If someone that has made a transaction

[VictoriaJolie 64127]

Hello all

As some of you know I am facilitator of libero Paradiso..

I have a letter of invitation where I state the amount of the deposit and until when it is fully refundable.

As such event carry on some important costs.i do require the deposit

So if someone decide to attend...decide to pay in all via my credit card merchant which I absorb the fee of the merchant.Then 9 days before change his mind..Want all his money and create difficulty as he verbally kind black mail one of the lady to withdraw.

What is fair?

Technically the letter says fully refundable 3 weeks before only.

I have absorb the merchant fee..I will need to pay tps.tvq as it went in my commercial account

I personally feel half is fair.

Now it was trow in the air that he may "sue " me or else

[Midnite-Energies 110563]

I am by no means a legal expert so you may want to seek a lawyer to ask this question especially since the word "sue" was bandied about.

 

Personally, I would think that if you are running a business and you have an "invitation" stating all the pertinent details including information on deposits and cancellations, to me this would be a legal document and as such provide a disclaimer for what the gentlemen is demanding. Do these clients have to sign anything to be on the guest list or do they just verbally request, pay and it's done? This would be a solid defense. However, having information on the invitation and the exchange of funds can also be legally binding as a contract.

 

As I said, not knowing exactly what's involved and to what degree, I would say cover yourself with some legal advice so you know exactly where you stand. This gives you either the upper hand to say "non refundable" or "half" (if you want to extend the olive branch) or to know whether it's best to suck it up, cross said client off any future lists and learn from the experience.

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Unfortunately in the upper echelon there is a belief that the customer is alw2ays right even when they're not.

 

Good Luck!

[roamingguy 300292]

Well just my opinion, and I am not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination. If the letter says full refund three weeks prior to the event, and he bails out of an event he must have contacted you to attend, 9 days prior to the event (less than three weeks), he isn't IMHO entitled to a full refund. He cancelled on you, you didn't cancel on him. And you made financial commitments based on his contacting you to attend. Considering the costs needed to put on such an event, not to mention credit card fees, refunding half the fees seem more than fair to me

I think his threat to sue you is somewhat of an empty threat, more designed to scare you. Because if he sued he would have to pay for a lawyer and time in court which in itself would likely be more costly than any fees he paid you. Also courts are a public place, where his wife (assuming he is married) kids (assuming he has any) other family, friends, co-workers and so on would know he partakes in this lifestyle. I think he would just as likely want to keep his participation in this lifestyle discrete.

My two cents worth, if it's worth that

RG

[Rounding Third 9568]

I am pretty sure the tps.tvq would not apply on this transaction as receiving an advance is not a taxable transaction.

[Guest ***nsut***jr]

This kind of thing pisses me off.

I've always avoided things that I could not commit too completely.

If I did and had to cancel due to other commitments I would bow out graciously and take my losses.

I realize that there may be a more substantial sum involved here but all the same if you can't afford to lose it don't try to play in the first place.

If you have a letter stating the conditions I doubt he would get far legally.

Stick to your guns.

just my opinion of course

[Guest N***he**Ont**y]

He might attempt a charge back to get his money back through his card provider. In this case he may receive the money back if he has claimed non delivery of what he ordered. In most cases if the cardholder claims fraud or non delivery of services he will get his money back. The perils of excepting payment by credit card!

[cinelli 22184]

courts are a public place, where his wife (assuming he is married) kids (assuming he has any) other family, friends, co-workers and so on would know he partakes in this lifestyle

 

This!

 

Plus it would be a terrific story for any news reporter. They would be on his doorstep asking his wife about it. If I was the guy I would take half and shut up.

 

Victoria, maybe you should tell your lady friends about the guy and his lack of class.

[explorer69 3513]

Why don't you wait and see if you get a replacement for him. If you do you haven't lost anything and can return his money. Otherwise negotiate what is a fair settlement.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

Plus it would be a terrific story for any news reporter. They would be on his doorstep asking his wife about it. If I was the guy I would take half and shut up.

 

As much as it might sound like a good option for some, a companion could easily destroy her reputation if she ever decided to go the blackmail route and/or willingly exposed the client in the media--plus, no professional companion needs/wants that kind of public attention. Certain matters are better resolved between the parties involved.

 

On the other hand, if HE ever decided to bring her to court then HE would be the one exposing himself in more ways than one and all that for a cancellation policy he no longer wishes to respect.

 

Makes you wonder if he would act the same way if he was dealing with any other type of business...

 

VJ, I hope everything works out for the best!

[roamingguy 300292]

As much as it might sound like a good option for some, a companion could easily destroy her reputation if she ever decided to go the blackmail route and/or willingly exposed the client in the media--plus, no professional companion needs/wants that kind of public attention. Certain matters are better resolved between the parties involved.

 

On the other hand, if HE ever decided to bring her to court then HE would be the one exposing himself in more ways than one and all that for a cancellation policy he no longer wishes to respect.

 

Makes you wonder if he would act the same way if he was dealing with any other type of business...

