Family Member's Work Cell Phone Flagged by DND Because of my Phone Number

[Andee 220524]

I was debating whether to post this, but because it happened to me, I feel justified in doing so. I would like to inform any hobbysts who may work for the Federal Government (at least in the Ottawa area) the embarrassment that my sister’s boyfriend went through recently when he was hauled up on the carpet by his superiors and questioned as to why he was calling “escort agencies”.

 

You see he has a cell phone issued to him for work and “reasonable” personal use. I wouldn't have normally called him, but my sister didn't have her phone with her that day and we all arranging to meet.

 

I made 3, very quick phone calls in a half hour period. All were “incoming” to his phone. Apparently my cell phone number was “flagged” as belonging to an “escort agency” as his boss put it, although he thought it was ridiculous that the higher ups would think he was trying to acquire the services of an escort with 3, 20 second incoming calls.

 

Also, not sure how they verified my name to my cell phone number through Bell Mobility. I didn't think they could disclose that information, but apparently they did.

 

Flagged, yes, flagged. Apparently a journalist exercising his right to freedom of information, questioned this particular government department on how much of tax-payers money was being spent per month on cell phone usage for members using their phones for sex-related services (escorts, sex chat lines).

 

From what I was told, some do-gooder who worked there (who apparently has “No life”) took it upon himself to scour the different web-sites, print ads, yellow pages, and etc. for phone numbers, plugged them into a database and when cell phone bills were arriving, did an electronic check. If any numbers cross-referenced, bingo!

 

Luckily, these family members knows what I do and are cool with it. He told them that it was my phone (his sister-in-law) and he had no idea what kind of business if any I was involved with related to that number. In other words, none-of-your-friggin business.

 

My sister just happens to work in the dept. as him so not believing him at first, they held him in this room until they brought her up and were hoping they were going to catch some cheating guy in the act.. They showed her my number and she verified belonged to me.

 

Then I find out later, that they also verified through Bell Mobility that the phone belonged to me, and not “some escort agency” as they put it and issued an apology to both of them and removed my number from this database.

 

So, SPs of Ottawa, your number is probably in there too. If you have any clients who work for the government who have work-issued cell phones, encourage them “not” to call you from them.

[MacS 100]

Hehya Angela;

 

While I am am not a SME (Subject Matter Expert) with regards to this, I can shed some light.

 

An `employer` does not have the authority to contact Bell with any request any information beyond what one could find via a 411.ca reverse search - where u can key in a number & get the name of the person who called. So if it was an employee of a `particular employer` who contacted Bell, they only confirmed whose name belonged to the number - something anyone can do, under special circumstances.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to send a pm.

 

 

Mac

[JuliaOttawa 131]

Angela - May I ask how your phone number was acquired? If you post your phone number in a public manner, I don't believe your private information was compromised.

 

However, I do think what they did to your sister's boyfriend was unreasonable. If the phone is permitted to be used for private reasons, then it should be none of their business whether he uses his phone to call a friend or an escort. That being said, the exceptions would of course be illegal services (which, of course, offering companionship for money and private arrangements of sexual services for money are not) or abuse, eg. if he used his phone to talk to escorts all day every day.

 

I'm sorry your family went through this.

[Andee 220524]

My phone number could have been acquired from the websites I advertise on. That's why it was put into the database.

 

When I was talking about my privacy, I meant Bell Mobility giving out my name...I wondered if they are allowed to reveal who's number that is? I thought cell phone numbers were unpublished. Perhaps they're not.

 

I guess the Military are still in the dinosaur age and do not consider this to be "reasonable" use for personal calls. Since they are charged by the minute, it's not unreasonable to expect the holder of the phone limit personal calls.

 

As I said, this all started because some journalist got wind that soldiers were using their cell phones to call (mostly) chat lines.

 

I reminds me of a few years back hearing about some SPs who tried to set up business in Pembroke and getting run out of town basically by the wives and "morality" groups because once the soldiers found out, word got around like wildfire. I think the girls lasted 4 or 5 days or something like that.

