strange phenomenon I have noticed on this board....

[Guest as*r]

Just as some background I am not a regular user on here. I saw one sp back in the university days as a means of gaining a little bit of confidence and experience with women and have since focused allot of time on taking care of that area of my life. Having made a large effort to improve the social area of my life (meeting women etc) I have had no involvement in the hobby since that encounter. However I do like to check in here from time to time and there is something that I have noticed that I want to draw attention to:

There seems to be a number of elite members most likely older, long time hobbyists who seem to think that it is a worthwhile endeavour to act as some sort of guardian of ethics, often responding to people inquires or concerns with overly serious and authoritative comebacks. These seem to me like attempts for these users to exercise the sense of pride they get from getting thanked posts from sp.'s all done in the guise of sticking up for them. These are the users that I see often responding with "remember it is a recommendation board not a review board!" or are quick to point out technicalities when someone mentions the slightest annoyance.

A recent post I saw where a user displayed frustration over sp's not returning his casual hello messages, saw a number of these users I'm taking about all competing for who could write the most proper sounding defence of how "its a business, were customers not friends!"... As a matter of fact perhaps they are right, BUT its the fact that these people felt the need to post these statements that troubles me.

 

I am seeing here an unhealthy level of neediness and a desire for a pat on the back, perhaps all geared towards getting some sort of recognition from the ladies who these users see for their services. It really comes across as a sad need for approval when they deliberately snap at users just to get brownie points and it gives the forum a bad name when they are ranked as elite members.

[Phaedrus 209521]

So... the guys that happen to agree with SPs on an issue are being insincere, and are just posting stuff that they think will go down well? And they're doing it because they're needy?

 

Sheesh.

 

Is it too much to imagine that they might just be saying what they think? Is it completely implausible that they might genuinely agree with some of the ladies, irrespective of any perceived reward for that?

 

If you want to hang out in an environment where clients and SPs line up like opposing armies and then have fights over things... I'm sure you can find one. I believe boards like that exist. This isn't one of them.

 

Bear in mind that the people who have been around any forum for a long time will be a self-selected audience of the ones who like the way that forum operates. That applies anywhere. The ones who are looking for something else will tend to leave (or be kicked out) and will migrate to an environment that better suits their taste.

[Guest P**aq]

I don't think that members who take the time to comment on posts are "guardians of ethics", they are individuals with valued opinions, not conspirators striving to get a communal pat on the back (I have no clue what value a "thanks" gives one, other than a smile). If you look at some of the more heated posts, you will see that many opinions and ideas presented are thought-provoking, and from time to time, people consider those ideas & opinions and change their minds in a small way or at least view things from someone else's perspective. That's what makes this place interesting.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

A recent post I saw where a user displayed frustration over sp's not returning his casual hello messages, saw a number of these users I'm taking about all competing for who could write the most proper sounding defence of how "its a business, were customers not friends!"... As a matter of fact perhaps they are right, BUT its the fact that these people felt the need to post these statements that troubles me.

 

So it troubles you that people express their opinion! How about if people were troubled by you expressing your opinion! Will that return the compliment and make you feel better?

[Guest as*r]

Again I notice allot of these sorts of replies that I talked about from users in instances where no reply was even needed, as if a number of people go out of their way to throw words at people. I can't be the only one who is sensing some ego behind this.

The real point I am getting at is that, as someone who previously never considered any involvement in this hobby I have come to the conclusion that if used properly it can be a fun and healthy thing! However there is this dark side.... What I am referring becomes evident when people rush to post brownie point comments that are at times snubs or pompous "don't you know that????" types of remarks to some other members who may not be as experienced. Also the fact that they continue responses in a way where you can just see them basking in their line of "nominated posts" is embarrassing I think.

