VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 rofl exactly my point. I used that example to illustrate that OP needs to get off her high horse thinking she is better than than those "morons" when there are kids in that same class (or in another class) who are probably much more intelligent. Is OP going to just take it in the face then when a smarter student comes along and points out her stupidity? Actually, Voltio, I have a degree in a science-related field, archaeology. This is my second degree. And at the university level, I don't think it's appropriate to sit and talk through lectures, when some of us actually want to be there. And if you're so smart in another field, why raise your hand and say bonehead things when it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 Hate it or love it, Volt raises the correct issue. Lack of knowledge does not automatically give anyone the right to alienate ANYONE.I know absolutely NOTHING about any of the question-examples you gave... Blanket statements are the worst kind of defence, and offence, you can use to emphasis your points. Trying to counter with "well these kinds of people don't do that", while the point gets across, people will use the exceptions to shoot you down. The same goes for the OP's claims. Spelling mistakes in their notes? Are you trying to copy from them? Why does it matter to you how fail they are you are there for you not them.. The school system doesn't care about how educated you are, they just want to push student through and get them out into society asap. The teachers have been complaining about this for years now; they can't do anything about it because the system backs the student 100%. I hear this kind of talk ALL the time from senior high school students and freshman college students on busses and in stores: his younger sister is a total "vag dealer" or "slut" and how they live to get "juiced" and "kick peoples ass's" can't wait for the next party. Why? Because there are no conscequences for missing 3/4 of your school year and getting a 35% final grade..oh well give them a make up test and pass them... Today's youth aren't as well rounded or intellegent as they were when I was going through high school...Hell I over heard a group of young ladies talking about how their french project was totally bogus because they couldn't find all the info they needed on the internet, so how were they suppose to finish their project.. If only there was a building where they housed vast amounts of printed knowledge accumulated over a long period of time, Libraries? do they still exist? (for now anyways) Children are just lazy. Most are also spoiled (as Annessa mention ever so subtly :P) I know a 28 year old with x kids under 12...crying because she wont buy them motor bikes AND computers for chirstmas; only one or the other.. boo freakin hoo! I was lucky to get a ride to school if I missed the school bus; and then got to eat dinner for missing school. That's exactly my point. People are lazy and think that everything should be handed to them. If you don't want to be there, or take it seriously, then go back to Mom and Dad and wait a few years instead of coming to class and driving me crazy with your ignorance. You'll have to excuse my low tolerance for boneheads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etasman2000 15994 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 Actually, Voltio, I have a degree in a science-related field, archaeology. Archaeology rocks! imho archaeolgy's ethnographic techniques totally changed human computer interaction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m**k 153 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 That's exactly my point. People are lazy and think that everything should be handed to them. If you don't want to be there, or take it seriously, then go back to Mom and Dad and wait a few years instead of coming to class and driving me crazy with your ignorance. You'll have to excuse my low tolerance for boneheads. Your intolerance is not very becoming...life is hard, get over it. Yes, some people get a better head start, but that doesn't make you any better than anyone. Perhaps you want to re-read this thread...its jampacked with good advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lowdark 5613 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 I don't think Erin deserves being accused of intolerance. Frustration yes, intolerance no. There are a lot fo younger people where I work and I admit to being frustrated by them on occasion as well. I don't think its the lack of knowledge (or experience) but the occasional self centred attitude. The sense of entitlement is a little frustrating as well (as Anessa mentioned when she spoke about a previous co-worker left work sick on a day she coincidentsally had tickets to a concert). And God forbid anyone should try to survive without their cell phone or blackberry. But in Erin's defense, I was reading a study not too long ago stating that the average North American's vocabulary has actually shrunk nearly 10 000 wordf in the past ten years. the same study aslo stated that the average IQ has also slid a little in the same period. Food for thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voltio8836 100 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 Actually, Voltio, I have a degree in a science-related field, archaeology. This is my second degree. And at the university level, I don't think it's appropriate to sit and talk through lectures, when some of us actually want to be there. And if you're so smart in another field, why raise your hand and say bonehead things when it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about? 