 

I guess some people like this journalist want to raise a fuss or create a scandal probably because there isn't enough interesting news to report on. Who knows? Not sure if the access to information request was limited to Ottawa area or not.

 

:evil:

[Guest S*rca****sid]

I believe that if any government employee has been given the use of a work cell phone they shouldn't be using it for anything outside normal use. As for the reporter, anyone has the right to know where public funds are being spent. I know I want to know how much money is being spent by the government and where it goes.

One other point comes to mind, as an SP, I would assume that you would use a cell phone for personal use and another one for work?

Using a "throw-a-way" cell there is no need to use your real name.

[d*mm*y 887]

It's not just government cell phones if you work for a fortune 500 company or have a blackberry that points back to a work server for email or data bases etc... you may be watched. For sure get a through away phone. It is as important as getting a hobby email account.

[jughead 45]

How ever the DND got your personal information from Bell Mobility I would guess that it was done was legal.

 

The OPP got my call logs from Bell Mobility, A friend of mine was cheating on his wife, he got caught. His now the EX-wife at teh time was pissed I mean really pissed he got kicked out on his ear and I accused my of making threating phone calls to her. The investigating office got my call logs becasue it was a crimanial investigation. Too bad for her one cannot make or recieve call on an phone turn off. My call long reflected that no calls in or out that day. The OPP went back to my friends now ex-wife and said next time you lie and file a false report you will be charged, so needless to say I do not speak to her anymore.

 

Cell phone are getting easier to get a hold, I can walk into Macs and buy one activate it over a land line or on the internet they only know what you tell them.

 

I even buy used phones at Pawn shop (easier to find but more money) yard sales, thrifts shops and such. I only buy Roger, fido, Virgin phone now as they can be activated online or over a landline (for free) I use perpaid cell cards.

 

I even watch for clearence sales at stores they some time offer phones for $20 or $30 and some of them give you either a prepaid card with it or a instant credit. I buy these for gifts for family or friends.

 

I will not buy used Bell Mobility phones as they charge to re-activate a used phone, but they some time have a clearance section on there web site and one ca get a good deal on a older model withless option it.

 

I once had a cell phone actived for a different location, That way I had a local numbers for my friends to call me instend of them calling long distance all the time, worked great. Gave it away on the way out of town.

 

Someone else has suggest that if a person has a cellphone that uses a sim card to just get anothe sim card. That works for getting the calls off the :family" or Busniess" phone log and onto a private one. I will also work for going to a diffeetne city or province. The down side is that you can only use one at a time.

[alinan 118]

there are mutlit sim card phones you can buy out of china. they are almost identical to the iphone in appearance and functionality, just have two SIM slots.

 

IMHO, as much as it sucks, the owner of the phone has the right to know everything about the use of their account. and as a public entity, they have the added responsibility of ensuring that public funds are not being misappropriated.

[misterme 110]

In a few words, what our military does is a matter of public record. Journalists have a right and a responsibility to investigate spending of the public dime.

QED

[etasman2000 15994]

there are mutlit sim card phones you can buy out of china. they are almost identical to the iphone in appearance and functionality, just have two SIM slots.

 

Samsung D880 supports duo SIMs although the reviews of the phone have been average at best. Or use a DuoSim adapter.

[trucido peritus lingua 2699]

Having been a snivelling servant for decades and have in my possession a government cell phone for as long I can remember, abuses are not as common as people think. Do they occur? Yes, just as in any other business. What gets peoples' knickers in a knot is when it happens on the public dime. Is the government cautious with cell phone service? Yes. Years ago when I first got a cell phone, monthly bills were circulated back and we were expected to cut a cheque to the Receiver General of Canada for any non-government related calls. This stopped when they found out that it was more costly to pay for a clerk to process all of the paperwork. Since then, bulk plans have made it so that it is not worth chasing down all of the calls. Do they monitor? Yes they can and with computers and databases it?s easy. For less than $200K a year, you can get a monthly electronic subscription to all the numbers in Canada. As for providing information on who made the calls, cell phone companies will provide this information because government cell phone contracts are lucrative. They are not going to jeopardize the business by withholding information.

