Incall vs Outcall

[Mars_Bound 110]

Would love to hear the feedback on this. MOD, please chime in as well.

Are incalls illegal?

 

For you seasoned and veteran SP's , have you had any problems doing incalls at your apartments and the LE(cops)?

 

Do LE, cops, actually go out of their way and launch busts for sps who do incall.

 

For one girl who she is the only one working out of her apartment, is it safe to do incalls?

 

What steps should be taken?

I guess one common step is to have low traffic so the neighbours wont complain.

 

Can a girl successfull work out of her apartment long term (without having to move around) doing incalls?

 

Thanks

[E.D. man 691]

There is another very long thread on this.

[mod 135640]

As E.D. man Mentioned this has been discussed before but it's always good to keep stuff like this fresh for the newbies.

 

Are incalls illegal?

Technically a single date in a residence or hotel is not illegal as the law says it must be a Common place of prostitution (meaning it must happen at the same location to be considered a bawdy house). If she rents a hotel room and you are the only person she sees in that room I suspect this is very much legal... some hotels rent by the hour so I could see a lady doing this as part of a business expense to be safe and more legal.

 

Places like men's spa's (Massage) that offer "extra's" and out right brothels are very much illegal (and often become the targets of police investigations).

 

The law was made to stop brothels but I suspect it was left undefined to allow law enforcement to use it for any place that brings such things as high traffic or public complaints.

 

Do LE, cops, actually go out of their way and launch busts for sps who do incall.

In most cities the answer would be no. Independent ladies are often left alone unless enforcements received public complaints.

 

From my understanding .... In some cities Bi-Law enforcement laws are used to scare the ladies (Drive them out of the business or scare them into leaving the city) and in some cities the by-laws are enforced by police and not by-law officers making it that much harder for the ladies to understand the difference between a by-lay infraction and a criminal charge.

 

Winnipeg, Calgary and Windsor are know places where this has been done (by-law used to harrass the ladies and enforced by police as it's easier for them to charge people with by-law infractions than to charge someone under the criminal code of Canada).

 

I am sure most of the police involved in this harassment don't feel good about doing this, I suspect pressure from the city councils is the reason for this (or they are brainwashed into thinking they are doing something good - I don't know for sure but it's wrong and we all know it).

 

The public often group escorts, dancers, street walkers, etc... all into the same group (unmoral sex work) and see them as all the same. This is just ignorance and a lack of education on the subject that results in this.

 

They can not charge the escorts for public solicitation like they do the streetwalkers (unless they con a escort into talking about something in a hotel lobby or somewhere public) They make up these by-laws to give them more power to harass the ladies.

 

For one girl who she is the only one working out of her apartment, is it safe to do incalls?

Safe? Safe can mean a number of things. Safe from harm? Safe from legal procession? I assume you mean is she working legally but I should address the actual safety factor first.

 

She is safer working from a single location (but not her home as it would be foolish to give out your home address to strangers - this only encourages stalkers and predators as the ladies end up being easy targets for these deviants). It is much more risky to do outcalls as the lady never really knows what she is walking into - this is why I personally feel that brothels should be legalized as if done correctly it can make the work environment for these ladies (and the customers) much safer.

 

From a legal point currently any incall location is illegal if it's used more then once for prostitution (paid sexual services).

 

It seams that most LE overlook the single low traffic ladies working from a location. In most cities they are not the target of investigations and many have done this for years. I am sure the police know that the ladies are MUCH safer doing this and if they are not causing anyone any harm why go out of your way to harass someone (much bigger fish to fry who actually deserve it).

 

If I was a police enforcement officer I would not want to harass people who are just making a honest living and I would feel that everyone deserves the right to a safe working environment. I would want to target pimps, drugs, sex slavery and other much more serious crimes. I would feel just horrible if I was forced to pick on the single ladies just trying to work in a safe environment (and I am sure most of the police feel the same way).

 

What steps should be taken?

I guess one common step is to have low traffic so the neighbours wont complain.

The problem with this question is that your asking for advise on how to get away with breaking the law. No one can answer this question legally. At this time we can only tell the ladies how it is. It is illegal no matter how they do it but it's safer for them (personal safety) as it keeps them in a familiar setting and they are not walking into a potentially dangerous location.

 

This is one of the reasons why the law is being appealed.

 

If I (or anyone here) were to give you advise on how to break the law we would be in trouble so we can't allow that for obvious reasons.

 

 

Can a girl successful work out of her apartment long term (without having to move around) doing incalls?

Many have but again they are taking the chance of being charged with common bawdy house.

 

Here is something to think about. What would the police need to charge someone with a common bawdy house charge and make it stick in court??

 

I figure they need first hand proof that prostitution is taking place in the location. Pretty hard to raid a ladies house once to prove that if she is the only one working... if it was a brothel and multiple ladies and customers were in the act that would be very different!