1. Talking through lectures (i.e. interrupting) is different from asking a question (ur original post). So nice try on spinning what you said. 2. Why do you think you have the ability to judge another person? What, you didn't get your tuition paid by your parents, you think you have it hard in life? So what? I paid for my own tuition and got my own scholarships, you don't see me looking down on others. There are people that I know who came from dirt poor countries and are probably sitting in the ur very class. Maybe you need to think twice before passing your judgment on a so called "bonehead" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ford1976 1074 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 I've done my fair share of university courses and I've seen my fair share of people who like to hear themselves talk. Some people have a comment about everything, no matter how idiotic or irrelevant I found the comment it never bothered me that they made it. To me university is an education experience, a place for people to open their minds and explore what is inside. These people paid the same tuition as me (in some cases a little less, who charges a lab fee anyway), and as such they have every right to spout on about what ever they feel is important to them. If they are continuously ignorant or just plain wrong most profs or other students in the class will put them in their place. If they are trying to contribute and/or enrich themselves, I say good for them. If they are ignorant dumb asses, who expect every thing done for them, then they will fail the course by the midterm exams/paper and drop out, leaving more parking spaces for the rest of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ragnaglar 440 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 Erin is simply stating that she is paying a price for her education and she would prefer not to have her time wasted with some of the nonsense that some kids spout off in the classroom. hey she is paying for the course it is her right. she is after all just blowing off some steam looking for understanding from her peers/comrades. ( this means she does hold many of us in high regard!) and trust me, all of us have been in a class/meeting/family event and we rolled our eyes to some of the useless drivel being used as intelligent conversation. however on the other hand ( I am sure she rightly knows this....) she should use this opportunity of having her intelligence insulted when these kids speak to garner some patience, as the world is full of them and more than likely will end up being your boss or political leader!:wink: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buggernot 588 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 If this were one of those monthly threads where a SP or client started complaining about the lack of respect from morons the girls have to put up with, everyone would be jumping on the bandwagon in agreement and exclaiming how they cannot believe how ignorant some people are. I don't see much difference here really, but for whatever reason it seems to be ok for some people to get holier-than-thou in their own right to argue that it's excusable to be ignorant. And either way, it's unfortunate to say that that's life...these people are everywhere and always will be. You just learn to deal with it better as you get older - hopefully before killing them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m**k 153 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 I don't think Erin deserves being accused of intolerance. Frustration yes, intolerance no. There are a lot fo younger people where I work and I admit to being frustrated by them on occasion as well. I don't think its the lack of knowledge (or experience) but the occasional self centred attitude. The sense of entitlement is a little frustrating as well (as Anessa mentioned when she spoke about a previous co-worker left work sick on a day she coincidentsally had tickets to a concert). And God forbid anyone should try to survive without their cell phone or blackberry. But in Erin's defense, I was reading a study not too long ago stating that the average North American's vocabulary has actually shrunk nearly 10 000 wordf in the past ten years. the same study aslo stated that the average IQ has also slid a little in the same period. Food for thought. ok, point taken...if not intolerance, then low tolerance (her words)...same thing. I'm not sure that I understand what you are inferring with respect to cell phones...they are cheap and easily accessible to all, so what's the problem? Also, did the study attribute the shrinking of the N_A vocabulary (I assume you mean English) to youth? The avg IQ may also be shrinking as the population ages...if the study was based on a representative cross sectional sample of the population, you would expect it to drop as more people are older (yes, brain cells die and an individual`s IQ score will drop as he/she ages). I would be interested in reading those studies so please post a link if you have it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 1. Talking through lectures (i.e. interrupting) is different from asking a question (ur original post). So nice try on spinning what you said. 2. Why do you think you have the ability to judge another person? What, you didn't get your tuition paid by your parents, you think you have it hard in life? So what? I paid for my own tuition and got my own scholarships, you don't see me looking down on others. There are people that I know who came from dirt poor countries and are probably