Destigmatizing clients, any suggestions?

[Nathalie L 112512]

I'm 'out' about being an escort in my personal life. When I meet new people, I test the waters before I tell them but I don't hesitate overly long.

 

The issue I often face when meeting new people is something along the following.

 

They say, "it's alright that you're an escort, but... your clients... aren't they kind of gross? Isn't it nasty to have to do things you don't want to do with people you aren't attracted to, or who are dirty?"

 

I'm always really amazed that people say those sorts of things. I adore my clients, and I'm lucky to have had very positive experiences. They ask me lots of mean questions (i.e. about hygiene, weight, appearance, STIs, etc) as if this were a reason to stigmatize, or dislike, not my job as an escort, but rather the clients that seek my services...

 

Ewwww seems to be their reaction.

 

So I've done a few things to 'humanize' clients in the minds of the people I meet. I usually say,

 

"Do you like your dad, brother, uncle, cousin?"

"Well, of course", they say.

"He's probably my most typical client", I respond.

 

They are shocked. I say other things too, of course, but that's usually where I start...

 

My question is for the clients on the board, if you could say anything to the people I talk to, what would you want to say about yourself? While I'm really good at defending my clients in these situations, I'm curious to see what other people would say if they could be open about their involvement on CERB.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Yes, I face this almost daily too:(

My statement is this....

I have never been treated with the amount respect and caring in my "real" life as I experience with my clients! My clients genuinely care for me, respect me and want to see me happy and safe. They open the door for me, they support me, make me laugh and blush. They wish me happy birthday, Merry Christmas and Happy Thanksgiving! I have dated, and those men don't even bother with any of that!

 

As for the "gross" client, you have one chance to meet me. If you do not meet my standards, then you either show up next time meeting my standards, or you will get bare min service and not return. But truthfully, this hardly ever happens. I mean gross, as in not cleaned, showered, etc....I do not expect everyone to be a hunk, haahha...this is about a service designed to make men feel good about themselves, feeling cared for, looked after. So as long as they leave happy and confident, then so am I!

 

I take pride in what I do, and put every effort into providing a service that accomplishes all that.

 

There has been one or a few, that I had to have "a talk with" about hygiene. They seemed to have listened to me, as they do arrive ready for a date.

But if you are ever rude or mean, then you are leaving ASAP.

 

People just see us a s victims, or whatever....But after you chat with us, you see we are much more in control and have more respect then you would think.

I AM NOT A VICTIM! I AM SELF EMPLOYED, PROVIDING A MUCH NEEDED SERVICE. AND THIS MAKES ME HAPPY. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!

 

Best wishes,

xoxoxo, Sophia

 

 

OOOPSY, JUST NOTICED. This is a question for the clients hahhaha

[Guest webothscore]

My take is that maybe these people are trying to get a visual of what a client looks like or behaves like without realizing the range of clients out there. Also, there are endless reasons why clients pay roses for massages/FS, etc but they might get that "gross" feeling simply because of the transaction. Like everything else, some fail to empathize from all angles and their thinking might be off a touch. No biggie. It doesn't change our lifes. "We" can still go about our exercises, diets, education, being positive, employed, good hygiene, well travelled, good conversation, great breath, trimmed nuts :) and endless other traits that have probably eluded their minds. If they are questioning us, they might just be by default questioning you too without coming out and saying it, I say might, and if so, I defend the lovely ladies from that end as well.

[Wolf Knight 29667]

Nat,

 

There are so many falsehoods that surround this business on both sides. Quiet frankly , in my everyday life I'm quite sure that nobody would surmise that I choose to enjoy the company of companions. I don't have that "seedy" factor that many wrongly assume about clients and companions.

 

I take my small kids who I adore to swimming lessons and sit with all the other parents waiting for my daughter at her dance lessons. I always make sure that whenever possible I'm home to brush my kids teeth, read them their story and put them to bed. I'm silly and can reduce myself to a child to play with them and relate to the world on their level. I'm an excellent Dad. I'm at the top of my profession, wear a suit almost every day and day in, day out I professionally present the image of walking the straight and narrow. Despite the irony, I am an excellent supportive husband that actually worships his wife and thanks the stars every day that she is in my life. I volunteer for charities, play music and sing at old age homes to entertain throughout the year in an attempt to just contribute a little bit more.

