Negotiating

[Wolf Knight 29667]

RG, everything you say is absolutely true about a haggler trying to make what really amounts to a trivial monetary gain for himself from a lady at perhaps a vulnerable moment in time. Thankfully there are many gentleman out there who realise this and have enough class, and respect for the wonderful women we have the privilege of knowing try to defend the cause. I realise that men like you and I hold all of the ladies we know with a great deal of importance for the pleasure of the companionship (even friendship) they bring to our lives. So I understand why you choose to fight so hard against apparent disrespect for our friends and their livelihoods. Sadly, there are those "boys" among us that consider the SP's they visit as nothing more than the next cum shot.

 

I have chosen to stay away from this thread beyond my first post because like you I have very strong feelings on this matter that would in all likelihood get me booted off CERB for expressing my real feelings on this matter. I have to agree with Miss Laurence I think you're wasting your valuable time trying to convert those wayward boys to see the ladies many of whom we consider our friends as something more than an object for their use. At this point you're only helping the one trick pony Craigyboy build up his post count.

 

Let it go RG and send some of your friends a thank you for putting up with the bad ones out there so that we can continue to experience the joy they bring to our lives.

 

Cheers from a surprisingly calm Chuck.

 

 

 

As an after thought I decided to add this because there does seem to be a lack of understanding by some of the proponents for Negotiating/Haggling as to why many gentleman and ladies here seem to so vehemently defend our CERB ladies and friends on this issue. You see as a "rule", our Cerb community is one based deeply on respect and a mutual admiration that has built over time. There are many reasons why this has happened however this "Happy Hobbiest" post by Old Dog is a reflection of many of the relationships that have been built here over time. Some relationships going well beyond the physical interaction of clients and SP's to a level of friendship of sorts. If you read this thread you'll get a small glimpse of why some seem to attack you so harshly when it might be seen that you as a negotiator/haggler may not be applying what we deem to be sufficient levels of respect to those we may care about.

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=436687&highlight=heart+attack#post436687

[Guest realnicehat]

The Cerb Negotiating Thread Playlist

 

Now available for download on iTunes!

 

 

What Do You Do For Money Honey - ACDC

Leave Me Alone - Michael Jackson

We Can Work It Out - the Beatles

You Can't Always Get What You Want - the Rolling Stones

I Can't Help Myself - the Four Tops

Wasting My Time - Default

I Won't Back Down - Tom Petty

Let It Go - Luba

Can't Let It Go - Goo Goo dolls

Round Round We Go - Trooper

Beating A Dead Horse - Suns of the Empire

Here We Go Again - Ray Charles/Norah Jones

Will It Go Round In Circles - Billy Preston

Give up & Go Away - Stippers Union Local 518

I'm Outta Here - Shania Twain

 

 

Happy Hump Day

[Guest ***nsut***jr]

God I swore I was done with this

 

RG.... people can choose to read or not read or follow a thread.

So even if we are on page 321 of this thread your post did a great job of reminding us of the "here and now" and what the effects of our actions are whether its to do with haggling with an SP or any other aspect of life.

 

I am pretty sure from what I have read and heard that the ladies do wonder what that guy will really be like when the open the door.

 

When we think about the things you mentioned hopefully they get a surprise to the upside and that may make all the difference in the world as to the type of encounter that you will have.

 

Good post and never too late for enlightenment.

[lipualipua 4704]

@gabriella : please see my last sentence in my immediately-previous post.

[lipualipua 4704]

@meaghanmcleod ; you wrote : ........"no choice but to take that low ball call, because they are desperate enough to see you."

Who or what gives you the right to characterize someone going about her business the way she sees fit as desperate? Please do not disrespect your fellow providers.

As regard your additional comment, yes, I, the buyer of a service or a product get to decide whether the price is excessive based on certain factors like cost of similar products/services.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

In case you have not figured this one out, and I suspect you never will, this is much more then about "OPTIMAZATION OF FINANCIAL RETURNS". This is our body, soul and at times, our lives.

 

To be fair to lipualipua, I think you took his words out of context.

When looking at the business side of things, you always try to optimize and maximize on your financial returns...

[Guest A*ro**n]

Here's a negotiating story for you.

