Being an ethical consumer

[Regent 35404]

So, a bit of a heavy topic. I'm in an ongoing conflict/dialogue with an acquaintance who's very anti-sex work. (Though I'm about ready to throw my hands up in disgust.)

 

I recently asserted that it's easy to be an ethical consumer of the sex industry if you actually care about being an ethical consumer, and that the more direct interaction you have with a worker, the easier it is to make sure that they're doing the work consensually and by choice. (So making a solid ethical choice when seeing a service provider is easier than doing so when watching porn on the internet, for example.)

 

She asked me how one could know.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me, but I'd rather not just give a flippant response based exclusively on my own perceptions and experiences, which are obviously limited - I work as a SP, I have many friends who are current and former workers in various parts of the sex industry and I've worked in social services where I had clients who were SPs, but I don't have any experience as a male hobbyist hiring a SP, and I do know that when I am a client at say, a strip club, my interactions with the women working there are really different than the interactions men have.

 

So, if you were giving advice to someone who had never seen a SP before and was really concerned about the risk of seeing someone who had been trafficked or who was being coerced* into the work, what would you tell them? I'm interested in responses from both SPs and hobbyists.

 

Things I would recommend:

See someone who**:

- works independently & has their own website

- participates in online communities for hobbyists and/or SPs

- is involved in sex worker rights activism/blogs or talks about their experiences and their work publicly

- screens their clients

Get to know them a bit, either through their interactions online or by booking some social time where you plan to just talk.

 

* When I talk about coercion, I mean through violence, emotional manipulation or abuse. One of the popular arguments against sex work is that there is no free choice when there are economic pressures that might influence a person's choice to do this type of work. Ultimately though, that adds up to an argument against capitalism and all work being coercive, and doesn't logically or meaningfully single out sex work, without doing a bunch of mental gymnastics.

 

** Obviously not meeting these criteria doesn't mean anything and many SPs who choose this work don't meet these criteria. Additionally, this is really complicated too, because these sorts of screening criteria could further marginalize already marginalized workers, by steering good potential clients away from them and towards workers who are already more privileged. But at the same time, those who are making the argument that it's impossible to do this type of work consensually or that it's impossible to be an ethical consumer are already seeking to force us all out of this line of work anyway, which, imo, does far more to marginalize already under-privileged workers.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I think you have outlined all the points that one could take into account to ensure themselves That they were dealing with someone who was independent or working for a service by their choice. Recommend this site, that would be a sure bet:) But don't bother to get into heated arguments with those who condemn or don't agree with this type of work. They have their opinions, to which they are entitled and, never will you sway them. As there will always be those who understand and accept this profession and those who don't. I wouldn't let their negative feelings affect your feelings either. We all make choices and the only one that has to be happy with those choices is the person making them:)

[wolfkat 838]

Have to agree with what Christy said.

[cat 262460]

I genuinely feel that I have an obligation to share with people about the industry as I know it and have sat in Regents shoes on many occasions. I consider it a very personal PSA Coles Notes that I willingly hand out for free. What I have learned is that I don't need to change their POV, all I need to do is put a face on it that challenges their beliefs. Meeting sex workers that don't fit the stereotype makes people reconsider what they believe to be true about the sex trade. It makes them question what they think are facts. I never take an activist stance, I'm very easy going in my delivery; avoiding the hard line presentation so they have nothing to push back against. Having them repeat their mistaken views verbally simply entrains it deeper. Instead I bring a light hearted tone to the conversation, smiling when I deliver the truths of my story. I've worked in every aspect of this industry save SWing and would do so again in a heart beat. I don't glamourize it but I also bring to light the good that I see. When they start pointing into dark corners, I simply parallel the facts with other lines of work equally as perilous and that sheds a certain inarguable light on things.

 

Remember, you don't need to "win" the war. You just need to show them there actually isn't a war going on, simply a life as we chose it. Changing a belief starts with one seed taking root and growing. Not as quickly as we might like, it may be buried deep and take a long time to break the surface which requires patience on our part with liberal amounts of sunshine and water. Most often, they will supply the sunshine; they will reflect back on the conversation time and time again, every time allowing your essence to influence their perceptions just a little more. All you have to do is water it. Just don't over or under water, both will kill the seed before it can take root and flourish...