 

To the outside world I present the epitome of having my life together. I'm sure I'm not alone in this there are other clients who's own story mirrors mine. Just as you state many of us clients are in fact just "real everyday people". We all have our own personal reasons why we choose to enjoy the company of companions but for many of us that reason is not that, "nobody else would have sex with us unless paid". It's so much more broad and can't just be reduced to "dollars for sex". Yes there is sex, but in my case it's more about an aspect of intimacy and closeness that I crave and sometimes that's just simply the sensation of a beautiful ladies hand in mine as we lay together. Beautiful, simple and definitely not "gross".

 

I don't know if I explained myself or my thoughts properly but it can just be summed up by saying, "I'm an everyday real man".

[Midnite-Energies 110563]

I know you asked for client input but I wanted to comment here.

 

I think the big thing that should be communicated is that our guests are just like anyone else. Everyone has wants and needs, some that get met and some that don't. Our clients are just more pro-active in having their needs met in a safe and enjoyable way that harms no one. Everyone needs human touch and companionship yet sometimes life gets in the way of being able to have committed and fulfilling relationships. As men and women, we too often deny ourselves basic needs for no apparent reason except that we "should". Our clients could be, and normally are, anyone of any walk of life, any color, race and even religion. No different from friends, family, co-workers, neighbors or favorite barrista. It's not just about sex, it's about human connection and companionship, touch, focusing on ones self for a moment in time. Something everyone wants at one time or another.

[cu***ngl***us 2024]

As a client I say that I am intelligent funny loving and I am like everyone else. No different than most except that I love the company of young women.And I am lucky enough to be able to fulfill my fantasy.

Posted via Mobile Device

[piano8950 32577]

Someone very close to me died a while back because of a health issue. Its a dicey situation, and can happen very abruptly, and I saw the pain of my friend's family. A month later I started to volunteer to help other people in that situation. Since I was on a street with close access to a 24 hour bus line that went to the hospital, I was the go to guy if someone was needed in the night time. I dealt with families who were angry, upset, and very confused. I was the guy who they could lash out at, vent their frustration, hug, and/or listen to their stories of loved ones passed.

 

I have a few secrets in life that almost no one knows, seeing SP is one, volunteering is another. I did not want to say what I did for admiration or anything of that sort. My point with all of this is that if any of those families saw me, from the very conservative types to the anything goes liberals, I doubt anyone of them would assume I visit SPs. I probably don't fit the societal mold.

 

To my friends, I'm one of "those" fanatics who are constantly pushing female rights. I was blessed with an unusual amount of patience which has been valuable for helping older people get comfortable with computers.

 

Basically, I'm the brother, uncle, cousin that Nathalie mentions. I'm probably no different then anyone else.

[Guest realnicehat]

Personally, I think one of the biggest misconceptions about clients (and the industry in general) is that we are only interested in sex.

 

What has always been shown in movies and on TV is the wham bam thank you ma'am world of escorting. Seedy motels, back alley bj's, a lady grabbing a wad of cash from a bedside table while the man lays in bed looking slightly ashamed.

 

I don't think a lot of people understand that sexual gratification is only a small part of what a lot of us seek. The public's perception is money for sex, plain and simple. They aren't aware of the cuddling, the laughter, the conversation.

 

If I were to open up about my involvement in this world I think what I'd want people to understand is what I actually get out of it. Truth be told, the majority of the satisfaction I receive comes from affection more than anything else. Orgasms aren't hard to come by but warmth, a connection or a gentle touch can mean the world to a person who, for whatever reason, may not have it in their everyday life.

 

I would like them to realize that for me it is not an exchange of money for sexual acts. I am not paying to get off and get out. It is not about objectification or exploitation. For me it is a simple matter of adoration.