 

I was riding home this afternoon and I heard some girls shouting "Lemonade, lemonade". I looked off to the right and there up ahead was a little girl, probably no more than 4 years old, sitting just back from the road with a sign. Behind her, on the sidewalk, were two other cute little girls operating a lemonade stand.

 

Having developed a thirst on my ride I decided to pull over. I asked the girls how much for a lemonade. $0.25 was the quote I got back. I thought about it for a second. I said, how about $1.00. Immediately all three smiled and I was promptly given a paper cone filled with some fine lemonade. I thanked the girls and got back on my bike. They thanked me and gave me a compliment on my bike. I rode off with a smile.

 

Why pay more? Well I'm a sucker for cute little kids and lemonade stands. I appreciated them running their stand right after a thunderstorm. Plus, I had a whole bunch of loose change in my pannier.

 

All in all, I was very happy with the transaction. Refreshment for the body and soul!

[lipualipua 4704]

@peregrine : good for you. Well done.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Who or what gives you the right to characterize someone going about her business the way she sees fit as desperate? Please do not disrespect your fellow providers.

 

I am the owner of my pussy. I will always try to help those that are being victimized. I hear all the ladies that feel they are being low balled and I will go to bat for them. Everytime. I will take the heat from those that don't seem to understand.

 

As regard your additional comment, yes, I, the buyer of a service or a product get to decide whether the price is excessive based on certain factors like cost of similar products/services.

 

Again, why do you think someones rate is excessive. Your decision to decide someones rate is excessive is really what this thread is all about.

[lipualipua 4704]

"Again, why do you think someones rate is excessive."

 

I believe I have answered you already. Please read my post that responded to your previous one.

[cyclo 30131]

This thread seems to have morphed into a discussion of marketing strategy and more specifically pricing strategy. There are numerous pricing strategies that a business can adopt. Some of them have relevance to this industry, most don't.

 

Selling "Price"

 

If what you are "selling" is "price", it is difficult to be successful in any business. In general you're likely to attract clients who place more importance on low price and less importance on the quality of the service or product. As a result, those clients will generally be on the lookout for a "better" (i.e. lower) price. It makes customer retention difficult and encourages a race to the bottom of the market. Furthermore, in this industry, when a woman has to raise her rates (which has to happen sometime, even though it hasn't happened overall in the industry in quite a while), the client will likely go elsewhere.

 

So if you've reduced prices and therefore your revenue and you don't have any significant cost cutting options to offset the reduced revenue, what do you do? The standard "marketing" response to this situation would be to increase the volume of sales. That's not so easily done in this industry for obvious reasons. Several women in this and other threads have described the unique challenges of being a service provider while maintaining their physical/emotional health and privacy etc. In addition, screening clients has been discussed on numerous occasions as a necessary step for personal safety and security. The higher the volume, the less time there is to do this properly and the greater the risks to the service provider.

 

I think some are arguing that any customers receiving a price cut don't represent revenue loss, they represent new revenue from new customers the service provider wouldn't otherwise have. That's only correct if the service provider wants to increase the number of clients she sees in a day/week. Most commenting on this thread appear to be low volume service providers (whatever that number might be) and prefer to find other ways of optimizing their revenue (e.g. longer appointments, more frequent repeat clients or unique date activities). The whole idea behind the Girl Friend Experience for example is to provide intellectual and emotional interaction with the client that goes beyond just the sexual activity. Many clients place a substantial value on this.

 

What Does Success Look Like?

 

So what does success in a small business look like? The business is sustainable, with good customer retention (loyal regular/occasional customers). The business owner has good control over the costs relative to their revenues. And finally, there has to be sufficient profit to live comfortably. This includes a work life balance allowing sufficient time/money to enjoy recreation, family, friends and save for long term goals (e.g. go to school, start another business etc). Yes, I understand that not everyone is able to achieve all of this in life.

 

It's been noted in previous threads that there is a high turnover of service providers in this industry. Most last only a few months to a couple of years. Most of the women who have posted on this thread however have been in this business for several years. Without knowing all of them personally, they appear by my definition to be successful. In part, though not exclusively, their success appears to be due to sticking with their pricing strategy and understanding who they seek as customers. It also appears to be based upon understanding their clients and being able to add value through services such as GFE. I think they are just trying to communicate an appreciation of that. This forum is unique in that the curtain is drawn back and allows clients to gain some insider appreciation of "the business". I think all business relationships are enhanced when clients have some appreciation of what it takes to achieve and sustain a successful business.