 

cat

[Regent 35404]

Thanks for the input, cat and cristy. While I don't expect I'm going to change this particular person's mind, this conversation is happening in a place where other people can read it (yay Facebook), so it is important to me to engage in this dialogue, if only to give other people reading it stuff to think about.

 

Also, I feel a certain amount of responsibility to engage with anti-sex work rhetoric because it's not just people expressing opinions. Not only are these people perpetuating stigma which makes our work less safe than it could be, many of them are involved in anti-sex work crusading that actively seeks to criminalize us and/or our clients, shut down the places that we work or "rescue" us against our will. As someone who has a lot of privilege, it's really important to me to argue against the ideology that leads to individuals, organizations or government policy that actively harms sex workers that it's intended to save, and that disproportionately impacts those who are less privileged.

 

Otherwise, yeah, at this point, I'd probably just tell this person to fuck off, since it's clear that to her, a person's experience as a sex worker only counts if they hated it and were damaged by the experience. :P

[olderguy 5797]

I often laugh at the "holier than thou types" that are condescending when they refer to SP's and what they do. I suspect that there is a dark side to most all professions.

As a long time "bastion of the International Business world" I can assure you that the sex trade in Canada is absolutely no worse than any other industry in this country especially when it comes to coercion and exploitation. I'm sure some will read this and say "that olderguy is a cynical bastard", but really it is just a realistic observation.

[piano8950 32577]

When I got into this, the only understanding of the SP world was what I saw through Law & Order. Which is to say, I had a very poor understanding. It was sheer curiosity that I stumbled upon an MA's website. I knew things like body rub parlours existed and licensed by the city, so I figured it would be much more difficult to run trafficking operations in those organizations.

 

But something resonated with seeking independents, and I've stuck with indys since the beginning. So when I contacted the first girl in this industry, she was very active on Cerb, and I spent hours reading her comments. I didn't want to stalk her or anything of that sort, it was just to confirm in my mind that this is an independent woman, who is doing this on her own accord, not forced by a pimp.

 

Since then, like I said above, I've stuck with independents. I've also gone with people who have an active presence here or on different boards. Have comments that in some way impressed me intellectually. In person, they are natural extensions of their online persona, which gives me a bit of peace of mind that a pimp isn't faking all of it in the background.

 

Other things matter, like the incall location. As a business owner myself, I try to work on the tiny details that may go unnoticed, but adds to the overall experience. I've seen the same sense of attention in this industry. An absolutely tidy incall, bottle of refrigerated water at hand, etc. I think someone who was in this for her own reasons and not forced in by someone else has a much greater drive to go the extra mile.

 

The ads also play a role determining my comfort with seeking an SP out. If it's a short "here's my #, lets fuck", I never call. There are ladies who take the time making intelligent, and interesting ads. I feel that it adds another layer of professionalism and provides more proof they are in this without being coerced.

 

Finally, the last, and probably the biggest thing would be when I see her, I'd like to think that if I feel there is a sense that somethings amiss, I wouldn't go through with it and figure out what to do next if I felt it was trafficking.

 

Maybe it's a bit of an overkill, and I've passed over meeting some great people this way, but I rather err on the side of caution. With aspects of this industry being in the legal grey area, and politicians will continue to believe that sex is evil, it's the best that I could come up with.

[Frank7 3939]

One of the popular arguments against sex work is that there is no free choice when there are economic pressures that might influence a person's choice to do this type of work. Ultimately though, that adds up to an argument against capitalism and all work being coercive, and doesn't logically or meaningfully single out sex work, without doing a bunch of mental gymnastics.

 

I always find it weird to hear that argument from people when talking about Canada. In other poorer country, it might be true. Here however, anyone can stay alive with minimum wage and pretty much anyone is competant enough to work in a fast food, grocerie or any of the other student jobs. (They certainly aren't the most pleasant jobs....but we're talking about survival)

 

And while sex work clearly isn't for everyone (specialy religious or monogamous people), it's not the most dangerous or disgusting job.

