Cowboy kenny 50799 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 Indulge me here if you will on a bit of a rant and reminder regarding NO SHOWS. Apologies to anterlman for cutting in on his rant turf!! :) I've heard a number of complaints and concerns raised in the past while from various providers regarding clients who pull no shows and how frustrating it can be for them. I agree entirely that no shows mean time wasted, frustration and lost income and in the end they are just plain rude. In this day and age of communications tools ridding on our hips with a touch of a few buttons we can send a text, email or even an old fashion actual phone call to explain that we might be late, or possibly unable to attend. While it's still frustrating and lost income, the courtesy of the communication is appreciated and expected. I'd like to point out that the same frustrations are experienced from the client's perspective and that hopefully those new to the hobby or just not aware that when a provider pulls a no show it can be equally frustrating, is certainly a waste of time and can also result in lost income. I'm not sure that some providers take that into consideration when bailing out at the last minute or just not showing up as planned. Having recently had to dance through hoops in some cases to meet some established and well recommended ladies only to have the appointments booked and re booked or plain out canceled with little to no notice. Twice this has happened in recent weeks and twice it has ticked me off. I understand that life happens and shit hits the fan every now and then but I would hope and expect that the common courtesy of a phone call or text to explain why you've been waiting in a hotel lobby for 30 minutes is not to much to ask, is it ? This isn't directed to any one in particular by rather to serve as a reminder to all to do unto others as you would have them do to you. Thanks for hearing me out! 27 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m**k 153 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 This is unfortunately a too common occurence in everyday life these days, nevermind in this hobby. I've also had similar situations occur with a few well reviewed and well respected sps here and...well, unless there is an honest apology, I vote with my feet and move on. I feel that it is extremely disrespectful and I just completely lose interest in spending any more time with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buggernot 588 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 I don't want to poop all over this, but I honestly think you might as well be shouting at the referees in the game on the TV screen. And even if you tell an asshole he's an asshole, do you think he cares? Nope...because he's an asshole. Both the sps and clients that do it don't care. That's why they do it in the first place. People who are respectful don't need to be told because they don't pull that shit. It sucks but it won't change. And let's not forget about the guys that do it intentionally because they're trying to discourage competition. It's frustrating - especially for the girls - but unfortunately it's a cost of doing this type of business. Sorry to say it, but it's true... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TracieGold 282 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 Thanks Cowboy , I had 3 show offs is week!!!! when are you coming by? I told you already tha my filliy was ired, but not so much...... Trace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted November 19, 2009 Indulge me here if you will on .... a reminder to all to do unto others as you would have them do to you. Yup, it's the one truly persistent downside that I have personally found in this hobby. That "moment of truth" just on the cusp of heaven ... when the dreaded black hole yawns wide and a day's carefully arranged fun vanishes. (Often enough, not even a courtesy call manages to escape that black hole as succor for the lost.) There's a number of threads and posts on Cerb about various aspects (and both sides!) of the "no-show" phenomenon ... I feel that there is definitely a therapeutic benefit to openly naming this Beast every once in a while, even if probably little practical benefit in doing so. It's something that is a part of reality, and is not a problem that can ever be "solved" ... the unexpected will always pop up in everyone's life every now and then. In practice, I subscribe to the Pareto Principle -- 80% of the problems are created by 20% of the sample. So I do remember exactly who has constituted my personal 20% (and their explanations, if any). I judge my subsequent choices accordingly (sometimes not without a certain lingering regret). In the end, of course, (need it be said!) the lovely ladies are oh, so well worth the bumps that sometimes crop up during the course of the hobbyist's celestial voyage! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sexy bbw vero 425 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 A similar story happend to me today ... Obviously, there's some communication problems between customers and us ... not so often but sometimes ... I had someone today who text me to know if I was working around 7:00pm tonight ... I text him back "yes". Then he ask me where I'm located. I gave him the name of my hotel. He text me back "can I book for 7:30pm, I will call you at 6:00 tonight to confirm if ok" ... I answer him "ok". So the rdv was not yet fixed ... alright? I don't know him and he's not sure to come anyway ... At 5:15pm ... I got a call from one of my regular ... booked a rdv with him for 6:30 ... finished at 8:00pm. I took my messages after my rdv ... 