[lipualipua 4704]

@cyclo : I agree with what you have written - and that is why my posts scream the word OPTIMUM. For example as far back as post #152, I wrote : "optimum simply means the most favourable conditions or levels for GROWTH or SUCCESS."

 

I ask readers to go back and read the penultimate paragraph of your post and that as they read this, think of my use of the word optimum as implying all of what is therein contained.

 

Once again, I can't help but express my profound amazement at how people have overlooked this word in my posts.

[Wolf Knight 29667]

@lipualipua..... LOL, Don't go losing faith in humanity yet. :)

 

You chose to stick your neck out and promote a perspective that's extremely unpopular on a very emotionally charged topic. You were bound to get beat up on. You get points for using the word "pontificate" though.

 

Additional Comments:

Now my thoughts on the issue of "excessive" rates. There is no such thing as an excessive rate for a luxury like we are discussing. A ladies rates are just simply her rates. Because one can't afford her rates does not make them excessive, it just simply means that one can't afford them. What she chooses to charge for her time is determined only by that specific lady and what business model she happens to decide works for her life situation. Perhaps she prefers just one or two clients per week at a high rate as opposed to 10 at a lower rate. I would not dispute either model as it's only for her to determine. Could the higher priced lady potentially make more money by dropping her rates and seeing more clients? Yes, perhaps but as cyclo referred to she may have a life situation that dictates that she doesn't have the time or even the emotional ability to be a higher volume provider.

 

Just a thought from Chuck.

[eagertopleaze 2366]

Do you think it is possible that some women here list prices that are on the high end, knowing that it gives them some wiggle room?

[mrgreen760 37785]

Been a member since 2006 and there have been lots of threads I'd describe as train wrecks but this just might be the most train wreckish thread I've seen.....circular, repetitive and one could easily argue......just plain stupid.

 

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance"

 

Peace

MG

[Malika Fantasy 144625]

 

I thought this thread was missing kittens and bums.

I don't feel bad for hijacking it.

[Wolf Knight 29667]

Definitely not, and I'm sure you must have made that post just to see if you could get a rise out of people. Good one though :) I would challenge you to pick any of your so called "high end" ladies and attempt to see if she's got any wiggle room built in. They charge that "high end" rate simply because they know that they can get it from a gentleman like me who enjoys (not just any company) their specific company and can afford their rate.

 

I travel all across the country so experience most of the different major markets so I feel I can speak to this point. Truthfully, I'm not sure where you are looking but I consider $500per hour and up the highend in Canada. Anything below that is pretty much standard rate. Plus rates vary across the country. In St. John's you'll be hard pressed to ever find anyone with rates below $300 with most well above that.

 

Thanks for the smile though. :)

 

Do you think it is possible that some women here list prices that are on the high end, knowing that it gives them some wiggle room?

[mod 135640]

Been a member since 2006 and there have been lots of threads I'd describe as train wrecks but this just might be the most train wreckish thread I've seen.....circular, repetitive and one could easily argue......just plain stupid.

 

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance"

 

Peace

MG

 

A heated debate is fine, a topic like this brings lots of emotion out of people. Calling it stupid and a train wreck and commenting like it is a all out war does not add value to the thread. In the past I would close threads when they got heated to the point some people started name calling or trolling.

 

I (and many others) feel this is a topic that needs to be discussed and it helps educate people. Many guys do not realize how offensive many ladies find it when they try to negotiate rates. This thread will help educate those who don't know (and I know some guys won't care and will continue to do this but if they did not know before at least they will know now)

 

Now I do not approve of hijacking threads (KITTEN/BUM) photo but I will let the one go for now as it was to lighten up the atmosphere but please on serious discussions lets keep that off too please.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

A negotiator, like a cynic, is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Apologies to Oscar Wilde for tweaking his quote.

[lipualipua 4704]

@nlwoodchuck: You wrote : "You chose to stick your neck out and promote a perspective that's extremely unpopular on a very emotionally charged topic. You were bound to get beat up on."

Yes, beat up on unfairly because people have totally missed my message. The key word in my message is the word "optimum" which, for a reason unknown to me, has been disregarded by almost all of those who have contributed to this thread.