 

VJ, I hope everything works out for the best!

 

Agreed. Which is why I believe his threat to take legal action is an empty threat. Not only are lawyer's fees expensive (there would be pre-trial preparation, then time in court) and likely much more than any fees he paid to Victoria, but the public exposure he would get from taking the case to court would, or should make him think twice about legal action. Not to mention the letter would already have stated fees fully refundable three weeks prior to the encounter, not nine days before. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think he would have a case. My guess, he already knows this and his threat is an empty threat

I do hope everything works out for you too Victoria

RG

[PistolPete 61421]

Rather than making ASSumptions or trying to state law etc etc or stating he has no case. My thoughts are same a Gabriella that both parties should simply work something out together, (which I think will happen) as uttering threats etc etc get people no place, and than it gets ugly.

 

Or even in fact bringing the matter on a board open for debate where it could get very ugly, if not this board but other boards.

 

The other Ladies and gents involved in the Paradiso may not enjoy any publicity made over this issue. As John says above, I feel the same that guys/ladies shouldn't get involved in a event if they can't commit to it.

 

But as in life things come up, and we don't know why he had cancel 9 days before the event, so it might just best to depart ways with a financial agreement among both parties.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Many of you who travel know that when you book a resort vacation or cruise you do not get your deposit back if you cancel after the deadline for refunds. This refund policy must be posted or the client must be informed in some other manner(eg.letter) but that's just how it goes in that industry. It doesn't matter that you didn't get to enjoy the "services".

 

VJ, you notified the client about your policy by letter but in future you may want to reword it so that it says "deposit is non-refundable within 3 weeks of the event" as opposed to "fully refundable before 3 weeks". I know it's semantics but that's how lawyers make a living. The former indicates zero refund is due where as the latter seems to indicate you might get a portion of the deposit back if you cancel within 3 weeks. At least that's how I interpreted your refund policy in your post.

 

I would say giving him half his deposit back is fair to both parties, although legally you could keep more if you wanted to push back against him.

 

Good luck.

[VictoriaJolie 64127]

Many of you who travel know that when you book a resort vacation or cruise you do not get your deposit back if you cancel after the deadline for refunds. This refund policy must be posted or the client must be informed in some other manner(eg.letter) but that's just how it goes in that industry. It doesn't matter that you didn't get to enjoy the "services".

 

VJ, you notified the client about your policy by letter but in future you may want to reword it so that it says "deposit is non-refundable within 3 weeks of the event" as opposed to "fully refundable before 3 weeks". I know it's semantics but that's how lawyers make a living. The former indicates zero refund is due where as the latter seems to indicate you might get a portion of the deposit back if you cancel within 3 weeks. At least that's how I interpreted your refund policy in your post.

 

I would say giving him half his deposit back is fair to both parties, although legally you could keep more if you wanted to push back against him.

 

Good luck.

 

Hello

I Want Want To say tank To anyone That gavé insights.

The Logic Was he read and no refund should be giving as many of my friends told me.However as some other point out I have to assume the repercussion it could bring.After looking his profile and emails exchange I understood that the person would have go his way and yes maybe bring me to court ..Even though it would cost him more than the refund as he is set his ways.Has it involved me but also others I had to think of consequences if I refuse.So I decide to refund him was he request but required to sign a document as he didnt keep his word and disregard what he agreed first to sign that he wouldn't create for the event itself or anybody involve privately or publicly any issues ,that he wouldn't do a reverse charge after I reimburse him.That no legal procedures would be done against me or my company that he would no longer be eligible to participate in any future events.

 

I wasn't please..But I had to think of others and on future of any events.

He did signed it.Im a stubborn person but it wasn't worth to jeopardize the event myself or my company or others that are involve in it as one thing I promote and proud to respect is the privacy to attend to such event.

In my own way I did reimburse in a way to make him understand how time consuming it was...I reimburse him in 5$ 10$ and 20$ bills the amount which was 4000$.Yup it sound childish but when someone spend time counting and how pain in the ass it is to received small bills they may..or may not get how much waste of time it is as it was for me to make all preparations and find last minute a new lady.

I learned a very valuable lesson is to change my agreement for future and make it very clear.

I'm sad that some men will use the fact that it is escort related to push their power to double standard as yes no vacation deal would be reimburse

 

Somehow I'm glad he didn't attend as my events aren't for the possessive guys.Sharing is caring in this hobby :)

Thanks VJ

[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

I think you've done exactly the right thing VJ and good for your for taking the high road and not getting into an ugly battle with someone like that.

 

Who knows what kind of grief he may have given you. You're protecting the future of your special events and ensuring the continued discretion of your guests and hostesses.

 

Bravo :)

[1963Kennedy 10698]

Many well-to-do people get to be well-to-do by being ruthless. Think of Edward Lewis (Richard Gere-Pretty Woman) whose whole existence revolved around buying up vulnerable small companies, breaking them up and selling them off in small pieces. He had no human feelings. It was only after he met Vivian that he became human and started to work with Mr. Morse, "we're going to be building ships". Threatning to take Edward Lewis to court would get you no where. HOWEVER, I can imagine that there are only about 10-15 "elite" ladies in Canada and that they will very soon know that Mr. Lewis cannot be trusted and therefore black listed. Whenever you're in business, your reputation is a most important asset and his is gone. When his other head gets itchy, where will he go?