To get back to Angela?s' original post, the cell phone is government property, they are paying for the service and they are entitled to question any call. The policy to allow personal calls is a department?s prerogative. Let?s be clear here, if the calls are excessive, your privileges will be curtailed. I knew of a case where even the land line to an employee's desk was yanked. How superiors deal with staff varies. Angela?s bothers' experience proves that there are pricks in the government. Generally, issues are dealt with a discrete discussion ending with the person being told, "we are watching you". Let?s face it, anyone who owns a business realizes that phones cut into profits, wouldn't you be monitoring? As a taxpayer, I am glad the government is monitoring for abuses?

Ultimately, it is because of other people who abuse the system that caused Angela?s' bother to be caught up. How he was treated was wrong. In our department, we would investigate further before raking someone over the coals, because innocent people do get caught up in monitoring.

As for me, I just started to venture into SPs and knowing what I know, I will be damned if I will use my government cell to book appointments. I don't abuse my phone and I don't care to have to deal with the hassle of explaining calls. To mitigate, I spent $50 to get a booty call cell phone and spend $12.50 a month to maintain. Obviously, this is not the answer to Angela?s brother?s problem and I feel bad for him. What has to change is how employers deal with employees, especially to ensure that real abuse has occurred before confronting staff.

[caveman 147]

When I was talking about my privacy, I meant Bell Mobility giving out my name...I wondered if they are allowed to reveal who's number that is? I thought cell phone numbers were unpublished. Perhaps they're not.

 

 

Unpublished isn't the same as "private". Just because they don't print up a book with cell phone numbers, doesn't mean there's anything stopping them telling someone about a number. Also, if the request was coming from a "government official", they may have just handed it over.

 

In general, I don't believe Canada has the same level of privacy protection that they have in the US, and it's a pretty huge issue (just not one that anyone seems to be dealing with). Don't kid yourself about having any privacy -- if the government really wants to know something about you, they can find out. I know that makes me sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'm really not... :-)

[etasman2000 15994]

In general, I don't believe Canada has the same level of privacy protection that they have in the US, and it's a pretty huge issue (just not one that anyone seems to be dealing with).

 

Quite true......Canada is more stringent, much more stringent compared to the US. The USA Patriot Act tipped that scale.

[A***** A***** 510]

Ultimately, it is because of other people who abuse the system that caused Angela?s' bother to be caught up. How he was treated was wrong. In our department, we would investigate further before raking someone over the coals, because innocent people do get caught up in monitoring.

 

What has to change is how employers deal with employees, especially to ensure that real abuse has occurred before confronting staff.

 

Here here!

[dexterS3 134]

Hi Angel

 

As a person who works for One of the major cell companies We can get fired If we give a number out that is not on there current account whether they have 2 phones or 4000 phones. Not sure how they found out info but i would be contacting them to find out.

IF you want more info about policies PM me.

Hope everything works out.

[Andee 220524]

Yes, my "brother-in-law" was given an apology and told they they shouldn't have jumped to conclusions and accepted his explanation rather than assuming he was lying and having to check it out with my sister.

 

As for my name/number being verified, I agree, who knows what lists my name/number may be published on, out there. At first, it kind of threw me for a loop.

 

Finally, apparently print-outs of my ad were stapled to the paper copy of his phone bill and afterwards when it was settled that the number in the ad belonged to me and what (if anything I was doing) with that number was indeed none of their business, copies of my ad were shredded and discarded.

 

It would have been interesting, a copy of ad stapled to a phone bill and preserved in some civil servant's filing cabinet.

 

We are all over it, and have had a good laugh now about it, but it wasn't so funny when it was happening.

[iwantagoodmp 110]

Exactly why I left DND. THey think they own you. But thanks for the warning it surely will help some people.

[TonyPDaddy 122]

It almost seems surprising to us that things cannot be tracked/traced etc.......As your brother worked for DND he would know that or should know that? especially having a work issued phone.