sitting in the ur very class. Maybe you need to think twice before passing your judgment on a so called "bonehead" Actually, at the end I also stated I was aghast at some of the lack of respect (ie, talking through a lecture). Sorry I didn't spell it out for you. And my parents paid for my first degree, I am paying for this one. I certainly am very aware of the privilege I have, but I'm also putting it to good use, whereas some waste it and sit there talking. I wasn't passing judgement so much as having a laugh at someone else's stupid comment. You seem to have taken what I said personally, as Lowdark already pointed out, it came from a place of frustration, not intolerance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 Erin is simply stating that she is paying a price for her education and she would prefer not to have her time wasted with some of the nonsense that some kids spout off in the classroom. hey she is paying for the course it is her right. she is after all just blowing off some steam looking for understanding from her peers/comrades. ( this means she does hold many of us in high regard!) and trust me, all of us have been in a class/meeting/family event and we rolled our eyes to some of the useless drivel being used as intelligent conversation. however on the other hand ( I am sure she rightly knows this....) she should use this opportunity of having her intelligence insulted when these kids speak to garner some patience, as the world is full of them and more than likely will end up being your boss or political leader!:wink: I wouldn't say that blowing off some steam in an online forum implies a lack of patience. I could have turned to either one of those women and corrected them condescendingly. Or I can post about how it was a funny to me in a forum where I consider most of you as peers. Everyone has pet peeves, one of mine just happens to be ignorance. You don't have to have an expensive university education to educate yourself. Being ignorant in this day and age is just lazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 I wouldn't say that blowing off some steam in an online forum implies a lack of patience. I could have turned to either one of those women and corrected them condescendingly. Or I can post about how it was a funny to me in a forum where I consider most of you as peers. Everyone has pet peeves, one of mine just happens to be ignorance. You don't have to have an expensive university education to educate yourself. Being ignorant in this day and age is just lazy. I would have to agree with Erin's motion here. strangely when SPs vent about the ignorance or newbie potential clients or vent about the spoiled gents who try and barter because they['ve been spoiled their entire life being told they can get it if they wanted it blah bleh.....etc etc...in these cases, proper members chime in that these kids are news and need a slap on the face etc....i see the wast of something that ppl should be appreciating but are just abusing (education) as no different ignorance like this on these threads is backed up by numerous members saying "they're young...they just dont get it" and so on why should this be any different? and why should any ppl be attacked for having said opinions about the youth of today when it comes to formal education.....but its alright to jump on the opinionated bandwagon about cerb-related etiquette? Life experience (as one member was kind enough to point out) is what it all boils down to....not the degree you achieved before taking on the cushy waitress job. prime example...experience will always favour over a piece of paper. you could have a piece of paper that says at the age of 16 you lost your virginity....it doesnt mean that you are well knowledged in the real world of other etiquettes. anyone get my comparison here? art or biology major....who cares...in the end its not about what you do...but how well you do it and what you plan to do with it, something kids who said "eeny-meeny-miney-moe" when choosing their careers may not entirely understand. That being said, opinions on the "future generation" are not angst-ridden vents IMO, but an expression of the distaste for the lack of responsability of those who will be put in charge before many of us will due to their willing to work for less when they graduate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuse56 100 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 In any field (even the sp-hobbiest), teaching newbies the etiquette and rules of the business is the responsibility of the more experienced. In the sp-hobbiest domain there is no publicly available documentation, hence the newbies will make mistakes. If a newbie starts with a sense of entitlement and continues then its up to the more experienced to let them know. Degree or no degree, there is no excuse for not learning the rules of the game. I work with kids 20-25, they are not much different than all the generations I have seen, spoiled kids have been common since the stone age. I am very new to CERB (two weeks) however very much experienced in life. Thanks for your contributions Annessa...One day we may meet. amuse56 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cordsboy 184 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 prime example...experience will always favour over a piece of paper. you could have a piece of paper that says at the age of 16 you lost your virginity....it doesnt mean that you are well knowledged in the real world of other etiquettes. anyone get my comparison here? Okay did I miss something during grade 11 sex education class? If I knew people actually had sex and we received a certificate for it I wouldn't have skipped class so much... I've stated my opinion on this thread already a few times and find the thread is getting very personal between people; my suggestion to all is to purchase any books on generational gaps. This issue has been around for centuries and will always be around, the group you identify with the most will always seem like the perfect well rounded group and all others will seem deficient in one way or another. If you do not learn to interact/work with other generations you are only doing yourself a disfavor. Yes there are ignorant (better word then stupid) people around us all, heck you may think I am, just remember ignorant people have been around forever and will always be around. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted October 25, 2009 If this were one of those monthly threads where a SP or client started complaining about the lack of respect from morons the girls have to put up with, everyone would be jumping on the bandwagon in agreement and exclaiming how they cannot believe how ignorant some people are. I don't see much difference here really ... ... strangely when SPs vent about the ignorance or newbie potential clients or vent about the spoiled gents who try and barter because they've been spoiled their entire life being told they can get it if they wanted it blah bleh.....etc etc...in these cases, proper members chime in that these kids are news and need a slap on the face etc....i see the wast of something that ppl should be appreciating but are just abusing (education) as no different ... One difference is that clients are (or at least should be!!!) adults. 17-year-old students are still kids. Few things are more exasperating than teenagers (hence Erin's rant, not the first on the subject!). But, at the same time, children who are going about the arduous and painful task of growing up will tend to attract more sympathy than do ignorant adults (hence the members who jump to the kiddies' defence). p.s.: During adolescence, brain connections and signaling mechanisms selectively change over time to meet the needs of the environment. Overall, gray matter volume increases at earlier ages, followed by sustained loss and thinning starting around puberty, which correlates with advancing cognitive abilities. Scientists think this process reflects greater organization of the brain as it prunes redundant connections, and increases in myelin, which enhance transmission of brain messages. Other parts of the brain also undergo refinement during the teen years. Areas associated with more basic functions, including the motor and sensory areas, mature early. Areas involved in planning and decision-making, including the prefrontal cortex -- the cognitive or reasoning area of the brain important for controlling impulses and emotions -- appear not to have yet reached adult dimension during the early twenties. The brain's reward center, the ventral striatum, also is more active during adolescence than in adulthood, and the adolescent brain still is strengthening connections between its reasoning- and emotion-related regions. Scientists believe these collective findings may indicate that cognitive control over high-risk behaviors is still maturing during adolescence, making teens more apt to engage in risky behaviors. http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainBriefings_Adolescent_brain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 cordsboy, I'm kidding about the piece of paper, lol....that obviously doesnt exist, but its like saying going through the motions of a right of passage doesnt make you a pro...yanno? and I see what you're saying Wrinkled but I think we're talking about university kids. who are over the age of 17 anyway all I'm sayin is lots of people seem to be brushing off the vent coz its just accepted that young ppl are allowed to be ignorant etc, its just accepted......and i find it too bad :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kubrickfan 12836 Report post Posted October 25, 2009 Coming late to this thread, but when I went back to get my MBA degree, I was 10 years older (35) than most of the other students in the school (25 or so). There we some goof-offs, but most everyone was pretty serious about things regardless of their age. There's not much you can do about the problem described, and I agree that it may not even be a problem. Why worry about it? Just focus on your own studies. If a teaching point gets muddied by a good-off, follow up and get the point clarified after class. If its that bothersome, get into a school with fewer goof-offs. They do exist, even ones where there are a lot of people with mummy and daddy footing the bill. There was an upside for me as a single, 35 year old guy ... a boatload of good-looking, brainy 25 year old single ladies! Seriously, a little diversity is a good thing. Most schooling is a function of what you make of it ... just stay focused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted October 25, 2009 I'm back in university and doing a second bachelor's degree. I'm in class with seventeen year olds. I see what you're saying Wrinkled but I think we're talking about university kids. who are over the age of 17 now see, I thought we were still discussing the original post ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E*****s**r 210 Report post Posted October 26, 2009 and I see what you're saying Wrinkled but I think we're talking about university kids. who are over the age of 17 anyway all I'm sayin is lots of people seem to be brushing off the vent coz its just accepted that young ppl are allowed to be