 

People who have not experienced it do not understand the simplistic beauty of the client/provider relationship. That at the core we have cut through the awkwardness of courtship, the fear of rejection and allowed ourselves the opportunity to explore/satisfy our most basic human needs free of worry that at the other end of it all someone may get hurt.

[roamingguy 300292]

It's unfortunate there are stigmas about this lifestyle out in the "civilian" world. These are the most honest relationships I've had with women, no expectations on anyone's part except to be treated with respect

From my vantage point, the ladies have provided me with a much needed escape, companionship and in some cases even friendship.

And all encounters, even though the gentleman pays the lady a donation, still respect the lady's boundaries.

I feel I am a better man today for the ladies I have met in this lifestyle. And all the ladies in this lifestyle are very special, for it takes someone very special to be a professional companion. They are much more than just providers of sex. I feel more open with some of the ladies I see than other people in my life. They provide a intimate connection, an escape and companionship, one which I cherish and appreciate

A rambling

RG

[olderguy 5797]

Like many of the previous posters I am: a boss, a dad, a little league coach, an uncle, a brother, someone's significant other, a neighbor - pretty much your typical gray haired law abiding tax payer. But I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford to spend some special private time with some very special ladies. This is a complete secret from absolutely everyone except the ladies I see. Part of the allure is that it is my own secret - a part of me that is not predictable. Different than anyone would expect of me.

[mrgreen760 37785]

I'm a dabbler and I've dabbled in many things and get bored and move on to something new. This is just one of those things and I'll get bored and I will move on.

 

And I hope I'm not normal....I've fought against normalcy my entire life and so far so good :)

 

Peace

MG

[Happyjack 1090]

I agree with a number of the other posts that one of the big misconceptions people have about the client/SP relationship is that it is all about sex. For me it is way more about the emotional connection and the pleasure of an SP's company.

[cinelli 22184]

I was really sick, near fatal, not long ago.

 

My two fave ladies provided an incredible amount of support, hospital visits, getting my prescriptions, phoning and checking up on me. After what they did for me I'd take a bullet for them anyday.

[Frank7 3939]

Not exactly what you asked, but answering to the title.

 

I don't think clients will ever be completly destimatized, because of the secret. Even when sex works become fully legal, a lot of clients still won't come out. That will be seen as shame or as them knowing that what they do is wrong.

 

For your actual question, i'm not exactly sure what i'd want you to say. I'm more or less open about being a client and so far i didn't get any negativity about it. People mostly asked why and some a little concern for my safety, but that's it. My friends asked some questions about the ladies too.

 

I guess people ask providers about clients and clients about providers. Not in the person's face. =/

[Brad 49548]

Terrific thread, Nathalie!

 

I would just really want people to know the respect I have for the ladies I have the opportunity to meet.

 

I could handle assumptions that I must be a loser. Or gross. Could only possibly get sexy by paying for it. Addicted to boobs (okay, that last one may have some truth).

 

But I find the stereotype that I'm happily exploiting women who must surely be victimized deeply troubling and insulting.

[WriteOn 3250]

I'm not so sure that clients are that stigmatized. With all the high profile politicians, athletes and entertainers being caught with prostitutes I always thought that the general consensus was that all men were dogs and would do what ever they needed to to get laid.

[WhiteKnight 1413]

Great topic Nat, as usual very thoughtful, thanks for helping make this corner of the internet one of a kind :)

 

One aspect that is not talked about much here (excluding past references to superb documentaries such as The Sessions and Scarlet Road) is the astonishing therapeutic, learning and growing opportunities afforded by this community. With the help of many CERB ladies (and one in particular that will recognize herself :) ) I was able to transform myself from an extremely shy, ignorant, unskilled lover to a *badass* lover (ok, ok, maybe I wish that and I am simply a not too bad lover lol!). I have learned so much, about women, about myself, and I have gained confidence beyond my wildest dreams. I strive to share the best of myself in return. I still have much learning to do, but it is now *exciting* and *fun*, not stressful! This transformation would never have been possible if not for the ladies that chose this occupation, sharing their joy and vicissitudes, sensuality, patience, wisdom and support, with open hearts. I feel privileged. Maybe I am idealistic, but this really should be celebrated!