 

Whatever you do either it would be on the phone/internet or wherever an electronic device is given or used there will always be traceable evidence and you are unlikely to get away from it.........there are many ways too of course as well.

 

I have a hobby phone, email account and many other things and not too mention to "not be caught". As I have a work isued phone, I know that everything is tracked or can be tracked and they will not tell you that either.

 

It does seem surprising to me that they would "call him in" to question him on this matter unless there is a major concern going around. It's not like he is calling Osama or something. They usually stray away from things like this as they do not necessarily want staff knowing the calls are traced in other words. Maybe this was to be set as an example?

 

Everything is tracked through a database once a call is dialed to that button is pressed to hang up the phone...I am sure everyone knows that anyways.

[buggernot 588]

I think people get too up in arms about their employers monitoring what they do and to the breadth that they do it. If you have internet access, email account and/or cell phone that is being paid for by them and is to be used for work purposes, of course it is within their rights to look into that.

 

If I had a buddy that called escorts on the work phone and arranged meets through the company email and did research about it through the employer's internet, I'd probably give him a high 5 followed by a reminder that he was wacked for doing that. If he worked for me, I'd fire his ass for wasting my money. Because I could be spending that on SP's instead...

 

This was a funny story though, Angela...but DND did take it a bit too far. Who knows, maybe some guy concocted some international conspiracy theory and thought you were a modern day Mata Hari? Ooooo, espionage/escort story, exciting!

 

Why do I get the feeling that 5 mins after I post this, the RCMP will be at my door?? And if they come looking for you too, Angela...sorry! ;)

[survived70s 582]

K, this is my first post....

As a civilian member, I see this too often. No one in the public actually asked DND how many members were using DND phones to call escorts. Some people in DIM Secure got carried away with a different request and turned it into something that was never requested.

Why aren't those geniuses working on electronic warefare ? How much did they spend on that useless project ? They are supposed to support military members, not harass them. They sure as heck can't tell anyone that they've got your back ! Thats not support. Shame on them !

[JoyfulC 132299]

It depends on who the employee is and their security clearance. If someone's working with sensitive, classified issues, it may be reasonable for the government employer to be head's up about things like involvements with prostitution, affairs, gambling, even poor credit as all these can render a person more susceptible to blackmail.

[cool cucumber 411]

It's why I haven't used my work cel to make any contacts. The monthly bill has a record of all numbers called and called from. Can affect security clearance and the Public Service "Values and Ethic's" about misuse of government property.

 

And personal cel phone, for same reason. Who knows that a credit card compnay doing a credit check is looking for nowadays? Make most of my connects from web mail accounts and not from my own computer, if I can avoid it. As you can guess, my hobbying is rare. :sad:

[capitalman 3861]

I'm sure there is at least one person out there creating a database of every SP and hobbyist along with web and phone information, photos, ads and anything else he can collect.

 

I shouldn't call him a person, more like a lonely hermit without a life...poor guy.

[laidbackdude 397]

Thanks for sharing, its important info and a good reminder. That being said, 'reasonable personal use' of a government cell phone just means that there is a certain level of tolerance that the government has on how employees use their equipment, i.e. occasional calls to tell someone you're late, going somewhere, etc.,

[YoungStud 468]

On a broader level, it's probably useful to note that any police force or enforcement agency (e.g. CRA, Canadian Border Services, etc.) can go before a judge with probable cause and, if the judge agrees with them, obtain a court order for phone records going back years. There are billions of them on digital file. Every call made on every phone (land-line or cell) in the country. Unlisted numbers, numbers that don't show up on call display, etc. Long distance or local. Doesn't matter. They're all in the phone companies databases. The police or enforcement agencies then just have to tie the records to the illegal activities of one or more individuals to make a case, whatever that case might be.

 

It can't be a "fishing expedition" but documented, focused and targeted probable cause will do the trick for most judges.

 

So, it always pays to be discrete and careful, no matter what you're doing.