2 or 3 message from the first guy on my cell phone. 1- Hello I want to confirm the rdv ... 2- are we still up for tonight (???? we where supposed????) 3- text message at 7:35: I'm in the lobby of your hotel, what is the # of your room.( why did he came in the lobby of my hotel. He never had any confirmation from me ... ) Am I wrong or ?? ... be free to answer me because I think there's always a place for amelioration if so. :? Finally ... I felt bad even I was thinking that I did the good thing ... how many customers tell us that they will call back to confirm around a certain hour and never call back ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 A similar story happend to me today ... Obviously, there's some communication problems between customers and us ... not so often but sometimes ... I had someone today who text me to know if I was working around 7:00pm tonight ... I text him back "yes". Then he ask me where I'm located. I gave him the name of my hotel. He text me back "can I book for 7:30pm, I will call you at 6:00 tonight to confirm if ok" ... I answer him "ok". So the rdv was not yet fixed ... alright? I don't know him and he's not sure to come anyway ... At 5:15pm ... I got a call from one of my regular ... booked a rdv with him for 6:30 ... finished at 8:00pm. I took my messages after my rdv ... 2 or 3 message from the first guy on my cell phone. 1- Hello I want to confirm the rdv ... 2- are we still up for tonight (???? we where supposed????) 3- text message at 7:35: I'm in the lobby of your hotel, what is the # of your room.( why did he came in the lobby of my hotel. He never had any confirmation from me ... ) Am I wrong or ?? ... be free to answer me because I think there's always a place for amelioration if so. :? Finally ... I felt bad even I was thinking that I did the good thing ... how many customers tell us that they will call back to confirm around a certain hour and never call back ... in a situation like this, what I've learned is always to remind the potential client that you "may" be available at that time, but unless they can confirm that they absolutely want that time-frame and provide you with a cell number for you to call them on at that exact hour (not "around") that they've requested in case of an emergency, then they do not have an appointment. Enforce that you need at LEAST an hour's notice and you as the SP, need to get that message and confirm it before he can even step a foot near your hotel. seriously tho...lingering in the lobby....while texting over and over...even if he DID go up, do you think the hotel lobby staff wouldn't have watched what floor the elevator stopped at? This shows a client who *ONE* isnt willing to make a solid booking....and *TWO* is not willing to consider their's or your discretion. granted, some people are new and dont understand that this is a business....but hopefully you sent him a polite email afterwards telling him the reasons wht his approach was not "how this works" ...- on the subject of CKs original problem, I have turned into the most anal businesswoman after going indi in this business...and for the better. I find in most cases if I'm dealing with someone (SP, or chick I'm trying to buy somenthing off of Usedottawa.ca etc) that the younger they are, the flakier their business ettiquette is. I have Blacklisted SPs that flake on duos and Blacklisted Graphic Design clients that are no-shows for meetings.....time is money, and I'm not going to let anyone waste my time. I had a Graphics client studder and wonder why I decided not to take on his project after he suggested we meet at a fancy restaurant where I drank for an hour by myself only to have him not show up coz he "forgot" he said "so thats it? you dont need my money? dont you know what I'm willing to pay you??" sound familiar girls? No-shows and flakes are unacceptable in ANY business...whether you're on the service end or on the client's receiving end...and a terrible businesswoman has just as much to lose as a no-show client. That being said, I know there is a warnings section for the gents, but are they allowed to post no-shows etc in that section. No-showing is ridiculous....sometimes a si ple call to say "I'll be 10 mins late" works wonders. commmonnnnnn! 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest s******ecan**** Report post Posted November 19, 2009 No-shows and flakes are unacceptable in ANY business...whether you're on the service end or on the client's receiving end...and a terrible businesswoman has just as much to lose as a no-show client. You're right Annessa, I too am independent in my profession and one of the beauties of being independent is you can "fire" your clients. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabbler 702 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 [ A similar story happend to me today ... Obviously, there's some communication problems between customers and us ... not so often but sometimes ... I had someone today who text me to know if I was working around 7:00pm tonight ... I text him back "yes". Then he ask me where I'm located. I gave him the name of my hotel. He text me back "can I book for 7:30pm, I will call you at 6:00 tonight to confirm if ok" ... I answer him "ok". So the rdv was not yet fixed ... alright? I don't know him and he's not sure to come anyway ... At 5:15pm ... I got a call from one of my regular ... booked a rdv with him for 6:30 ... finished at 8:00pm. I took my messages after my rdv ... 