Undercutting Local Prices

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

The market will adjust itself. Meanwhile, there are going to be some casualties, both sex workers and clients!

[Carrie Moon 68826]

We are independent contractors. Unless you are with an agency or a pimp.

 

Other independent contractors have similar issues with undercutting prices..

 

Ask anyone who works in a trade. Be it painting houses, paving driveways, building a deck...

 

Even holistic practitioners, massage therapists, hair dressers... I'm quite sure there's no union or industry minimum for those and several other independent contractor jobs.

 

The proposition of an industry standard is the pipe dream.. very unrealistic in my opinion.

 

One of the best parts of my job is that I'm completely my own boss....

 

I do not want anyone dictating to me that I can't work for my own set price that I decide I am choosing.

 

While I have chosen a minimum time that I will book for a client of 30 min.. I have in the past done 15 min appts. I even have had one regular who after booking his initial time for my min came back to see me several times.. but since he was a minimum wage worker and literally was in and out in one song I didn't have the heart to charge him more than $50..

 

In a set price model would I have to charge him more now? or do this behind the back of whomever is telling me the price I can charge? THAT right there takes away my freedom to be my own boss. No thanks!

[Mumbassa 110]

Ottawa's economy is unique compared to other Canadian cities. It's propped up by the fed gov and the pairing back of . 13,000 individual salaries has a huge effect on the local economy. The tech market for jobs has never recovered from a decade ago. Hence the market is really in flux. Ottawa will never hit a Detroit type of low but people have less money to spend. This is having a big impact on the service sector and that's why this thread exists.

[canuckhooker 19203]

I am actually shocked that this thread has been allowed to stay open so long. It is certainly against the spirit of this board. This isn't a reasoned debate it is akin to a bunch of nosy neighbours peeking their heads over a fence and then gossiping about the state of your neighbours yard, complaining about what they are doing in the privacy of their own yard etc.

 

No one has the right to dictate to any provider what they think their rates should be. That is up to the individual provider. They decide what services they offer and at what rate.

 

Face it, this is a business in what is essentially a free-market economy and subject to all the pressures that every other business faces. Despite what the service is, you are still selling a service. You are the provider and you need customers to buy your service. The market decides if the service you are selling is what the consumer wants, and is value for the money.

 

You can charge $400, minimum 2 hour appointment, CBJ, no greek and be happy with that decision. You believe there is a market for that service. It should not matter to you that another provider is doing BBBJ in 15 minute sessions for $80. They feel they too have a market for that service. If either of them don't have clients for their service then maybe they have to look at their business model and adjust. That is how business works in our society.

 

We have had these debates before about rates, BBBJ vs CBJ, sliding rate scales based on service etc. This is not the place for it. It is just collusion in disguise. Setting up a "hooker marketing board" like we do with milk, and eggs etc is not an option, and is a pretty absurd idea.

 

I will say it once again, Nobody has the right to dictate what another can charge for their service. Mind your own business and stop blaming others for your lack of knowledge on the current business climate. If people don't value your service the same way you do, then maybe you should look at alternate types of employment, and not try and stifle your competition.

[stand on guard 1186]

I too am surprised that the momentum from this thread has not died down. The bottom line is that like Carrie says, she likes the freedom to work when she pleases, to charge as she pleases and to make a business decision, hers and hers alone. That is why people in all walks of life, where they are able, chose to go into business for themselves.

 

In terms of pricing and undercutting the market, this discussion/forum should in my opinion be a private conversation between SPs only.

 

At the end of the day, reputation, reviews and level of service will determine the amount of business an SP will do.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I am actually shocked that this thread has been allowed to stay open so long. It is certainly against the spirit of this board. This isn't a reasoned debate.

Why isn't it? discussing anything that could benefit us is certainly reasonable. Discussions should never be discouraged that are speaking to what could benefit us and different view points should always be appreciated and welcomed.

