The Provider vs. Client "Contract"

[stand on guard 1186]

I have read most of the responses to this thread. As a long time hobbiest, I am very surprised that anyone would balk at paying up front. As soon as I walk in the door, I greet the SP and then politely hand her the stipend. I may be in the minority, but I tend to repeat with a small number of sp's and rarely request special attire, nor do I have a planned menu in mind. I go with the flow, hope we both have a mutually enjoyable time and then depart. When I have visited someone for the first (and possibly ) only time, it is paramount to establish some form of trust. That trust is me handing over the money without being asked, being well groomed, freshly showered and respectful. I can count the number of times on one hand where I have had a less than satisfactory visit. I hope the ladies would feel the same way.

[amber76x 241]

Wow!

I really hope this did not actually happen?

If so I would have to say that you were not only "mislead" You where out and out LIED to! It angers me a sp that clients feel they need to ask me the same questions on the phone, and then when they get to my house....However This explains why they are so paranoid!

I understand money is given ahead for the service .. How many other men were lied to by this sp? Without a second thought she deserves a bad review ! I am so Sorry ;( Amberx

[Guest P**aq]

I attest to the YMMV theory. You can plan all you like, but during any encounter things get pretty hot and steamy and things can simply be forgotten in the heat of the moment. You can't always script something as wonderful as sex because every time is different.

[JoyfulC 132299]

We often hear about when ymmv turns out disappointing, but I think it turns out mind-blowing far more often than we hear about.

[Athos 108589]

We often hear about when ymmv turns out disappointing, but I think it turns out mind-blowing far more often than we hear about.

 

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

 

I've been disappointed a handful of times, and to be honest in only one of those sessions would I say that the lady simply wasn't interested in providing good service. In other instances, the service was fine/ok but I wasn't feeling the chemistry. I never discuss services in advance, the only thing I need to know is the expected donation. Good manners, gentlemanly conduct, proper hygiene and respect, respect, respect takes care of everything else.

 

For sure, sometimes chemistry just isn't right, and there is little that can be done about that. But in general, it isn't or shouldn't be that hard to get to the top end of the YMMV spectrum, and when it does. WOW! are you in for a treat.

[Guest jrose]

Gents,

 

We're not ordering from a menu, or adding services to our cell phone plan, we are spending quality time with lovely ladies.

 

Is it fair to discuss what she might be open to before hand? For sure. But does that discussion make it a binding contract? I don't think so.

 

I can't say it's not right to ask questions - hell I ask more than I should before some encounters for sure. But those are to find out the limits of what a lady likes, not check off boxes of things to do in the session.

 

As porthos hinted at, sometimes things happen MORE than discussed - especially on second and further visits. I can think of 2 of my encounters that ended not in a way I was expecting, but in a much better way. Amazing, so to speak. :) :)

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

We're not ordering from a menu, or adding services to our cell phone plan, we are spending quality time with lovely ladies.

 

Then the provider should not put a menu like a restaurant or a cell phone company.

 

Is it fair to discuss what she might be open to before hand? For sure. But does that discussion make it a binding contract? I don't think so.

 

There are many words which the provider can use to high-lighten the discretionary nature of her services but to commit herself is to honor or refund.

 

As porthos hinted at, sometimes things happen MORE than discussed - especially on second and further visits. I can think of 2 of my encounters that ended not in a way I was expecting, but in a much better way. Amazing, so to speak. :) :)

 

More is a bonus but less is something different which I don't need to name.

[Guest Prufrock Cummings]

I recently had my second "encounter" where nothing happened in the two hour booking.

 

The first time was last year with someone with whom I had never met before (i.e. first time encounter), so I have chosen not to see her again. I spent 3 hours on the couch (for a 2 hour booking, lol) listening to her tell me her sad life story. I finally had to excuse myself in the third hour and left. A handshake goodbye was the closest we got during the session.

 

The second time was recently with some that I repeat with. Time got the better of us with too much chatting and and well the time evaporated before we realized it. I will of course see her again because we have a long history and I am just as much to blame for not keeping an eye on the time.

 

I'm just wondering if this happens often?

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31731]

I'm just going to put this out there see if it makes any sense...say you speak to an sp and you ask does she provide dfk and she tells you yes..you meet her and she notices you have a cold sore or or maybe your lips are cracked and she doesn't feel comfortable kissing you for her own safety reasons

Does that mean that it's her fault and she should then have to pay you a small portion of the fee back??