 

Imagine in a work place lunch room if anytime someone heard someone make a comment they felt was out of line, they jumped in arrogantly correcting the person. Now imagine if this person did this with regards to specific people acting like their little protector as if they can't stick up for themselves. This comes across as more than sucking up but almost cherishing in an unhealthy way. Like there is this underlying dynamic where some people are relying on SPs to give them such a level of fulfillment that they don't otherwise have so they have to lurk on forums and act as their guard dogs. I can't help but think of Micky Rourkes character in Sin City who becomes infatuated with the call girl after seeing her for one night and then looses his live avenging her.....

[MightyPen 67414]

As a matter of fact perhaps they are right, BUT its the fact that these people felt the need to post these statements that troubles me.

Hmm... I'm having a hard time with this sentence, too. Someone posts a question and people offer their answers, and you think those answers are probably right... but you're troubled that the people are taking the time to answer?

 

I am seeing here an unhealthy level of neediness and a desire for a pat on the back, perhaps all geared towards getting some sort of recognition from the ladies who these users see for their services.

That's just an interpretation, though. You're assigning motives based on supposition.

 

Isn't it possible that people are just honestly answering the question? We're on a board where posting words is the community's primary currency. Even if the answers are fundamentally the same, several matching replies suggest that the answer is a commonly held opinion. Plus, people tend to add their own nuances, touching on new facets and related ideas... and that's what keeps a conversation going.

 

If everyone backed off after any question gets a single reply, it'd be a pretty dull place.

[LeeRichards 177238]

[roamingguy 300292]

A recent post I saw where a user displayed frustration over sp's not returning his casual hello messages, saw a number of these users I'm taking about all competing for who could write the most proper sounding defence of how "its a business, were customers not friends!"... As a matter of fact perhaps they are right, BUT its the fact that these people felt the need to post these statements that troubles me.

 

 

So your troubled that CERB members read this users thread (which he wanted input by the way),and replied to his thread.

What troubles you the most, people responding to a thread where a response is requested. Or that the replies were pretty much civil, even if they didn't all agree

Are you now troubled that we replied to your thread

As for attributing motives of posters, what was your motive in posting, just to stir sh*t?

Playing devils advocate for a second, maybe no need to reply to your post, but more importantly then, there was no need for you to post at all to begin with

BTW as for the thanks, rep points/comments and nominations, they are nice but if they were removed from CERB and all accumulated rep points wiped from my profile, I still would be checking into CERB

That isn't the reason I joined CERB

 

RG

[CristyCurves 169032]

Thanks Asdr for your observation and opinion, you're entitled to it as is anyone else who comments here, as long as it's respectful:) We all see and read things in our own ways and those different ways should be appreciated and respected . I think everywhere, including here there is going to be some occasional sucking up, but that's to be expected when men and women entwine to discuss a myriad of topics and I'd agree that's it's not uncommon for some to show their thanks simply because they like the op not necessarily the opinion, kind of human nature. Laugh about it don't let it bother you:) The thing to remember when posting something here is, you're going to get those who'll side with an opinion and those that won't, those who are friends and stick together, those who are unbiased and those who are on the fence. If you see some you think that follow a trend of thanking for what you consider the wrong reasons perhaps it's best that you just ignore their posts. So long as they're aren't breaking any rules there is little else you can do. Follow those you feel are your style or to whom you feel respect, ignore those that bother you and you'll enjoy the site much more:) Thanks for the thread:)

[MightyPen 67414]

Imagine in a work place lunch room if anytime someone heard someone make a comment they felt was out of line, they jumped in arrogantly correcting the person.

Remember this is a public board; so nobody's eavesdropping on conversations when they post here, or being presumptuous in responding. Posts are how you participate and join in the community.

 

In your workplace lunchroom scenario I think it's much more like this:

 

FRUSTRATED GUY: (Aloud to room) "Dammit! I just tried calling my ex and she won't answer my calls! We just broke up last week, you'd think she'd be over it and could at least answer! I don't get exes, they're so frustrating. Argh! I just had to get that off my chest.

 

GUY 1: "Hey, you may want to give her a little more time. It's pretty soon after the breakup."

 

GUY 2: "Yeah, sometimes No Contact is just the way to go for a while dude. Helps people get over things and move on with their lives."