 

I will say it once again, Nobody has the right to dictate what another can charge for their service. Mind your own business and stop blaming others for your lack of knowledge on the current business climate. If people don't value your service the same way you do, then maybe you should look at alternate types of employment, and not try and stifle your competition.

But yet you seem to feel you have the right to dictate what can be said here:) I'm curious who is it that you are referring to as having lack of knowledge on the current business model? With all due respect :)as a gentleman and one who if I am to assume correctly, has no ties to this business other than hiring or speaking to providers, how can you speak to what is best for us or to what our business model is, what we should charge, how and why?:)

I am a provider who could care less about what others charge as I am one who does not need this to support myself or anyone else, so for me there is no competition, I can survive with 1 or 100 or no clients. But I do find the idea of a having a minimum price set a great idea and one that would benefit everyone. I would think all the gents chiming in would be the only ones who could possibly have anything to loose if one was set, after all variations in rates benefit you the client not the providers. But that's my skewed view;)

I can speak to this as I have been in other service fields as an owner and a worker and even though there were variables in rates the differences were never more than 5-20$ so a minimum must have been set with possibly exceptions for seasonal sales or promotions.

As providers we all should want one another to prosper and not be taken advantage of by anyone, misinformed or undervalued. To protect one another and if we are concerned and coming together concerning the changes in the laws why not do the same for our rates. After all how is making more or not going below a certain rate a bad thing for any provider?

My last comment would be to those who think that a client is dedicated enough to stick with a girl no matter her rate-seriously? A client is a client and those who have their favorites and stick to one are the few and far between, the exceptions rather than the rule. Most men shop around and rates are a motivation for most not a girls looks, attitude, or services. If that weren't the case then why in all the years that I've been in and out of this business in all its facets has the first and foremost question asked by a client calling is "so what are your rates" lol!

In the end probably nothing will change but planting a seed/a thought perhaps may cause some to think and sometimes with thought comes change.

Cat said it best though, as usual:)

[whiteman 14028]

I agree it is improbably but not impossible. I think a rate that varied region to region to accommodate area pricing set by local providers would be a good start...

Then you run into anti-trust issues, this would become collusion, i.e. hindering competition. No different than gas stations setting prices exactly the same as each other, all across town.

 

I know you hate being compared to stores and gas stations, etc., but it's absolutely the real world rearing its ugly head in here. It really makes no difference if you're selling a product or a service, it's subject to the same supply/demand and commerce laws as everything else. That's why the GST tax is called a "Goods and Services Tax", the government makes no distinction between goods or services, it's all just commerce to it.

[scribbles 6031]

I wasn't going to say anything. I probably shouldn't, as I am not a provider, and as such have already been shouted down as having no relevance in this discussion. But, after having that particular slant on marginalization thrown out in so many posts, my baser nature overcame my better judgment. So, here goes.

 

I have never sold a sexual service to another. I don't know what that is like, outside of academic study in the area and many, many conversations and friendships I have had with workers in different segments of the market. I think that the experience of that exchange is different for each person, in part due to the fact that sex has different meaning and significance for everyone. To say that one person's experience is prototypical of all others is myopic and dangerous, and inherently feeds marginalization of those who fall on either side of that model within the spectrum of experiences.

 

To say that clients can be categorized neatly into market segments is also myopic, and fairly insulting. It's an oversimplification. Men have different motivations for their consumption of sexual services, and they can be motivated to choose service providers and services provided differently in different circumstances. Sometimes it's price, sometimes availability, level of risk aversion, satisfaction of a particular type or fetish, etc. Some days the client might be motivated by a need for an intimate dinner and bedroom date, a sophisticated experience, and will be willing to pay $500 for it. Other days, they might be motivated to have a massage from that hot little brunette with the tight ass. Yet others, maybe they need a physical release, but can't spare $200 for it. Same client, different motivation.

Talking about "types" of clients is insultingly classist towards clients, just as it is insultingly elitist towards providers.