ignorant etc, its just accepted......and i find it too bad :-( Anyone not born before fall classes start, and hasn't taken time off after high school, will be under 18 y/o; due to the elimination 6 years ago of grade 13. The strongest feelings/evidence of the original post was based on lack of knowledge on behalf of the younger students; which is not entirley their faults. The small blurb about them talking through lectures, and being disrespectful, would have the tendency to be over-looked; BUT was, imo, the main idea to be expressed. I am not fully informed as to what others discuss about etiquette, protocol etc in regards to SP-client interaction, nor have I researched how people react in those discussions vs ones like this one, but I don't think you can compare the two; it's like watermelons vs rocks. Yes being ingorant nowadays is just lazy, as I've stated previously, but people who have everything handed to them, have little reason or motivation to NOT be ignorant. That is how our society has evolved. If mommy and daddy are always there to bail you out, why should you care about your actions..the conscequences will never repercuss on you. This is why I appreciate Darwin's rule "Survival of the Luckiest" It holds true and will continue too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lowdark 5613 Report post Posted October 26, 2009 A tip for Monk (sorry I didn't quote your question). I read the study in a science magazine several years (sorry, no link). From what I remember they used test groups of identical age and education levels and compared the results to those of their relevant test group from previous tests. Therefore everyone they were studying was the samw age (i.e. twenty five year olds from 1975 vs. twenty five year olds from 1985). They used the same criteria and parameters as well and after extensive surveys determined that the average vocabulary had actually been reduced (and many of the involved researchers theorized the same thing for IQ levels). As for cell phones and blackberries, I have nothing against them, I just don't like how they become the focus of so many users to the exclusion of everything else around them. That's it's illegal to use them while driving now, and Ontario is nowhere near the first place to do this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzitup 5652 Report post Posted October 26, 2009 I remember reading a little peice in the Globe and Mail about how dumb people are too dumb to know how dumb they are. And some actually think they are smart. And then I ended up working with someone like that. I just tried to be tolerant of him and patient. So the flip side of this would be the smart people know what they don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ford1976 1074 Report post Posted October 26, 2009 If I said anything to take away from Erin'r justified rant I apologize. Somethings bother some people more than others. Even though I may tolerate ignorance (in the academic sense), it is never "okay" to be ignorant and/or disrespectful. cordsboy, I'm kidding about the piece of paper, lol....that obviously doesnt exist, but its like saying going through the motions of a right of passage doesnt make you a pro...yanno? and I see what you're saying Wrinkled but I think we're talking about university kids. who are over the age of 17 anyway all I'm sayin is lots of people seem to be brushing off the vent coz its just accepted that young ppl are allowed to be ignorant etc, its just accepted......and i find it too bad :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cordsboy 184 Report post Posted October 26, 2009 cordsboy, I'm kidding about the piece of paper, lol....that obviously doesnt exist, ( Annessa, maybe you should open a SexU and offer certificates, now the honors system will need to be a little different...as opposed to graduating: cum laude, magna cum laude or summa cum laude one could graduate: cum loudly, multiple cum loudly and my knees are shaking cum loudly... just a thought. :cooter: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted October 26, 2009 When I went to University (Ryerson), I was 24 years old. That was back in the 80's before cell phones, i-pods and laptops. Even then, I was surprised at how poorly the other, younger students' writing and spelling was. As someone who has worked many years as as transcriber and administrative assistant, it is unbelievable the quality (or lack of quality) of work coming out of some young people. Just as you complain about your co-students, I have a similar pet peeve with younger co-workers, many of who regard administrative or clerical work as demeaning or not a real career. They are just using it as a springboard to something else. The only reason why they even got the job was mostly because they either had university or are considered "bilingual" (but don't get me started on that one). I don't know know if we can blame it on on-line chatting, phone texting or what, but you're right Erin, young people, as a rule cannot spell and many times their attitude is like, "the world owes me a living". Depending on spell-check to bail you out doesn't work if you you don't know the difference between your and you're. I have received e-mails from executive assistants who work for deputy ministers who have written "your welcome". I cringe when I read teenage nieces' postings on facebook. Most of the time I can't decipher their "code". I'm either getting old or something is terribly wrong out there. Do teachers not care anymore or what? Good luck with your studies Erin. I'm sure you'll ace your courses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