 

GIRL 1: "Yup. I've had a few rough breakups and I know I needed some space for quite a while. Sometimes I just can't talk to the guy again."

 

GUY 3: "Hey, Frustrated Guy, maybe just don't call he for a while and get out with some people? There's a new place opening up this weekend, maybe go there. It might be a good idea to get your mind off your ex and meet some new people... first new steps and all that."

 

GUY 4: "OH JEEzuz come off it you bunch of arrogant suckups! What's with you people and this ridiculous place!?"

 

GUY 1, GUY 2, GIRL 1, GUY 3: "Huh?"

 

Sorta like that.

[Guest as*r]

Alright I see that most people didn't agree with me and thats ok. Perhaps I was mistaken. As I said I find it to be perfectly fine for men to see escorts as a way of sexual enjoyment or as in the case of some, to help them with their sexual confidence (in which case they will hopefully take the necessary steps to get out there face their fears and meet some girls!).

 

I just thought that I was seeing symptoms of a different sort of thing where maybe a number of men are using this hobby to provide them with fulfillment they are not getting in their own lives either due to a number of reasons ranging from things within their control (unhappy marriage, poor skills with women, unhappy job situation) to imposed things like disability and illness (great sympathies here btw).

In these sorts of cases you might see men fawning over sp's and perhaps cherishing them due to the fact that they fill not only a physical but emotion, mental and spiritual void for them. You might also see these people take it upon themselves to feel the need to try to play a sort of policeman in the only area where this sorts of thing is discussed at large and where their comments are rewarded.

Perhaps you might also see the sort of thing where some of the women feed of this sort of thing due to the reward they feel from having this sort of worship, and on and on the cycle goes. both parties needy for validation in their own way.

 

Honestly this paints a bleak picture and if I really am making a mountain out of a mole hill and this sort of thing isn't prevalent at large in this area, please respond by telling me about evidence to the contrary. Im not being sarcastic here at all, as things like sexual freedom, and being ok with ones self are things that are really important to me. I think society at large guilts women for expressing sexuality and also shames men from feeling adequate to approach and meet women with the goal of creating sexual chemistry. Both are things that I would love to see change, but I really feel that some of the dynamics Im witnessing here reflect this sort of unhealthy perspective.

[cat 262460]

Darling asdr,

 

I do understand your perspective. What is said appears to be a line of answers that read as politically correct statements to any given comment that may be posted challenging or questioning situations that arise in this unique world we choose to live in. Truth be told, there was a time on CERB when topics were new. There were questions to be asked and answered; perspectives to be debated and enlightenment shared. It was time when the boards here in Canada were very Wild West and there was no safe place for providers to converse with hobbyists and CERB stepped up. This board provided a haven for the people that weren't looking for a flame war but genuinely wanted to connect; even if only online. For a while there was much to discuss and the archives will verify that no stone was left unturned. But the trolls continually tried to move in, both male and female alike and rules developed to keep the conversations respectful and from that we have the CERB of today.

 

Is there room for improvement to promote more meaningful discussions on CERB? Absolutely! As with all things, it's either growing or dying. What would you recommend as a change for the challenge that you see? I'm not asking this sarcastically, I genuinely am interested in your response...

 

cat

[Brad 49548]

ASDR, in your last post you asked for proof that when people make comments it's because they are saying what they truly believe and not just to earn "thanks" or are pretending to be a gentleman.

 

I believe that you ask this question sincerely, but doesn't it seem a bit of an odd one? Why is the burden of proof on me to prove to you that I say what I believe? And how something like that be proven or unproven? I think it's unfortunate that your outlook is that when a bunch of people--men and women--offer posts that promote respect and understanding, you assign ulterior and negative emotions. Is it truly so unrealistic to think that men and women can just simply on topics?

 

I admit I do sometimes start to skim a thread when someone asks a question or makes a point, and it seems like twelve people give the same answer in different words, but that doesn't mean that each of those twelve people weren't saying what they mean. It's also useful because it shows what the prevailing view is (or at least seems to be).