While bad sex with someone you don't find attractive is horrible, everyone like good sex. There's a lot of jobs that ask you to do an activity nobody (well less then 1%) like, even when it's "good". For exemple... shovelling shit. Nobody does that for a hobby!

 

 

 

 

 

As for the initial question, it's always hard to know if the provider is truely in it by choice. Great suggestions in the thread to help make sure it is! Ultimetly though, you can only be attentive for the signs and hope that if someone is coerced, you'll notice and be able to help.

[mambo35 306]

The key word is consumer (not that ethics isn't important). As a consumer you normally do your research, asked questions, do some comparison if possible. Think of the way we purchase something of value. Then compare it to the way you treat something that you find worthless. Because, in reality you want the time you spend with an SP to be memorable. So IMHO, to be an ethical consumer you must be an informed, responsible and attentive consumer.

[fortunateone 156618]

Thanks for the input, cat and cristy. While I don't expect I'm going to change this particular person's mind, this conversation is happening in a place where other people can read it (yay Facebook), so it is important to me to engage in this dialogue, if only to give other people reading it stuff to think about.

 

Also, I feel a certain amount of responsibility to engage with anti-sex work rhetoric because it's not just people expressing opinions. Not only are these people perpetuating stigma which makes our work less safe than it could be, many of them are involved in anti-sex work crusading that actively seeks to criminalize us and/or our clients, shut down the places that we work or "rescue" us against our will. As someone who has a lot of privilege, it's really important to me to argue against the ideology that leads to individuals, organizations or government policy that actively harms sex workers that it's intended to save, and that disproportionately impacts those who are less privileged.

 

Otherwise, yeah, at this point, I'd probably just tell this person to fuck off, since it's clear that to her, a person's experience as a sex worker only counts if they hated it and were damaged by the experience. :P

 

 

 

Yes, that last part is so common. If an sp speaks up to say she is pleased with her choice of work for any reason, she is just going to be labeled as 'privileged' and can't possibly understand (as well as the non-sex workers can understand) this topic I guess.

 

You do have the opportunity to include links to some of the sex worker organizations in various country, talk about the red umbrella stuff, links to articles and interviews (like the ones Berlin has been involved with) and so on. There are some very basic boring workplace information linked on the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective, for example. Post a link to the Occupational Health and Safety documents that regulate the sex work industry in New Zealand, for a good way to help make this titillating business mundane.

 

Of course sex work is about money, and providing income to pay the rent, pay bills, and other things, just like any other kind of 'work'. That is why it's called sex 'work' and not just sex. i don't understand why the abolitionist groups try to make sex work into something different than other kinds of work. Some workers are exploited and some aren't, whether you are working construction (big human trafficking and slavery case in Ontario not that long ago was in the construction business), retail, fast food or sex work. An independent sex worker is more likely to be self motivated, whereas one working for an agency may be told what she has to provide, and what rates she can charge. Like any other employee in any other kind of business, she may be ok with that, or not. If not, she will either seek employment elsewhere, or go indy so she can make her own rules. Ask any retail clerk what they do when they don't like their employer's rules, and working conditions, and whether or not they feel trapped continuing with the job they have, or not.

 

 

I think one of the reasons why other people think they can speak on behalf of sex workers is due to gender, some people think some women are incapable of making choices for themselves that are good for them. It is infantilization of adult women for others to come in and save them. There is an assumption that sex workers, in general, lack education, certainly no post secondary degrees. So the ones with BAs and MAs and PhDs want to come in and 'save' these poor unfortunate sps, who don't know what is good for them, in spite of the fact that many of them talk back and say they don't want saving, they are trying to pay for their own education, to get their own MA, BA or PhD lol

[Phaedrus 209521]

I agree with most of what's written here. Like Cat, I think it's important not to glamorize the industry, or suggest that I have more agency than someone else simply because I'm independent, of a particular age, and 'educated' in a formal institution. It's hard though, because in my marketing (in a general sense) I really want my agency to come across so I use those characteristics my myself to promote my ability to choose to work in this industry! It's a Catch 22. Does that make sense?