 

They would need to witness this first hand or at least be solicited by phone, in person, email, etc... to come to this location with the promises of a sexual acts (this could be why many of the ladies do not like to discuss sexual acts on the phone, email, etc.. but only in person.)

 

If a police officer went to see this lady in person and asked all these questions in person it still does not prove that the location is a common location.

 

The police at this stage can't arrest her as she did not solicit in public or give enough proof that the location was a common place of prostitution. I guess if the undercover officer asked her something like "So how many guys a week do you see here" and she was foolish enough to answer a loaded question like that it could be enough to charge her by her own admission.

 

Otherwise... I suspect they would need to actually have sex with her and then another police officer would need to go in again and verify that the location is a common location (happened more than once at the same location). I doubt many police would want to go on record as having sex with prostitutes (I am sure many are customers but don't want everyone in the world to know that).

 

I guess he could get up and leave without having sex but that does not prove that the act ever took place in that location (would be very hard to get a conviction).

 

No matter what with one girl working from one location it would be very hard to prove it was a common bawdy house and it would be very hard for the police to justify the time, expense and manpower required to go after this single lady (who is really doing no harm and is working in a otherwise safe environment as she is not going to a strangers house or working on the street corner).

 

It would be foolish to target these ladies and I am sure LE knows that.

[Andee 220524]

Mars Bound, if you read the replies the following thread, including some very valuable information from the MOD, you will see this and other issues pertaining to the law have been covered..

 

http://cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1642&highlight=escort+laws+plain+english

 

The bottom line is: technically in-calls are illegal and out-calls are not.

 

However, from my own personal experience and knowledge, if you are an SP working out of your own private residence and you do not attract attention to yourself by having high volume, or breaking other laws (such as municipal by-laws like noise, impeding traffic, criminal laws such as engaging in assault, drugs, etc.), you will probably be left alone.

 

I have been told by some that in order to be busted, you need to be doing a certain amount of calls per day, that you have to do something sexually with an undercover cop, that the cop who sees you cannot be the one who busts you, that if you move locations, they have to start the investigation all over all again which is why some girls prefer to change locations (such as hotels) every few days. I have never been able to get straight answers as to any or all of this information is true.

 

There are so many urban myths out there, like, if you touch a cop, then he can't arrest you, etc. I think if we offer in-calls, of course we are always taking a risk, but then so are the gentlemen who come to see us.

 

When I first started, there was no such thing as (advertised) incalls. It was only outcalls. In some ways, I think it was better then, but in other ways not having to leave the house is kind of nice too, although my availability is limited based on my living situation. With so many SPs offering in-calls, if you don't, it's hard to make a living depending solely on out-calls.

[JuliaOttawa 131]

Nevermind :)

[Guest s******ecan****]

well summarized as always Mod

[cat 262460]

Angela and other SP's - Do you feels safer doing incalls? By safe, I don't mean from LE, but from potentially violent clients.

I don't feel unsafe in any environment unless something in particular sets my intuition off. I do prefer guests to visit me for a number of reasons.

1. I can ensure the ambiance which we all know can take a good experience and make it great.

2. The time involved in traveling. Hotels within city limits are fine. Residences that are on the google maps don?t pose a problem to get there but there are too many unknowns and that makes it my least preferred method of entertaining. Driving an hour outside the city to see a client simply isn?t cost effective for me unless he is an established guest.

3. I know where I live, I know the security is amazing, and my condo is a bit of a maze with lots of doors. If things got scary, I could be out of there before he figures out where I went.

 

I have worked all angles and initially incall was not my preferred venue, but since landing in Ottawa my opinion has changed. It is a safe environment, if a guest has ill intentions he has to bring the tools in with him. Difficult to conceal duct tape in a front door pat down and pocket emptying. I require guests to leave all their pocket contents but their wallet at the front door and coats are hung in the closet. Every aspect of the visit is preplanned before he arrives and if there is deviation it catches my attention. Entertaining in your chosen environment allows you to control the situation much more effectively that visiting a guest in their home.

Cat

[Andee 220524]

Angela and other SP's - Do you feels safer doing incalls? By safe, I don't mean from LE, but from potentially violent clients.

 

If I am working alone, I feel safer doing in-calls during the day. I tend to attract the "lunch bunch" or "afternoon drive" crowd so to speak, just regular guys trying to fit in an appointment over a lunch hour or on their way home from work. If I am working evenings, I prefer to work with another SP or have someone close by who knows what I'm up to.

 

As I have said before, when I first started this biz, it was always out-calls, but in those days, people had land lines and you could confirm a name, address and telephone number by cross-referencing it in the phone book. With so many people having only cell phones, it is difficult to judge whether or not you are going to end up the victim of a prank or worse.

 

I cannot afford to be on the hook to my driver for a call that doesn't work out, so I do very few out-calls even when requested, unless I can verify them. Hotels of course are the best, because a simple call back to the room verifies whether the guest is registered to that room.