 

It's also the nature of forums. The whole reason people come hear is to express their opinion and read others, so it's a bit silly to be surprised or annoyed when they do so. :)

 

Consider this, is it not simply more likely that if you notice that most posters get along, support each other, promote an understanding and suggest guidelines that makes this business as happy to everyone as possible, etc that this is because the board has simply attracted those type of people over time?

 

(now to sit back and wait for the thanks to roll on in!!!...oh crap, did I type that! ;) )

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

FTN40 took the words out of my mouth, we consider this as a community.

As a community, we have many types of personalities, we have the shy, the loud, the funny, the leaders, followers, silly, serious... this is what a community built on. A chance to learn and grow, whether your learning form getting an earful (lol) or by having questions answered, being able to cry the blues and have support. WE ARE A COMMUNITY and we are on-line friends too.

For myself, if let's say Roamingguy or suddenly left our community, I will feel a void, and he has given me my fair share of " cyber spankings" lol...but he taught me from being like that. So for me, this on-line friendship has shaped some of my views that perhaps I never would have had otherwise.

 

So hopefully you are enjoying and learning from the thread you started. I say that honestly, because it is a great place with great people to get to know:)

ENJOY!

[Jabba 18389]

Just as some background I am not a regular user on here. I saw one sp back in the university days as a means of gaining a little bit of confidence and experience with women and have since focused allot of time on taking care of that area of my life. Having made a large effort to improve the social area of my life (meeting women etc) I have had no involvement in the hobby since that encounter. However I do like to check in here from time to time and there is something that I have noticed that I want to draw attention to:

There seems to be a number of elite members most likely older, long time hobbyists who seem to think that it is a worthwhile endeavour to act as some sort of guardian of ethics, often responding to people inquires or concerns with overly serious and authoritative comebacks. These seem to me like attempts for these users to exercise the sense of pride they get from getting thanked posts from sp.'s all done in the guise of sticking up for them. These are the users that I see often responding with "remember it is a recommendation board not a review board!" or are quick to point out technicalities when someone mentions the slightest annoyance.

A recent post I saw where a user displayed frustration over sp's not returning his casual hello messages, saw a number of these users I'm taking about all competing for who could write the most proper sounding defence of how "its a business, were customers not friends!"... As a matter of fact perhaps they are right, BUT its the fact that these people felt the need to post these statements that troubles me.

 

I am seeing here an unhealthy level of neediness and a desire for a pat on the back, perhaps all geared towards getting some sort of recognition from the ladies who these users see for their services. It really comes across as a sad need for approval when they deliberately snap at users just to get brownie points and it gives the forum a bad name when they are ranked as elite members.

 

Well, this is a forum. Opinions come in all shapes and sizes. Doesn't matter if it comes from long standing members (appearing to be the guardians of morality or ethics whatever that is...). You seem to have an authority thing going on. Are you Asperger?

 

I'm a long standing, umm, elite member, umm...anything else?... I'm also a slug. The "Brownie point" system is just a fun little cookie for frequent posters. IMO - No need to get outraged. Do you get outraged over frequent flyer points?

[craig101 3213]

QUOTE "I consider myself a "realist", but I am also a very positive person, and I am so sick of this "white knight", "rosy board" and other similar arguments. Like somehow it's dishonest or insincere to be a gentlemen. Just the concept of "white knight", which is exactly what your post is alluding to, bothers me. I find it a bit misogynistic, even. " QUOTE

 

It is definitely not insincere or dishonest to be a gentleman. Being respectful to woman is a strength not a weakness. We all have special women in our lives. A mother, daughter, sister, cousin, friend, etc... and if we want them to be respected we should do the same to other women.

Having said all that, there are some posters here who take it to the extreme. There are posters who will never disagree with a woman on here. I think some guys are afraid to debate with women for fear of being disrespectful. So instead of saying what they really think, they say what they think will be popular and what they think the lady wants to hear. I think this is a small minority of posters but in my opinion it does exist here.