I think not (just my opinion)

I can understand if she says she takes trips to Greece or she had a certain toy and when you arrive none of that happens but when it comes to a hygiene issue I feel that's different

[waterat 20911]

@Prufrock: I've never had that happen - but I have had ladies allow extra time when we've spent so much time chatting that it takes us longer to assure both of us are very happy and, of course, I've provided an extra tip with the usual result also being that I'll be back for more visits.

 

@Danielle: I completely agree with you - hygiene is critical and y m m v always applies.

[50 Shades Raven 31380]

I'm just going to put this out there see if it makes any sense...say you speak to an sp and you ask does she provide dfk and she tells you yes..you meet her and she notices you have a cold sore or or maybe your lips are cracked and she doesn't feel comfortable kissing you for her own safety reasons

Does that mean that it's her fault and she should then have to pay you a small portion of the fee back??

I think not (just my opinion)

I can understand if she says she takes trips to Greece or she had a certain toy and when you arrive none of that happens but when it comes to a hygiene issue I feel that's different

 

your health and safety come first in this.

The client should be forthcoming with any potential issues' date=' but I feel this is your call. No portion of the fee should be expected returned to client, after all, it is your time and companionship that is covering the fee.

 

As long as there is an understanding between the sp and the client, I don't see why a client would expect anything less.

After all, when you are speaking with a client over the phone/text/email etc, we have no idea that they may have something such as you described, it is only upon arrival that you will notice anything.

Tactfully bringing it up will reassure any client.[/color']

[Honey Man 12759]

I have very specific tastes and am a very picky man when it comes to spending money on myself. I make sure I discuss any specific details before I decide to commit to an appointment. then when I commit to me the lady in question is also committing to her side of the bargain. However on 3 occasions I have had ladies not fullfill there side of the bargain and still kept my side by making the full agreed donation and was a gentleman in that I never posted any information anywhere about me not having the type of experience I had expected. And never would I post any information about it. I know someone can have a bad day. However if a guy was to pm me and ask me direct then and only then would I share my experience. And one time it happened it turned out that same lady on here had offered certain things and used the same excuse as she did on me. I understand the nature of this board in that its more of post a review as long as its positive. I understand the danger in that a guy could post a negative review to be vindictive and understand there is always two sides to any story. However its to bad here there is not a mechanism for trusted members to provide accurate feedback on certain things. Much like the ladies have a section they can post bad date info. And in that section the lady in question should equally have an opportunity to tell her side of the story.

[waterat 20911]

@Honey Man: I recognize what you're referring to but I'm certain any clients area would require a whole whack of moderation - i.e. way too much.

 

There is also the issue of who is a 'trusted member'? - someone who has hundreds of posts but rarely strays from the colour of your underwear, what you last bought, what you'll buy next, movie ABC's etc. threads doesn't necessarily count in my books.

 

While cerb/lyla is not a perfect set-up I truly appreciate the positivity and am happy to avoid the 'other' sites.

[Guest]

@honeyman ���� might apply to what you are talking about. Some things depend on an individual evaluation from person to person. If I'm right about what you are talking about??? It's too bad because sometimes it's just easier to take something away than to upset people that don't understand the ���� concept.

 

With that being said, what you are talking about usually requires an extra donation. I can't see a lady taking your money/strong holding you. Unless you gave the extra money to her and at this point the onus is on you? You could have not given the extra donation money, or asked for the extra money back? Maybe a communication misunderstanding? It does seem like it's a reoccurring problem for you. Could there be something you could change to ensure you get what you are looking for?

 

 

I have very specific tastes and am a very picky man when it comes to spending money on myself. I make sure I discuss any specific details before I decide to commit to an appointment. then when I commit to me the lady in question is also committing to her side of the bargain. However on 3 occasions I have had ladies not fullfill there side of the bargain and still kept my side by making the full agreed donation and was a gentleman in that I never posted any information anywhere about me not having the type of experience I had expected. And never would I post any information about it. I know someone can have a bad day. However if a guy was to pm me and ask me direct then and only then would I share my experience. And one time it happened it turned out that same lady on here had offered certain things and used the same excuse as she did on me. I understand the nature of this board in that its more of post a review as long as its positive. I understand the danger in that a guy could post a negative review to be vindictive and understand there is always two sides to any story. However its to bad here there is not a mechanism for trusted members to provide accurate feedback on certain things. Much like the ladies have a section they can post bad date info. And in that section the lady in question should equally have an opportunity to tell her side of the story.