 

So Nat, to answer your question, maybe you can say that some clients (at least one!), are thirsting to learn and improve themselves, as men, as friends to women, as lovers, and to discover women's mesmerizing erotic universe.

[roamingguy 300292]

I'm not so sure that clients are that stigmatized. With all the high profile politicians, athletes and entertainers being caught with prostitutes I always thought that the general consensus was that all men were dogs and would do what ever they needed to to get laid.

 

That consensus you elude too is part of the reason there is stigmatization. While sex is part of an encounter, for many gentlemen, we appreciate and value the connection, companionship, escape and sometimes friendships the ladies provide. Professional companions are much more than providers of sex, which is why the ladies are so special

A rambling

RG

[WriteOn 3250]

That consensus you elude too is part of the reason there is stigmatization. While sex is part of an encounter, for many gentlemen, we appreciate and value the connection, companionship, escape and sometimes friendships the ladies provide. Professional companions are much more than providers of sex, which is why the ladies are so special

 

 

If sex is part of the encounter then I don't know how you can say "men wanting to get laid" is part of the reason for the stigmatization. Sex is part of the encounter.

 

I realize there are many people who's view of a "client" is a fat sweaty guy driving down a dimly lit street looking for a prostitute, all I'm saying is that with all the media coverage of celebrities, politicians and athletes private lives there is a broader view of the type of man that hires an escort.

[roamingguy 300292]

If sex is part of the encounter then I don't know how you can say "men wanting to get laid" is part of the reason for the stigmatization. Sex is part of the encounter.

 

I realize there are many people who's view of a "client" is a fat sweaty guy driving down a dimly lit street looking for a prostitute, all I'm saying is that with all the media coverage of celebrities, politicians and athletes private lives there is a broader view of the type of man that hires an escort.

 

You said (copied/pasted)

 

" I always thought that the general consensus was that all men were dogs and would do what ever they needed to to get laid"

 

Men see professional companions not just for sex, but also for the emotional connection, escape, companionship, memories and even friendships made

Reducing the transaction by saying the general consensus was that all men were dogs and would do what ever they needed to get laid (your words) feeds right into the societal stigma that seeing professional companions is about sex and nothing else.

I know I value and respect the ladies I see, and I'm sure most gentlemen do. Does that make us dogs? I know I resent being labeled as such, I'm sure other gentlemen do to. And it's that labeling that leads to stigmatizing

RG

[MightyPen 67414]

with all the media coverage of celebrities, politicians and athletes private lives there is a broader view of the type of man that hires an escort.

It's a good point -- but I think that in every case the high-profile figure is cheapened and tarnished by the association. He drops a couple of rungs down the ladder. It's just that his other obvious assets of money or power are strong enough to keep him pretty high despite this. In essence, "he's rich but suffers from a sad compulsion."

 

More generally, and not really directed at your specific post:

 

So why are men stigmatized in the first place when found out to be sex work clients? It's because of that central role sex has in the historical, conservative underpinnings of our culture: it's one of the primary currencies for measuring people's level of success.

 

- Men who are accomplished are "supposed to" have easy access to sex being offered from adoring women who respond to his success and power. If he doesn't have that, then he must not be successful. And if he's paying for it, he must not have any other access to it -- there's something wrong with him.

 

- Women are expected to hold their sex in reserve as precious currency to secure marriage. If she's spending it too freely, she's cheapened; and worse, if she's selling it, she must be desperate, like pawning irreplaceable heirlooms.

 

These ideas look silly spelled out like that, but they really do hold powerful, often unspoken yet deeply held authority in our sexually conflicted culture.

 

Plus, what exposure do most people have to the industry? Only the media's portrayal, which condemns it with one hand (sex! exploitation! desperation!) at the same time it uses the sexual allure to draws viewers with its titillating side ("Look at those fishnet stockings! Tsk tsk. ...mmmm..."). It's hard to blame people who have nothing else to go on.