[Guest as*r]

Well despite the number of personal jabs Ive gotten publicly on this thread, including insinuating that I have Aspergers, and suggesting that I am misogynistic... I think it should be known that I have received a number of pm's from long time members thanking me for starting the post and stating that I may have hit too close to home with those who rely on their sense of self worth from their popularity on the forum and from the attention they receive from SP's.

 

Despite the fact that people tried to reduce what Im saying to people just wanting to be gentlemen, or share their opinions, don't think that anyone with their head on straight does not see the darker side to this: people seeking validation and self worth in needy sad ways.

 

I think instead of dumping bully like criticisms on what I said you all should ask yourselves a few questions:

 

- am I enjoying this hobby just to relax or gain a bit of skills? Or am I depending on paying women for company in order to make me feel better about myself and give me fulfillment I don't otherwise have?

 

- Im I using the forum to have a community, and share relevant info, or am I depending on my reputation here to make me feel better about myself? Do I seek validation so badly that I shoot down other peoples remarks with defensive "know it all comments" on any thread I can find?

 

- (if your an sp) Am I confidant in just being who I am, and knowing that I provide a service that is relaxing and beneficial? Or Do I thrive off of the more needy clients attempts to appease me and fawn over me, and then justify their sad behaviour by calling it being a gentleman?

 

- Also if your an SP: what type of client would you honestly prefer: 1. Someone who has their life together and enjoys seeing you once in a while for a fun time or maybe to help improve their skills? Or 2. Someone who basically needs you so that they can leach value off of for themselves? Is it a good thing that some of these folks basically use services to manage their unhappy lives and basically look at you like a saviour for that? Is that unhealthy or being a "gentleman"....

 

So as someone asked, what do I suggest be done about this problem that many refuse to admit even exists? I think its a reflection of society and people trying to gain self worth through external artificial means. Just like at the sports game when someone wears the wrong jersey and another fan gets angry for not supporting "my team"... People need to latch onto something to medicate their unhappy lives.

The answer: be in touch with yourself, be happy, know your own values and stick to them irregardless of external influence, be OK with who you are and all your unique characteristics, pursue your goals, maybe even go out and approach and meet people and share yourself with them (whatever that may mean to you). I used to be incredibly introverted and basically lived according to societies standards as to what I should do with my life. Down this road leads all the typical shit: unfulfilled job, bad marriage, etc etc and it would only be normal to try to medicate that the stuff I was mentioning. Thats why I really feel that on this board I am seeing symptoms of serious personal problems that need to be addressed: neediness, unfullfillment, cherishing of people,....

 

Get a real life! I say that in the most well meaning way possible. It might take stepping out of your comfort zone or leaving that shitty job or marriage but you and everyone you deal with will be much better off!

 

In closing, for those reasons and the large denial and jabs I just received for pointing out what I feel is sad and unhealthy behaviour, I have decided that this community is not something that I will partake in any more.

[stand on guard 1186]

I think what may getting lost here is the original query regarding some responses to posts that you feel either belittle the poster or come to the defense of an SP or come with a sense of superiority. Agreed. These exist on this site and likely any other board where there are people of varying opinions. Yes, there are times when I am reading a post, I see a response that seems petty, as if the responding poster is the arbiter of CERB and feels the need to correct or admonish. This could happen anywhere. I would argue that 99 per cent of the posts are positive and informative and you have to outweigh this with the odd negative posting.

The other motive here is that you could be simply stirring the pot as evidenced by the number of responses to your original post and subsequent responses.

[scribbles 6031]

Asdr,

 

I'm mostly a lurker here. I find people's views and attitudes towards human sexuality interesting, so some of the topics that pop up here interest me on an intellectual level. Also, some of these chicks are hella hot. ;) (if that's construed as sucking up, it would more accurately be seen as levity.)

 

You raise an interesting point, but awkwardly. I don't think that the motives and motivation for consumers of sexual services have been adequately explored. More often, the research focused on what could lead these "broken women" to do what they do. I think understanding the impulse to purchase sex, and how purchasing sex changes the consumer, is more valuable.