 

I have been very fortunate that I have never had a "violent" client so to speak. I always said some of the guys I went out with were worse to me than any client ever has been. I have had a few "bad" calls over the years, but I have to say, not too many in recent years. I don't know if it's because I'm older and/or do low volume, but I have to say, I get really nice guys coming to see me.

 

Like Cat, I use my intuition. If my spidey senses even tingle a bit, I pass. Which is also why I do not accept blocked numbers and never give my address out until I know the person is in the neighbourhood.

[Tracey 258]

When I first started in Ottawa a few years back I did both In calls and Out calls.

When I was doing In calls I was doing it from my home what a big mistake.

The first 2-3 weeks I thought everything was fine and I thought this is great I don't have to leave my house to work but then I had people coming at all hours of the day and night looking to see me and my friend that was staying with me. That was something I had never expected to happen. I had a lot of explaining to do when my mom came over to visit me and this guy was knocking on my door asking to see if I was able to squeeze him in. My mom didn't know what I was doing. She thought I was still stripping. And once I had a guy come over and he didn't want to leave and he kept telling me what are you gonna do I'm bigger than you and stronger than you so I ran to the bathroom locked the door and called a really close friend that was bigger and stronger than him and when my friend walked in to my house it took the guy by surprise cuz my friend was bigger and stronger than him and my friend asked him so what are you gonna do now and the guy replied leave.

After that I decided if I would ever do in calls it would never ever be from my home.

Kisses Tracey...

[Andee 220524]

When I first started in Ottawa a few years back I did both In calls and Out calls.

When I was doing In calls I was doing it from my home what a big mistake.

The first 2-3 weeks I thought everything was fine and I thought this is great I don't have to leave my house to work but then I had people coming at all hours of the day and night looking to see me and my friend that was staying with me. That was something I had never expected to happen.

Kisses Tracey...

 

I have heard of this happening, but fortunately it has never happened to me. I worked with an SP when Nortel was big and the money was flowing in Ottawa and there were no shortage of calls if you wanted them. Not once, in the 2 years we were there did anyone ever ring the buzzer off hours. Considering the hundreds of men who went through there, I am kind of amazed my myself it never happened.

 

So sorry to hear to you had to go through that. That really sucks.

 

I had one guy (a friend of mine) show up once when I was entertaining and I reminded him that he needs to call first because I may be "busy". He was excited about showing me his new motorcycle, so I let that one pass.

 

It kind of freaked the guy out who was here, but when I explained, he was okay. But, you're right, that is so inappropriate and downright scary.

[fortunateone 156618]

I have heard of this happening, but fortunately it has never happened to me. I worked with an SP when Nortel was big and the money was flowing in Ottawa and there were no shortage of calls if you wanted them. Not once, in the 2 years we were there did anyone ever ring the buzzer off hours. Considering the hundreds of men who went through there, I am kind of amazed my myself it never happened.

 

So sorry to hear to you had to go through that. That really sucks.

 

I had one guy (a friend of mine) show up once when I was entertaining and I reminded him that he needs to call first because I may be "busy". He was excited about showing me his new motorcycle, so I let that one pass.

 

It kind of freaked the guy out who was here, but when I explained, he was okay. But, you're right, that is so inappropriate and downright scary.

 

I agree 1000% with this and your earlier post. In fact, I have never had nor heard of any client assuming that he can just show up and I am quite surprised by Tracy's post. Maybe it is because we are more daytime, older, good screening methods, but I cannot imagine allowing anyone to see me who would assume that he could just knock anytime. I also am in contact with 50-100 other sps over the last couple of years and not one has ever reported such a thing happening to them even once, let alone multiple times. :shock:

 

IMO, it has a great deal to do with how you present yourself too. The style, where and what time of day you advertise, what info you give out, who you see, and so on. Probably the best way to eliminate drop bys is using a phone#. There can't be any excuse for someone showing up if they have a phone number that they can call, but I can see they would use not being able to email as an excuse for knocking on the door.

[SkypeGod 100]

I have a similar situation. Can be discussed.

[Guest T**E******s]

They would need to witness this first hand or at least be solicited by phone, in person, email, etc... to come to this location with the promises of a sexual acts (this could be why many of the ladies do not like to discuss sexual acts on the phone, email, etc.. but only in person.)

 

 

I could be completely wrong about this but... Phone and email can be explicit because it is not defined as a public place (unless some one over hears you in the local walmart).. The exchange itself..sex for money is not illegal.. but all the things that surround it are.. with the exception of some loop holes..

 

If you are really trying to go about things in "The right way" make sure that you have the correct licensing.. ie not registered as a health worker..Most women are brought down not by raids but as the MOD mention technicalities.

 

I would suggest that ladies look back to the begining of the porn industry.. they were all SP's... they avoided their problems by taping (sometimes with blank tape) the "scene" (session)

 

If you are looking into this make sure that you get legal help to register for the by-laws and appropiate licensing.