 

I think the thing I'd say to try to address the stigma is EXACTLY what Nathalie did so wisely in her first post: "these are the very same guys you know in your own life, and there's nothing wrong with them. It's not the clients (or SPs) that are faulty; it's your own ideas about sex and sex work."

[Guest realnicehat]

I'm 'out' about being an escort in my personal life. When I meet new people, I test the waters before I tell them but I don't hesitate overly long.

 

The issue I often face when meeting new people is something along the following.

 

They say, "it's alright that you're an escort, but... your clients... aren't they kind of gross? Isn't it nasty to have to do things you don't want to do with people you aren't attracted to, or who are dirty?"

 

I'm always really amazed that people say those sorts of things. I adore my clients, and I'm lucky to have had very positive experiences. They ask me lots of mean questions (i.e. about hygiene, weight, appearance, STIs, etc) as if this were a reason to stigmatize, or dislike, not my job as an escort, but rather the clients that seek my services...

 

Ewwww seems to be their reaction.

So I've done a few things to 'humanize' clients in the minds of the people I meet. I usually say,

 

"Do you like your dad, brother, uncle, cousin?"

"Well, of course", they say.

"He's probably my most typical client", I respond.

 

They are shocked. I say other things too, of course, but that's usually where I start...

 

My question is for the clients on the board, if you could say anything to the people I talk to, what would you want to say about yourself? While I'm really good at defending my clients in these situations, I'm curious to see what other people would say if they could be open about their involvement on CERB.

 

If you look at the highlighted portion of the quote above you will see that Nathalie posed a question to this board based on her personal experiences dealing with other peoples perceptions of her clients. She is discussing very real reactions from very real people.

 

The following two quotes however, are clearly opinion and assumption.

 

I'm not so sure that clients are that stigmatized. With all the high profile politicians, athletes and entertainers being caught with prostitutes I always thought that the general consensus was that all men were dogs and would do what ever they needed to to get laid.

 

If sex is part of the encounter then I don't know how you can say "men wanting to get laid" is part of the reason for the stigmatization. Sex is part of the encounter.

 

I realize there are many people who's view of a "client" is a fat sweaty guy driving down a dimly lit street looking for a prostitute, all I'm saying is that with all the media coverage of celebrities, politicians and athletes private lives there is a broader view of the type of man that hires an escort.

 

WriteOn, I'm not saying you don't have the right to have an opinion but if we take Nathalie's post at face value (and we have no reason not to) then we must consider that the public's view might not be that broad.

 

Now I'm making assumptions but it does not appear as though the first questions out of the mouths of Nathalie's acquaintances are "so what is Tiger Woods like? Do you know Charlie Sheen too?". The questions being posed do seem to prove that the stigma is there regardless of who we may see get busted in the media.

[WriteOn 3250]

I think the thing I'd say to try to address the stigma is EXACTLY what Nathalie did so wisely in her first post: "these are the very same guys you know in your own life, and there's nothing wrong with them. It's not the clients (or SPs) that are faulty; it's your own ideas about sex and sex work."

 

 

I don't have any data to support my opinion, it's just that, my opinion. I believe that today, people in general have a broader view of the type of man that visits sex workers, ie, the everyman.

 

Yes there will always be people who sterotype (or are naive) but I honestly believe that most people realize that the type of man that visits prostitutes is your neighbor, your co-worker, your brother.

[Mister T 45020]

 

My question is for the clients on the board, if you could say anything to the people I talk to, what would you want to say about yourself? While I'm really good at defending my clients in these situations, I'm curious to see what other people would say if they could be open about their involvement on CERB.

 

Thanks for starting this thread, Nat. In answer to your question, basically i tell people, when the opportunity arises, is basically this, in one way, shape or form:

[qwertyaccount 15793]

It's now an oldie, but you've probably seen "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts and Richard Gere.

 

Tell folks that many clients are a lot like Richard Gere's character, just not as rich.