Just some rambling thoughts, but likely the circumstance or trait that leads a dude to pay for sex is the same or similar motivation for why they would comment prolifically and/or superficially on this forum. As you point out, some men are here because of self-esteem or confidence issues. It would seem pretty easy to see that if self-esteem and confidence leads them to pay for sex, they are also the things driving the same guy to post (mostly anonymously) in a forum where they gain validation for their opinion, particularly from the women they admire. Is that wrong? Is that sycophantic? I'm not sure.

 

But, you also seem to project a lot of anger or disdain for the people you're speaking of, while putting the disclaimer on it that "you mean well." If men are posting here because of real issues they have with their self-confidence and self-esteem, or if that's what drives them to pay for companionship, the solution isn't as simple as "just get a real life." In fact, confrontation of that sort is usually part of the problem in the first place.

 

Just my opinion.

[Guest as*r]

Well if there's any anger it comes from the fact that these guys I'm talking about often snub junior members in an almost hurtful way. In fact a number if years ago I joined here and was really concerned about le attention when seeing an sp. allot of these guys basically jumped on me for being paranoid, and that my fear would make it a bad experience for both parties. One, maybe an sp then made a remark in a stabbing way that I should find other ways to get laid. Well that's what I did!

But here's those same guys, first to correct people and first to jump in when an sp makes a simple comment with " excellent response ms x!!'" Or " wow ms x really hit the nail on the head with her post".

Give me a break. Serious personal issues yes, but it's pathetic and when your rude to other guys you have to be pointed out on it.

 

Plus gotta admit it's pretty funny when I started this thread and who were the first to respond to it!

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Not sure why this has become SUCH an hot topic. It is what is is. A place for people to share thoughts. If you aren't open to what others may have to say then don't post (I learned that while back). Breaking crayons and storming out of the sandbox is something that should have been resolved before adulthood. If you aren't willing to at least partially absorb what others may have to contribute then you will never have the ability to grow as a person. Should not all interaction be seen as a learning experience? The great wonder is that we can never quit learning, no matter our age, growing and becoming better people. Closing ones mind adds obstacles that are not necessary. I believe that I have the capacity to learn until the day I die and my views right one will change as I go. Believe me, I am no goodie goodie trying to impress, I am just at an age now where I realize that I don't know it all and never will!

 

PS I wasn't against the original post and would have replied to it had the discussion not veered of into this discussion.

[Jabba 18389]

Well despite the number of personal jabs Ive gotten publicly on this thread, including insinuating that I have Aspergers, and suggesting that I am misogynistic... I think it should be known that I have received a number of pm's from long time members thanking me for starting the post and stating that I may have hit too close to home with those who rely on their sense of self worth from their popularity on the forum and from the attention they receive from SP's.

 

...

 

I never said you were misogynistic :biggrin:....but now that you raise the question - are you?

[scribbles 6031]

Well, Asdr, what can I say? While I haven't read every single reply here, I find it interesting that they are almost universally well thought out, considerate of the original post, and without pettiness and anger. That seems to mostly discredit what you're saying, *except* that I have seen some of the childishness you are talking about. What's most interesting is that you're the only one here, up to this point, perpetuating it in this thread, which makes me wonder if this was all just a platform you wanted to make for yourself to get a little vengeance against those you now feel superior to.

 

No community is perfect, and every community has its assholes. Maybe there's a skewed ratio online because we see each other across a screen, through text, and that makes the smallest of us bold. But perpetuating the cycle doesn't make you insightful or introspective, it makes you one of them. Probably better if we all just learn to live and let live.

[will1977 480]

I am more of a lurker here and don't post much, as you can tell by my post count. I usually will see if there is a thread already out there for what information I seek. If I feel I can add something or it really hits home with me I will post, but if there is an opinion already closely resembling mine, rather than post I will just give a "thank you" to it, similar to the "like"button on facebook I feel.