 

The problem with my adversaries, if I may call those who hold a view contrary to mine, is that they are thinking only of providers maximizing money earned. This is why the mention of negotiations is anathema to them. "Cyclo" wrote a very pertinent post today and though no mention of the word "optimum" was made, its desirability was affirmed.

 

The fact is attempting to maximize your earnings by having high donations can backfire in the sense that you can price yourself out of the market. Going too low too will mean that your business will not be profitable or will only become so at considerable physical and emotional costs.

 

So, my message is that each provider take a close look at how she can optimize her financial returns and if this at times involves negotiating with a potential client, so be it. Apparently this is a wrong viewpoint to hold.

[Guest ***nsut***jr]

@nlwoodchuck: You wrote : "You chose to stick your neck out and promote a perspective that's extremely unpopular on a very emotionally charged topic. You were bound to get beat up on."

Yes, beat up on unfairly because people have totally missed my message. The key word in my message is the word "optimum" which, for a reason unknown to me, has been disregarded by almost all of those who have contributed to this thread.

 

The problem with my adversaries, if I may call those who hold a view contrary to mine, is that they are thinking only of providers maximizing money earned. This is why the mention of negotiations is anathema to them. "Cyclo" wrote a very pertinent post today and though no mention of the word "optimum" was made, its desirability was affirmed.

 

The fact is attempting to maximize your earnings by having high donations can backfire in the sense that you can price yourself out of the market. Going too low too will mean that your business will not be profitable or will only become so at considerable physical and emotional costs.

 

So, my message is that each provider take a close look at how she can optimize her financial returns and if this at times involves negotiating with a potential client, so be it. Apparently this is a wrong viewpoint to hold.

 

You're shitting us I hope.

[mod 135640]

Undecided if this is troll comment or not but common sense says if anyone prices themselves out of a market they will move to a better market or they will lower rates... But... That has nothing to do with negotiating. Some people have a hard time accepting that others make more income or have more of a entertainment budget then they do. If you can't afford a Lamborghini then buy a corvette (both lots of fun to drive) or save your pennies and eventually you can get what you want.

 

If her rates are too high for you but she stays in business and earns what she wishes to earn that means she has a market that supports her rates without you. Many markets exist in even the smallest cities and towns.

[Two Thirty 1422]

Rather sad, I think, that this topic needs to be aired out. Seeking to negotiate or agreeing to negotiate the donation smacks of cheapness if not desperation. How could either of these things be perceived as attractive? By either side?!

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but being attracted to, and being attractive for, my provider of choice matters a lot to me, making for a worthwhile experience.

[lipualipua 4704]

@Mod: You wrote :......"anyone prices themselves out of a market they will move to a better market or they will lower rates... But... That has nothing to do with negotiating"

 

Okay Mod, You do have a point - the lady can move to a better market or reduce her prices. But wouldn't a provider unilaterally reducing her prices make her appear vulnerable to hobbyists(who may think she is not getting enough clients) and so perversely seek to take advantage of such a provider? Why wouldn't she approach each potential encounter bearing in mind its own set of conditions, even if it should be necessary to negotiate? And remember, Mod, moving away may not be an option for everyone.

 

Additional Comments:

@nlwoodchuck: am I to blame if Gabriella made an error, even if only a typo, in her post? I can only go on what has been written as I have no way of getting into her head. As for your attempts to belittle me please chill. Though I have defended my position vigorously, I have been courteous to all.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

101 Hobbying:

A= Clients who don't negotiate providers rates

B= Clients who negotiate providers rates

 

C= Providers who don't accept negotiation

D= Providers who do accept negotiation

 

A + C = Click

A + D = Click

 

B + C = Blacklist

B + D = Click

 

A (Non-negotiators) have 100% chance of clicking with their favorite providers and 0% chance of being blacklisted, assuming other criteria are met.

 

B (Negotiators) have X% being blacklisted, assuming other criteria were met, where:

 

X% = C/C+D * 100

B (Negotiators) have Y% chance of clicking with their favorite providers, assuming other criteria were met, where:

 

Y% = D/C+D * 100

Conclusion:

Given that the above variables (C & D) are unknown, as a hobbyist considering negotiation you are limited to the trial and error to find out your matching provider. Enjoy the experience or let's say the trials/errors!