 

Altho I never seen it, I think there must be parallels in TV series Mad Men

[Smith4fun 100]

This is definitely a tough spot to be in. But as a previous poster stated. It's all in the wording when it comes to refunds. And it did appear that your wording wasnt the greatest. If you had stated non refundable maybe it would have been different. For me if I make a commitment I do my absolute best to follow through. But if I couldn't for whatever reason I would have expected a refund. Simply because your wording is open to interpretation (if that is the wording you used in your invitation) whether it was this type of business or any other. And it does appear that the two of you settled on an amount that was less than a full refund. If my math is right you kept over 10%. And you also have to think that if you refused the refund would the person then possibly somehow manage to attend and potentially ruin the experience for the others because you essentially forced him to be there or lose x amount of money. As you said you don't want someone there who doesn't want to be there for whatever reason.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Additional Comments:

Also to Kennedy's comment on blacklisting him, To attend the event you've had to have seen at least one of the attending ladies. so we can safely assume he's seen 1 if not more of them. I would say that the ladies attending are the elite in the industry so they already know what he's like. For all we know the reason for his cancellation was that his daughter was in a car accident and in critical care. ( and as the wording of the refund is open to interpretation he thought he could get one). So to assume he cant be trusted and blacklisted is a little extreme

[fortunateone 156618]

I agree, reword your agreement to include the word "non-refundable" whether it is that you accept half as a deposit ahead of time, and the other half later. the first half would be completeley nonrefundable after a certain date.

 

Legally, you present an agreement that has everything spelled out in advance, so there is no room to argue. After that, if the person is insistent, or you are feeling somewhat generous, or whatever you can include a clause in there that depends on how much notice you are given, what sort of cancelation fee is charged.

 

In the business of selling goods, if someone returns an item in good condition for refund, they will only get 75 % of the cost, because in the fine print it will say there is a 25% restocking fee. You can have such a thing that allows you to provide a nearly full refund, minus a cancelation feel of whatever amount you decide (but you have to put it in writing) that will help offset the costs of late cancelations like this.

 

So no one gets a full 100% refund because you have costs associated with the CC processing, but they will get a fair amount back, if you set it up that way. And legally they won't have any kind of case to sue you or demand full refund, because when they entered into the agreement, they agreed to your terms of the agreement, including the nonrefundable dates, and the cancelation fees.

 

 

Example, cost is $4000 and date is October 1, event is December 1.

 

Terms are full refund less a 10% cancelation fee until November 1. If someone cancels before November 1, they will be refunded $3600.

 

After November 1st, the client will receive full refund less a 50% late cancelation fee. If they cancel between Nov 1 and November 14, they will receive $2000.

 

And after November 15, the entire fee is nonrefundable. They will receive nothing, as per the terms of the agreement.

 

The final clause in the agreement is that payment of the fee indicates acceptance of the terms of the agreement as outlined above.

[peiguy555 194]

Myself I'd do nothing, no reply no communication, dont feed a troll so to speak.

 

Its the perils of doing service based bushiness and accepting charge cards for payment, If the customer is dead set on getting a refund let them do a charge back. If you do reneg and do a refund DO NOT give a refund by any other means than reversing the exact charge to the exact card that initially had the charge. Otherwise you may find yourself out that refund plus a chargeback.

 

The CSR who takes the irate customers call for the chargeback wont care about you or your business, just the fact the customer disputes the charge for intangible goods.

 

If and when the chargeback happens you can try and fight it with the contract you had if it clearly spells out deadlines and a plain language deposit and cancellation policy with fees and penalties spelled out.do you have his signatre on the contract and more importantly on the card imprint (merchant copy) of the credit card transaction receipt, not necessary if verified by PIN. Id say you would have a 20% chance of being successful with both of those pieces of paper.

 

 

It will cost you less in the long run to just chalk it up to a business expense, just wrote off the costs as a deductible loss against income either as bad debt or banking fees, your accountant will be helpful with the details of that.

 

I almost signed up for a merchant account for a service based business I had, then I read the fine print, basically nothing can stop a bad customer bent on chargback scams, most credit cards don't bat an eye for one or 2 per year, some balcklist a customer after the second one. There are also a couple private chargeback bad customer lists but most were scams on both ends, scams to the merchants who subscribed and scams to the people on them, they would remove your name for $100

 

 

The fine print mostly states any charge processed as CNP card not present, meaning online store or telephone order, or if you are hand punching into a accounting software, this is why they are pushing the card reader smart phone attachments the merchant is 100% on the hook for any fraud, all the cardholder need do is call up 1800# and say I dont recognize that charge and your goose is cooked

[cinelli 22184]

....delete plz.