 

Anyhow, you mentioned in your last post that when you started posting people were rude to you, so being a reader I went through I looked at your post history to see if they were rude. I found all their responses to your questions or concerns really well worded and quite nice. I'm not sure if maybe you had a different handle at the time.

 

I would just say if there are some that bother you then ignore their posts and move on, it's similar to other social media, people are always going to annoy you for some reason or another and their views won't always be in line with your thinking.

[Frank7 3939]

 

anyone with their head on straight does not see the darker side to this: people seeking validation and self worth in needy sad ways.

 

I think instead of dumping bully like criticisms on what I said you all should ask yourselves a few questions:

 

- am I enjoying this hobby just to relax or gain a bit of skills? Or am I depending on paying women for company in order to make me feel better about myself and give me fulfillment I don't otherwise have?

 

- Im I using the forum to have a community, and share relevant info, or am I depending on my reputation here to make me feel better about myself? Do I seek validation so badly that I shoot down other peoples remarks with defensive "know it all comments" on any thread I can find?

 

- (if your an sp) Am I confidant in just being who I am, and knowing that I provide a service that is relaxing and beneficial? Or Do I thrive off of the more needy clients attempts to appease me and fawn over me, and then justify their sad behaviour by calling it being a gentleman?

 

- Also if your an SP: what type of client would you honestly prefer: 1. Someone who has their life together and enjoys seeing you once in a while for a fun time or maybe to help improve their skills? Or 2. Someone who basically needs you so that they can leach value off of for themselves? Is it a good thing that some of these folks basically use services to manage their unhappy lives and basically look at you like a saviour for that? Is that unhealthy or being a "gentleman"....

 

So as someone asked, what do I suggest be done about this problem that many refuse to admit even exists? I think its a reflection of society and people trying to gain self worth through external artificial means. Just like at the sports game when someone wears the wrong jersey and another fan gets angry for not supporting "my team"... People need to latch onto something to medicate their unhappy lives.

The answer: be in touch with yourself, be happy, know your own values and stick to them irregardless of external influence, be OK with who you are and all your unique characteristics, pursue your goals, maybe even go out and approach and meet people and share yourself with them (whatever that may mean to you). I used to be incredibly introverted and basically lived according to societies standards as to what I should do with my life. Down this road leads all the typical shit: unfulfilled job, bad marriage, etc etc and it would only be normal to try to medicate that the stuff I was mentioning. Thats why I really feel that on this board I am seeing symptoms of serious personal problems that need to be addressed: neediness, unfullfillment, cherishing of people,....

 

Get a real life! I say that in the most well meaning way possible. It might take stepping out of your comfort zone or leaving that shitty job or marriage but you and everyone you deal with will be much better off!

 

 

Is there any better reason to seek companionship from an SP then because there's a void, you lack confidence or skill? Those are the ones that need it the most!

 

Just "getting a life" or your answer to know yourself, be happy etc isn't easy and isn't always possible. It's something that take a lot of times and isn't only in your hand. Sometimes you night help to at least survive/hang in there until the problem is cared for. A good parallele would be asking someone depressive to just stop taking pills and be happy. To one day solve your problems and be happy, you might need those pills for stability and motivation on the way up.

 

I'm sure there is some that have a problem, but i don't think trying to shame them or saying they are a sad bunch is the right attitude.

 

I just thought that I was seeing symptoms of a different sort of thing where maybe a number of men are using this hobby to provide them with fulfillment they are not getting in their own lives either due to a number of reasons ranging from things within their control (unhappy marriage, poor skills with women, unhappy job situation) to imposed things like disability and illness (great sympathies here btw).

 

You do realize that poor skills with women is also often caused my minor (or major) disabilities? It's also a lot of work to "get" skills with women, especially if you want to be true to yourself and be loved for what you are.

 

Getting confidence takes success, even if it's "artificial" ones. You can't expect to just go outside and try to seduce women, rejection after rejection and while having absolutly no affection and sexual live. Especialy if you're not just aiming to "score" and actually want a serious relation with someone you could love.