 

*Nobody* should be allowed to dictate prices for services to a provider. A client is rude to haggle, so how is it any less rude for another provider to dictate? The simple economics of it is that a provider "selling themselves short" at $100 an hour, a claim I find spurious without reference, probably won't be able to maintain that price for the same level of service as someone charging double that. This is because of the physical operating costs of the business, the increased volume needed to ensure a reasonable margin, and the physical toll the additional volume would take on the provider. The services, quality and level of service you provide will *always* determine the price you can charge, and the market will decide whether it can tolerate that price.

 

But let's not, for a moment, forget that there are many relevant voices that need to be heard in this discussion from *both* sides of the transaction, and different market segments. The self-sainted few patronizingly dictating terms to all others, and casting out whomever they feel doesn't have a right to speak... that sounds pretty revolting.

[canuckhooker 19203]

But yet you seem to feel you have the right to dictate what can be said here:) I'm curious who is it that you are referring to as having lack of knowledge on the current business model? With all due respect :)as a gentleman and one who if I am to assume correctly, has no ties to this business other than hiring or speaking to providers, how can you speak to what is best for us or to what our business model is, what we should charge, how and why?:)

I am a provider who could care less about what others charge as I am one who does not need this to support myself or anyone else, so for me there is no competition, I can survive with 1 or 100 or no clients. But I do find the idea of a having a minimum price set a great idea and one that would benefit everyone. I would think all the gents chiming in would be the only ones who could possibly have anything to loose if one was set, after all variations in rates benefit you the client not the providers. But that's my skewed view;)

I can speak to this as I have been in other service fields as an owner and a worker and even though there were variables in rates the differences were never more than 5-20$ so a minimum must have been set with possibly exceptions for seasonal sales or promotions.

As providers we all should want one another to prosper and not be taken advantage of by anyone, misinformed or undervalued. To protect one another and if we are concerned and coming together concerning the changes in the laws why not do the same for our rates. After all how is making more or not going below a certain rate a bad thing for any provider?

My last comment would be to those who think that a client is dedicated enough to stick with a girl no matter her rate-seriously? A client is a client and those who have their favorites and stick to one are the few and far between, the exceptions rather than the rule. Most men shop around and rates are a motivation for most not a girls looks, attitude, or services. If that weren't the case then why in all the years that I've been in and out of this business in all its facets has the first and foremost question asked by a client calling is "so what are your rates" lol!

In the end probably nothing will change but planting a seed/a thought perhaps may cause some to think and sometimes with thought comes change.

Cat said it best though, as usual:)

 

First off this thread should have been closed because it started with an SP complaining about another provider's rates. That is a taboo subject on this board. It has carried on with several others jumping on the bandwagon bitching, making some unfounded generalizations about other providers, and clients.

 

Secondly, as a gentleman I should have no opinion? At the very root, I believe I am part of the industry and can have an opinion, for without clients there is no industry. But to answer your question, not that it is any of your business, I am employed peripherally in a segment of the industry we discuss on this board. And no I am not a pimp, nor directly manage providers in their provision of service.

 

Finally, I didn't dictate to anyone. I stated my clear opinion that nobody has the right to dictate to any other provider what service they should provide, and what rate they should charge. If telling someone not to dictate is me dictating, then so be it.

 

On who I am referring to about knowledge of the business model, I am referring to nobody in particular and everyone in general. If any one opens a business, offers a product and sets prices for that product (or service) and gets no customers, then maybe they have to look at their business model and adjust. That is common sense.

 

As for the rest I am against, collusion, peer-pressure, name-calling, blackmailing and any other way that someone tries to fix prices, by dictating to others. Or, people who use that means to try and eliminate the competition. To suggest that it happens in other industries is just wrong. It is the market that lets businesses know what price they can sell at.

 

Fixing prices is actually illegal in this country, and businesses who collude to do that could find themselves in legal hot water.

