Meeting John - CBC Article

[Chocolate Dream 100]

Hi Everyone,

 

 

 

While reading the news yesterday I came across this article on a study about "the men who frequent prostitutes, known as Johns".

 

 

Meeting John - CBC The Current

I would love to hear some thoughts about the content.

 

 

Thanks,

[YoungStud 468]

My thoughts, after listening to the item:

 

1) There are a lot of common and erroneous cliches about johns, based mostly on the lower end of the sad and sorry street trade, which are frequently perpetuated by self-serving media types and dogmatic feminists.

 

2) Most johns are just average middle-aged middle-class guys who either aren't very good at having "real" relationships with women or who have a higher than average sex drive (or both) and can afford to do something about it. (Would have been good to hear more than one john interviewed, though the guy we did hear is reasonably representative of a POV we see represented fairly often here on CERB.)

 

3) There are lots of reasons why people are involved in this lifestyle, some of them rather sad and pathetic, though many are anything but that.

 

4) Most of the women who freely and thoughtfully chose to go into this profession as independent operators are very decent and very good human beings.

 

5) Good that there's some work being done in this area based on thorough research, real data and evidence-based analysis.

[buggernot 588]

Yeah, just listened to this myself - it is good to hear an unbiased perspective that has been extensively researched, instead of the usual moral grandstanding people take out of ignorance.

 

That said, this whole game that we're all playing is what it is. I don't feel guilty or immoral about it, nor do I celebrate its wonders; it's just there. It has pros and cons about it like anything else in life, so to come across a study that paints a more realistic picture, demonstrates the potential benefits, and shows a traditionally vilified activity as being human...maybe it can hopefully balance the scales somewhat.

 

I almost participated in that study; contacted Chris Atchison about it and received a reply, but did not have the time to participate. Wondering if anyone here did and if so, how did the interview go?

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

A couple more opinions can be found on the previous thread:

 

http://cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21370

[Suzirider 737]

Ms Alexis says, "...pay some one for a sex act ?....casual sex is available..."

NSA ? for the average guy ? for free ? where ?

(I'm not hard on the eyes or rude...must be living in the wrong town)

Never in my life, has a girl offered to treat me to dinner, movie, show up in her car, with flowers, expecting that I will put out later. Guess all these years I had it backwards. :oops: :roll:

 

"...for the next 20 minutes I own you and..."

Any one ever heard of a john saying that ?

 

And Susie, your voice could hypnotize me.

[geo007 203]

I listened to it all which means it did resonate somewhat with me. I liked it because we Johns are usually hit on the head with ``you are exploiting women`` theme.This didn't come across here. I would have liked more johns being interviewed presenting other facets of our situations. The one presented is of a bachelor really and half the Johns are married like me. Any difference on how the married Johns treat the escorts?? Would be interesting . And the social benefits for married Johns. I know it's keeping my marriage together and reasonably happy. A good piece however which may provoke more John interviews .

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Andrea Woo on the "John's Voice" study, in the Vancouver Sun, 17 Jan 2010:

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/johns+turn+violent+study/2453355/story.html

People who buy sex are no more violent than the general population

, and any legislation about prostitution should not be based on the incorrect belief that all johns are abusive, says a Simon Fraser University sociologist researching the subject.

 

Chris Atchison surveyed more than 1,000 johns between June 2008 and April 2009 for his controversial study, entitled Johns? Voice.

 

Based on about 1,000 anonymous online responses and 24 in-depth interviews, Atchison concluded that johns do not appear to be any more aggressive than the rest of the population and should therefore not be painted as uniformly evil.

 

He said 1.9 per cent reported having hit, pushed or physically attacked a prostitute, one per cent reported having raped or sexually assaulted a prostitute and 1.7 per cent reported having robbed a prostitute.

 

?The question becomes, ?How different are sex buyers from any other member of the population??? said Atchison.

 

?With this particular sample, there doesn?t appear to be large differences because one can assume that in the regular population, about that same percentage of men are probably violent and aggressive in their daily lives as well.?

 

He suggested that legislation regarding prostitution should focus specifically on this subset.

 

Atchison also said johns were victimized themselves sometimes, with 42.9 per cent of participants reporting having paid for services they did not receive, 18.6 per cent saying they had been verbally abused by a prostitute and 19.8 per cent saying they had been robbed by a prostitute.

 

At 29.4 per cent, the most frequently cited form of retaliation against a prostitute by a john was posting a negative review on an online forum.

 

The study drew strong criticism from some quarters.

 

?It?s an outrageous study and it really works towards normalizing sexual assault,? said Aurea Flynn of the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women?s Shelter.

 

?I?m really angry about the emphasis on the compassion for johns that the study provides and I?m very concerned about its impact on the continued normalization of prostitution in Canada because I believe prostitution is violence against women.?

 

Flynn was particularly angered by what she called the demonizing of a marginalized population that is often forced into the sex trade due to a lack of options.