 

Yes... but the point is that you have agency because of attributes entirely unrelated to the fact that you've chosen to be involved in this industry. You'd have as much agency if you did something else.

 

There are some gifted individuals who can do almost anything they set their minds to, and there are some who are doomed to perpetual failure. And in between, there's almost everybody else, who are better at some things than others and who have some choice over what to do with our lives, but not a completely free choice...

[oldblueeyez 15475]

For incalls, I would avoid areas known for drugs and gangs (sorry, but lessons learned), and even if calling for an outcall, I'd inquire about incall just to see where's she's based. I would avoid agencies which specialize in one particular ethnic group, ie: Russian, Chinese, etc.

[roamingguy 300292]

I've never thought about my participation in this lifestyle in terms of being an ethical consumer. I have viewed it as a gentleman seeking the companionship of a lady. The only difference, instead of me looking for a date the conventional way, which includes strings attached, I now reject the notion of conventional dating for me. Instead I prefer this lifestyle where connections can be made, but no strings, and no expectations are attached.

Now in talking about being an ethical consumer. Which is more ethical. Two consenting adults involved in this lifestyle. Everything is open honest and above board, no expectations beyond the encounter. It is mutually beneficial. Or a man and woman dating. The man knows he doesn't want to continue seeing her, but the woman says she wants to sleep with him (thinking he is as interested in her as she is in him) so he sees it as an opportunity for sex, but the next morning he is gone, never heard from again. And she is left with a broken heart (OK maybe a little melodramatic here) Where are the ethics here and who is more ethical, a client in an SP Client relationship where both know what the expectations and outcome will be or a man dating a woman he doesn't want to date, but sleeping with her while leading her to believe there is a future for them

When I see a companion, or look to book an encounter with a companion I treat the lady like a gentleman. First and foremost, I treat the lady like a gentleman because I am a gentleman. And the SP's I see are ladies. This isn't just semantics, the ladies are ladies. Being professional companions and being ladies are not mutually exclusive. And being a gentleman and also a client partaking in this lifestyle is also not mutually exclusive. In short ladies and gentlemen can also be SP/Client, the two are not in conflict.

How do I select a lady to see. I look first and foremost at her board presence on CERB. Her postings give me an idea of who she is, and whether we will click. I then follow her contact, screening/verification methods and respect all boundaries, including not ever negotiating. I stick with independent companions, mid twenties or over. A website is useful but not a necessity. One lady when I first met her had her information contained in her CERB profile. She didn't have a website. (she does now) She is a good companion one I plan to see for a third encounter in 2014

Not all companions can get involved in sex worker's activism, they may hold other jobs and need to be discrete. That isn't a deciding factor for me

Finally, as I said I see ladies. You'd think with all the talk in mainstream society, by now I would have run into a hooker, whore, prostitute etc. Not one, not ever, all I've met are ladies. My opinion, for what it's worth. Mainstream society uses such terms because it allows them to feel morally superior and treat the ladies with condescension, like they are in need of society's help, unwanted as it may be. They can also call gentlemen john's, reinforcing their POV that ladies are exploited. They can't envision that non committal paid intimate relations can be a mutually beneficial non exploitive lifestyle, and ladies and gentlemen can partake in this lifestyle while being ladies and gentlemen.

As for sex work, and yes, I never forget this is their livelihood, is because economic circumstances force the lady to do so. Well that can be said of any profession, we all have jobs first and foremost because economic circumstances force us to work.

And even the term sex work is, at least for me, a misnomer. Yes sex is an aspect of an encounter, but at least for me, a more accurate term is professional companionship. I see a lady for her company, to socialize, have conversations, yes, sex too, but also just kissing and cuddling. And sometimes, circumstances allowing, we have dinner out, maybe breakfast too. If an encounter was solely about sex, well I'd book a half hour and that's it. But an encounter is about companionship, and why I like longer encounters

OK you can all catch your breath now, my rambling over

RG