to two weeks during treatment.

 

Chlamydia is not a joke. Gonorrhea is not a joke. Syphillis is not a joke. All 3 of those things can enter and infect the throat, and none of those things get into the throat by bbfs.

 

 

I was going to add to Samantha's post the point that not just SWs are likely to give into pressure for bbfs for financial need, but that there are enough stories about 'high end' escorts doing the same, usually after an exchange of test results, but still available. I have no idea what motivates sps who are intelligent and educated enough to run their own business, but fatally flawed enough to provide this as a perk to one (yeah right) special client, as tho they fear losing him as a client.

 

Then there are the ones from out of the country, who didn't have the benefit of the education, but believe what they are told, who figure that it seems to be a perk out here, something like greek they can get an extra 40 on top of the little amount they get to keep of that 100/45 minute appt.

 

Is it common out here, probably not as easily obtainable as it seems to be in other cities, but it is still done by the full spectrum, upper class, middle class, lower class, and street workers.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

If I am reading the chart right it confirms what I had read in a number of places that Daty is relatively safe or very low risk but bbbj has higher risks. So I think when we speak about oral sex risks in general we need to distinguish between daty and bbbj both being oral sex. As for OP on bbfs, my only comment, It is passed the risk lol, it is Suicidal in a most painful way.

[BootyLoving 2441]

 

I was going to add to Samantha's post the point that not just SWs are likely to give into pressure for bbfs for financial need, but that there are enough stories about 'high end' escorts doing the same, usually after an exchange of test results, but still available. I have no idea what motivates sps who are intelligent and educated enough to run their own business, but fatally flawed enough to provide this as a perk to one (yeah right) special client, as tho they fear losing him ...

 

Interesting ... Even between couples in a regular relationship, exchange of test result is the only way to mitigate the risk of ate transmission. Even if both parties are virgins, and not user of injection drugs. Sometime std can be passed during birth. If both party actually exchange recent test results, then besides getting pregnant, why would bareback sex be a bad thing?

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

If both party actually exchange recent test results, then besides getting pregnant, why would bareback sex be a bad thing?

 

Because people are not generally monogamous? Especially in this industry. Once the test is taken, it takes a couple of weeks for the results to come back. Who was your partner seeing in that period of time from when the test was administered and now? The test results only indicate that on the date the test was administered, you were clear, but if you had any high risk activity after the test, that won't show up until your next test.

[BootyLoving 2441]

So the risk is still high and I shouldn't drive because there are Asian drivers on the road.

 

But taken back into context of the citizen of this site, myself included, monogamy is out the window.

[roamingguy 300292]

Interesting ... Even between couples in a regular relationship, exchange of test result is the only way to mitigate the risk of ate transmission. Even if both parties are virgins, and not user of injection drugs. Sometime std can be passed during birth. If both party actually exchange recent test results, then besides getting pregnant, why would bareback sex be a bad thing?

 

Because even in a supposed monogamous relationship, how do you know for fact, that your partner is faithful (yuk hate using morally laden terms here, and no, not passing judgement) He/she can say he/she is faithful when in fact is having an affair. And even knowing your sexual health, you only take your partners' word that he/she is STD/STI free, your partner takes his/her partners' word and so on and so on. The only absolute safe sex is celibacy, and that breeds loneliness which has IMHO and experience negative health consequences too

Bottom line, you are responsible for your own sexual health. If I, god forbid, should ever test positive for an STD/STI I would let my partners, the wonderful ladies of CERB know, so they can get tested and treated.

BTW I can trace back all my partners for three years (since I embarked on this wonderful lifestyle) and I have fond memories of most of my encounters

And no one is to blame here,if one gets an STD/STI so no passing the blame game, we are all equal players in this lifestyle

A rambling

RG

[mrgreen760 37785]

Like it or not as with everything ultimately the market decides all. From services offerred to pricing the market dictates everything.

 

Peace

MG

[SamanthaEvans 166767]

Lets look into the diseases that are associated with oral sex(especially oral given and taken by a man without a condom). There might be more std's associated with oral sex but I am focusing on the std's on the chart below. If I missed something or if something is wrong please post the right information along with some useful facts. It says that most of the diseases are curable except for Herpies, Hepatitis and HPV(warts). It's deciding if the risks are worth it or not for each individual but I like to look the facts in the face rather than sweep them under the carpet.

 

Peachy, many websites haven't updated their information about gonorrhea, yet, but it's very important to note that it can no longer be considered automatically to be curable. I posted info about this in the other thread. Gonorrhea has been building resistance to antibiotics since the 1940s. That these incurable cases were discovered in Toronto is a good indication that this form of gonorrhea will soon be found across the country.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I don't even know why what others do sexually has become a concern. I understand wanting to inform one another about the risks of some sex acts, but I think the best and only person we all should be discussing this with is our doctors. They should be the ones to inform me/you as to all the risks involved with all sex practices you/me participate in.

To be concerned about what others are doing is impractical, unproductive and pointless, you can't control it. It's like wanting everyone to drive the speed limit each time you get into your car- you can want and wish but it's not going to cause it to happen. The best we all can do is get tested appropriately, be very open with your md about how many people you do engage with and decide what risks you and your partner are willing to take. Other than that I really don't see the point in being concerned with what anyone else is doing.:icon_biggrin:But thats just how I see it.