 

Atchison said 79.9 per cent of johns surveyed wanted prostitution legalized for ?altruistic reasons,? such as to protect prostitutes with health and safety regulations.

 

But Flynn said: ?I believe that is the johns wanting to protect themselves from contracting diseases, which they are very afraid of.

 

?If they really wanted to help women, they?d be fighting for better welfare rates, universal child care, universal education and job skills training.?

 

She believes the legalization of prostitution would increase human trafficking and the exploitation of women.

 

The Vancouver Rape Relief and Women?s Shelter ? which defines prostitution itself as an act of violence ? actively campaigns for its abolition.

 

The call for study participants was advertised in newspapers and magazines as well as through online and off-line community forums, said Atchison.

 

The study is part of a larger research project funded by the Canadian Institute for Health Research and the B.C. Medical Services Foundation designed to understand the beliefs, experiences, opinions and activities of both prostitutes and johns.

 

Atchison said survey questions were phrased in strategic ways to increase the likelihood of honest answers.

 

In response to the question of how a john would react to an ?unsafe? situation, for example, 62.4 per cent stated they would leave, three per cent said they would fight and 3.6 per cent chose a ?mix of violent and non-violent solutions.?

 

Atchison said he did not feel anonymous participants had reason to lie about their interactions with prostitutes.

 

?If we are going to implement some sort of system to govern prostitution in Canada, it makes very little sense that system be one that is putatively focused towards a population that hasn?t demonstrated itself to be any more prone to violence than any other population,? said Atchison.

 

?By alienating an entire population by criminalizing them, what we effectively do is potentially lose allies in a very real battle to prevent violence and victimization.?

[Guest s******ecan****]

Andrea Woo on the "John's Voice" study, in the Vancouver Sun, 17 Jan 2010:

 

 

?It?s an outrageous study and it really works towards normalizing sexual assault,? said Aurea Flynn of the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women?s Shelter.

?I?m really angry about the emphasis on the compassion for johns that the study provides and I?m very concerned about its impact on the continued normalization of prostitution in Canada because I believe prostitution is violence against women.?

 

 

People that think in extreme terms like this are such a turn off. Spouting such rhetorical nonesense serves no useful end. Speech in the hands of someone like this becomes a bludgeon. I'd counter that her rhetoric constitutes violence against reason and common sense.

[buggernot 588]

People who don't know shit shouldn't be allowed to be quoted in the news. This woman is simply stating her opinion which has no basis in fact. It's just as easy to rebut her assertions by saying better welfare rates would be bad because it will only produce more white-trash children.

 

And who's to say that those who profess to wanting prostitution legal are not also fighting for universal education and job skills training? That kind of black and white logic belongs in a mental institution.

 

Atchison said 79.9 per cent of johns surveyed wanted prostitution legalized for ?altruistic reasons,? such as to protect prostitutes with health and safety regulations.

 

But Flynn said: ?I believe that is the johns wanting to protect themselves from contracting diseases, which they are very afraid of.

 

?If they really wanted to help women, they?d be fighting for better welfare rates, universal child care, universal education and job skills training.?

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

... That kind of black and white logic belongs in a mental institution ...

 

Or, if you, will, black and black logic.

[Newton 714]

Do johns have a lower divorce rate than non-johns?

 

Anyone aware any such study?

 

;)

Posted via Mobile Device

[Susie 1472]

i'm glad people approve!it was a big decision for this guy to come out. i hope that as these conversations take place more and more we will begin to break down the stigma around being a sex worker or consumer.

 

it;s probably a long way off, but at least if the mainstream community are aware of the truth about us, it may influence future policies that can affect our safety.

 

a woman from calgary contacted me and it seems another round of research with sex consumers is coming our way. she seemed to be a supporter butthem discussed facilitating a sex addiction counselling group...? i stated that i wasn't sure that information from people considering themselves sex addicts would generate clear data on exactly "who" sex consumers are and "where they come from"....?

 

she dropped some big names in research but we'll see...

 

scary times for us all. these next years will determine all of fates and will decide if business owners and clients are to made more criminal and the focus of enforcement.

 

love susieXXXO

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Chris Atchison's "Report of the Preliminary Findings for Johns' Voice: A Study of Canadian Sex Buyers" (January 2010) is now available on the Johns' Voice website in the form of a 36 page pdf:

 

http://24.85.225.7/johnsvoice/docs/JOHNS_VOICE_GENERAL_RESULTS_EXECUTIVE_SUMMARY_FINAL_DIST.pdf

[Chocolate Dream 100]

Chris Atchison's "Report of the Preliminary Findings for Johns' Voice: A Study of Canadian Sex Buyers" (January 2010) is now available on the Johns' Voice website in the form of a 36 page pdf:

 

http://24.85.225.7/johnsvoice/docs/JOHNS_VOICE_GENERAL_RESULTS_EXECUTIVE_SUMMARY_FINAL_DIST.pdf

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this WT.