[Honey Man 12759]

@honeyman ���� might apply to what you are talking about. Some things depend on an individual evaluation from person to person. If I'm right about what you are talking about??? It's too bad because sometimes it's just easier to take something away than to upset people that don't understand the ���� concept.

 

With that being said, what you are talking about usually requires an extra donation. I can't see a lady taking your money/strong holding you. Unless you gave the extra money to her and at this point the onus is on you? You could have not given the extra donation money, or asked for the extra money back? Maybe a communication misunderstanding? It does seem like it's a reoccurring problem for you. Could there be something you could change to ensure you get what you are looking for?

 

 

I am very clear when I make an arraignment to see someone. And yes your correct lovely lady certain things do require an extra donation and said donation was given. And said extra donation amount was not asked by me to be returned when an lame excuse was provided as to why said activity would not happen.

 

The good news is those occurrences where in the past. Now I am more apt to see someone and only if things went well would I then bring up the topic when and if I called to discuss a second visit. So the lady in question knows who I am and can then decide if she is comfortable with said activity or not.

[Bully 383]

Interesting subject. Failed expectations, I think most of us can relate on the male side. This said, this has been noted on the SP side as well. Yep, sometimes there are failed meetings. After all, these encounters deal with some of the most personal of subjects. When people click it can be stellar, when not well the price to be paid. For myself, I personally never recall a memorable "sure thing". And at the end of the day, as the Ladies say, your paying for their time. As far as contract agreement goes, I'm not hiring a painter. The language spoken seems to detract from (hopefully) an intimate, passionate mutually positive encounter.

[Guest]

I am very clear when I make an arraignment to see someone. And yes your correct lovely lady certain things do require an extra donation and said donation was given. And said extra donation amount was not asked by me to be returned when an lame excuse was provided as to why said activity would not happen.

 

The good news is those occurrences where in the past. Now I am more apt to see someone and only if things went well would I then bring up the topic when and if I called to discuss a second visit. So the lady in question knows who I am and can then decide if she is comfortable with said activity or not.

 

Some ladies do post on their websites, ect, that certain things are not 100% guaranteed. They also express this before the date via email, ect, thinking that the client(s) will understand and respect that. Unfortunately, not all do. At that point, it just becomes easier for the lady to remove what some expect to avoid further problems.

 

"And said extra donation amount was not asked by me to be returned when an lame excuse was provided as to why said activity would not happen."

[Guest]

My last words on this subject because quite frankly it has become tiresome with people resorting to emotion and using words that are deliberately inflammatory.

 

Not all clients are perfect. Some are complete arseholes. They can be dangerous, they can be liars, they can be thieves.

 

Not all providers are perfect, they can be dangerous, they can be liars, they can be thieves.

 

Not all encounters could be considered contractual because of the nebulous way the encounter was set up. e.g. no specific requests, no promises, just let it flow. But not all encounters are that way, and sometimes clients have specific requests or providers make certain promises of service.

 

The question here was whether or not a contract exists and what rights does someone have if one or other party violates that contract. And that went for both providers and clients. Although the original question was from a clients point of view we have examined and discussed the topic in a civil manner.

 

One of the very valid points made in this argument was that if a client contracted for full service, completed the act and took the envelope back, was that it would be sexual assault. And I have no problem with that. That is axiomatic in my mind.

 

But on the other hand to suggest that someone seeking restitution from a provider for breaching an agreement, is "rapey" well that is offensive.

 

Sexual assault is something serious, and to refer to it in this context actually belittles those who have been victims, and points the finger at people who may have been victims of a someone whose sole intention was essentially fraudulent. It is being used like a trump card to justify a point of view.

 

Once we result to these kinds of logical fallacies to win an argument I am the hell out of here.

 

I don't think there is a woman out there who didn't understand the context of the word "rapey"..... because we are women. Because we have all felt it at one time or another .. and it does not have to be physical. It is that subtle mental and emotional power some men hold over women. That hard to define manipulative control that makes us feel objectified, indebted... and just "less than". It is hard to say it is specifically when a man says or does x or y .... but as a women you sure as hell know the feeling when it happens.