2 or 3 message from the first guy on my cell phone. 1- Hello I want to confirm the rdv ... 2- are we still up for tonight (???? we where supposed????) 3- text message at 7:35: I'm in the lobby of your hotel, what is the # of your room.( why did he came in the lobby of my hotel. He never had any confirmation from me ... ) Am I wrong or ?? ... be free to answer me because I think there's always a place for amelioration if so. :? Finally ... I felt bad even I was thinking that I did the good thing ... how many customers tell us that they will call back to confirm around a certain hour and never call back ... I think that there is one more thing you could have done. Once you got the call from the regular, you could have texted the first client and asked him to confirm right then and there. If you don't hear back from him, confirm with your regular. It's a bit of a tough call though. In any business you can't turn away a sure thing for a "maybe". I personally don't do the 'call back to confirm' thing unless asked to. I consider the appointment confirmed when I make the arrangements. Dabbler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cat 262460 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 I agree with Annessa, life is too short to waste on people who do not appreciate and respect others time. That said, I have a confession. I am a flake on rare occasions and those out there who think all flakes don't feel remorse are incorrect. It kills me every time. I still have nightmares about the time I cc'd instead of bcc'ing Valentine invitations in '06. To this day I can't send out multiple emails, it literally gives me hives which is why so often I arrive in town without having sent out invites. It's not because I don't want to see and catch up with guests, but I run out of time to send out individual emails to all before my arrival. While in the confession mode, in October I stood a guest up. Why? I had a flake moment and had the time incorrect in my mind. Not in my daytimer mind you, but in my head! He buzzed and I was in the other end of the house putting finishing touches out. I came out thinking I was 20 mins ahead but was 10 mins late. He left, never to return even after I emailed and called with an explanation and apology. I don't think about it because when I do, it flips my stomach and leaves me queasy. At my age, I have learned that life is too short to be irritated or upset by those who walk amongst us who truly miss the bigger picture. They simply are in a place where they are the center of the universe. They may or may not realize we are truly insignificant and yet so precious at the same time, and I accept they may never grasp that we are all part of the same star dust. The day will come, if not in this life experience but the next when they realize that every act carries energy that effects the world on the whole. For now, I simply focus on not letting the negativity enter my little world because really that's all I have to worry about. It makes my world a much nicer place. Just MHO. Cat 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antlerman 17064 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 Indulge me here if you will on a bit of a rant and reminder regarding NO SHOWS. Apologies to anterlman for cutting in on his rant turf!! :) ..................................... No problems CK..........you can cut in any time...you are true gentleman and this topic is really important here in Ottawa...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted November 19, 2009 I know there is a warnings section for the gents, but are they allowed to post no-shows etc in that section ... The warnings section is for if you have been bait and switched, put into a dangerous position, robbed or scammed. Posting no-shows, or other negative comments, is not permitted, due to the possibility of abuse/slander. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerican 657 Report post Posted November 19, 2009 I think we should try and veer back to Kenny's original point in that we as the clients can also be impacted financially by a no show. Working in a sales role if I take a morning or afternoon for a rendezvous and at the last minute it is canceled (or communication just stops) then I have lost that morning to book meetings and work on my job and I have the frustration of a missed encounter as well. I definitely think that by and large no shows are much more prevalent, frustrating and financially damaging to the SP's but we as the clients also face challenges working out these meetings (especially if they are far in advance as I book them) and no shows don't just result in blue balls (LOL) but could also impact our day to day work lives. We could now be in the middle of downtown, everyone is expecting you to 'be at a meeting' or 'travelling' and in fact you are twiddling your thumbs. Kenny's underlying message is a great one, respect and communication needs to be a two way street! Nice post CK (as usual), thanks for making it! I should mention that I have only had a last (and I mean really last) minute cancellation once and the reasoning was good, so it is not chronic, but still frustrating. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted November 19, 2009 Cat, you are not the only flake. I must admit that I am too. I can say that my head could be in the clouds, from time to time. I think it is part of my charm, tho. I know this so I make the time for myself to get ready and I am very organized. I have to be or it is a disaster. The trick is learning from your mistakes. We are all human and that is what makes us unique bla, bla, bla. I have missed stuff too. I do feel really bad. Also at the same token life happens and sometimes you are forced to cancel. It is a respect thing. Give a call, text, or email. Most of the time the person will understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 The warnings section is for if you have been bait and switched, put into a dangerous position, robbed or scammed. Posting no-shows, or other negative comments, is not permitted, due to the possibility of abuse/slander. agreed, and noted, but in the SP only section we're allowed to post No-shows and time-wasters. This gets the message across that its up to the other SPs whether they decide to book with this client or not. And a member who is a repeat no-show is generally looked into by the mod, perhaps given a warning or generally girls they try to book with after reading of their mishaps will hint that they are not comfortable booking with them because of their lack-lustre behavior with other SPs this in turn hopefully brings about an attitude adjustment from the client, letting them know that if they continue in the same way they have so far conducted themselves, things eventually wont wok out so well why should it be different for SPs who are no shows over and over? Do we not need our attitudes adjusted if we dont provide a call and ignore our clients and leave them hanging? In the same sense as we may still report no shows (with no vindiction other than to just say "they didnt show up/answer their phone etc) I think clients (if they're mature about it) should still be able to post ladies who disappear off the face of the earth at the moment of their scheduled appointment with no explanation and no follow-up. its only fair, but thats just my opinion. Granted there are emergencies etc, but a proper business woman will call and say shes running late, give *some* kind of explanation. in that case I dont think a grudge should be held or an instance reported. But if some SP is a repeat no-show how would any of the guys know and be able to make a future judgement call? its funny...I even call when I know ahead of time that things may not work out on time to allow my client to make other arrangements if its about a certain time-frame for them...most often tho, they appreciate the call and still hold the appointment. If I made no contact, I'd be a terrible SP and would need the same attitude adjustment if this was a repeat pattern. or , I digress, maybe this has just always how its been done and I have no clue what I'm talking about, (which I'm willing to offer as a possible option, lol) .....Just playing a little devil's advocate :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PistolPete 61421 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 CK your point in your thread is well taken, and is backed by the votes you are receiving for a nominated post, and well deserving! As to the points Wringledintime and Annessa make just throwing this out there- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would tend to guess that hobbiest would pm another hobbiest about an SP that would continually blow of her appointments? SP's would do the same? The entire start to finish of CK's thread is about communication, and lack there of. Perhaps the lady/gents will realize that they will be booked, or she will not busy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest S***e Report post Posted November 20, 2009 I'm with PP and CK in all this as it's best to ensure that the lines of communication remain open to avoid inconvenience to anyone...just be considerate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatsup 11893 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 CK, it great of you to reiterate the importance of timely communications between clients and providers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 CK your point in your thread is well taken, and is backed by the votes you are receiving for a nominated post, and well deserving! As to the points Wringledintime and Annessa make just throwing this out there- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would tend to guess that hobbiest would pm another hobbiest about an SP that would continually blow of her appointments? SP's would do the same? The entire start to finish of CK's thread is about communication, and lack there of. Perhaps the lady/gents will realize that they will be booked, or she will not busy. oh totally! like I said I was just throwing it out there that I find it funny that the girls can report no-shows but it almost seems acceptable for the ladies to pull them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buggernot 588 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 oh totally! like I said I was just throwing it out there that I find it funny that the girls can report no-shows but it almost seems acceptable for the ladies to pull them I guess for lack of a better term, it is acceptable when the ladies do it because we do accept it. But it wouldn't be right to let the guys post that stuff here. We can PM or go to another board to vent. If that was allowed here, all it takes is a few bitter guys that were canceled on for a legitimate reason to throw a reputable sp's credentials into question. Even if it is for just a moment. If I get canceled on once and am given an explanation why, a second chance is warranted. If it happens the next time, sorry that's it. There's some sp's who operate with the mindset that since they get a fair share of no-shows, then they feel the need to overbook and then it's first come, first serve. New clients will be pushed aside for return customers since they are a proven commodity. Not the best way of doing business from an ethical perspective, but they still get clients and they still make a lot of money. Like anything else, once you've dealt with a few of these girls, they're fairly easy to pick out in the future. Funny thing is, they aren't bad people, they've just been burned too many times in the past with the guys not showing up. It still isn't right to work in that manner, but us guys are stupid and we put up with it...to a point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135640 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 I find it funny that the girls can report no-shows but it almost seems acceptable for the ladies to pull them The girls can do this because Ottawa has a huge problem with no shows and so far the ladies have been really good with helping each other track down these time wasters. Some guys seam to get off on booking appointments and not showing up for them. I have had to boot a number of guys off cerb for this. Now I don't boot anyone off for missing one date (accidents happen) but when 10 ladies jump in and say "Yeah, he did that to me too" than he gets the boot of course. Sometimes someone will post about a guy... and a day later she will post again and let everyone know that he contacted her and had a legit reason for missing the call. Sometimes other ladies will jump in and say "I have met with that guy a number of times with no issues" and it helps prove it was not intentional. So basically... the ladies police this area themselves and do a VERY good job of it. I don't need to moderate that side of the board and I am proud to say it does not get abused. All the legit guys who show up for dates, don't waste the ladies time, don't get violent or creepy, don't stalk the ladies, etc... well you may not realize it but you all benefit from this site of the site as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted November 20, 2009 .... I think clients (if they're mature about it) should still be able to post ladies who disappear off the face of the earth at the moment of their scheduled appointment with no explanation and no follow-up. its only fair, but thats just my opinion ... Yup yup yup, in theory it would be absolutely fair, if as you say clients are mature about it. The fly in the ointment is of course that, in the real world, all clients do not exhibit maturity. Check the abuse and slander posted on the "other" (review-type) boards to see just how much of an understatement this is. Cerb, on the other hand, was built specifically on the idea of being a place that is safe and friendly for the ladies. Being safe and friendly requires (among many other things) bending over backwards to be sure that no lady's reputation is allowed to be unfairly damaged by allegations on the public forums. On a practical level, this means that those ladies who might indeed benefit from an "attitude adjustment" (I like how Annessa puts it), as well as the ladies who might be ganged-up upon by immature clients who need an "attitude adjustment" of their own, both escape the type of grating and unfriendly public "he-said, she-said"s so common on other boards. Sure, this does in turn "unfairly" leave no-showed clients suffering in enforced-silence, as far as the Cerb public forums are concerned. But few things can be fair in all possible respects. Of necessity, most things are compromises. The Cerbian compromise on this issue errs on the side of friendliness and of not damaging the reputations of the ladies. There are worse sides to err on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PistolPete 61421 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 There was 1 other issue that should be mentioned, all individuals here should really clean out there pm box, when full, very difficult as well trying to get in touch with each other, unless you have be given the cell number exchange > communication <. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135640 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 I agree! Clean out your PM's for heavens sake... delete the SEND ITEMS as well people. LOL... (I am one to talk as I have 2553 messages currently in box... I am going to go delete some now while I am thinking about it...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PistolPete 61421 Report post Posted November 20, 2009 I agree! Clean out your PM's for heavens sake... delete the SEND ITEMS as well people. LOL... (I am one to talk as I have 2553 messages currently in box... I am going to go delete some now while I am thinking about it...) Holy crap Batman, I thought I had lots when I was up in the 90's at one time a month ago...far too much??? But it is good........ we are talking;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