 

Here is what the Government competition bureaus says on the subject.:

 

The provisions 45, 46 and 48 of the Competition Act prohibit agreements between two or more persons to prevent or unduly lessen competition or to unreasonably enhance the price of a product. Agreements between competitors to fix prices, to allocate customers or geographic markets, or to restrict production of a product by setting quotas among competitors or other means are considered to be "hard-core" cartel activities, with no socially redeeming features. Anti-competitive agreements harm both consumers and businesses, and enforcing the conspiracy provisions is an important priority for the Bureau.

[Peachka 4334]

Ottawa's economy is unique compared to other Canadian cities. It's propped up by the fed gov and the pairing back of . 13,000 individual salaries has a huge effect on the local economy. The tech market for jobs has never recovered from a decade ago. Hence the market is really in flux. Ottawa will never hit a Detroit type of low but people have less money to spend. This is having a big impact on the service sector and that's why this thread exists.

 

This is a good point!

 

As a business owner in Ottawa, I have seen a decline in business for my company, my clients and my suppliers. Those working in the public sector are worried for their jobs. The federal gov't has changed the way they do business and procurement. The spin off effect has been devastating for some. Ottawa is no longer 'Fat Cat' city.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

This thread raises a valid point for discussion and as long as no provider is specifically named, it would be unreasonable, in my view, to impose restrictions on either side of the debate.

[Ice4fun 78407]

But yet you seem to feel you have the right to dictate what can be said here:) I'm curious who is it that you are referring to as having lack of knowledge on the current business model? With all due respect :)as a gentleman and one who if I am to assume correctly, has no ties to this business other than hiring or speaking to providers, how can you speak to what is best for us or to what our business model is, what we should charge, how and why?:)

I am a provider who could care less about what others charge as I am one who does not need this to support myself or anyone else, so for me there is no competition, I can survive with 1 or 100 or no clients. But I do find the idea of a having a minimum price set a great idea and one that would benefit everyone. I would think all the gents chiming in would be the only ones who could possibly have anything to loose if one was set, after all variations in rates benefit you the client not the providers. But that's my skewed view;)

I can speak to this as I have been in other service fields as an owner and a worker and even though there were variables in rates the differences were never more than 5-20$ so a minimum must have been set with possibly exceptions for seasonal sales or promotions.

As providers we all should want one another to prosper and not be taken advantage of by anyone, misinformed or undervalued. To protect one another and if we are concerned and coming together concerning the changes in the laws why not do the same for our rates. After all how is making more or not going below a certain rate a bad thing for any provider?

My last comment would be to those who think that a client is dedicated enough to stick with a girl no matter her rate-seriously? A client is a client and those who have their favorites and stick to one are the few and far between, the exceptions rather than the rule. Most men shop around and rates are a motivation for most not a girls looks, attitude, or services. If that weren't the case then why in all the years that I've been in and out of this business in all its facets has the first and foremost question asked by a client calling is "so what are your rates" lol!

In the end probably nothing will change but planting a seed/a thought perhaps may cause some to think and sometimes with thought comes change.

Cat said it best though, as usual:)

 

Christy I think I agree with everything you have said except your comments about price being the dominant factor... i would agree that price is asked ... lol all of us have to know if we can afford the service but once I know it is not outside my price range I really don't shop around based on cost. most of the ladies I have seen I have seen repeatedly and it has not really crossed my mind to look for something cheaper.

 

Just my opinion

[CristyCurves 169032]

QUOTE=canuckhooker;589392]First off this thread should have been closed because it started with an SP complaining about another provider's rates. That is a taboo subject on this board. It has carried on with several others jumping on the bandwagon bitching, making some unfounded generalizations about other providers, and clients.

 

2nd off:) I think Mod is the only one who gets to decide what can and cannot be said, what threads will remain open and closed. 3rd off thank you for being so civil and friendly;)

Secondly, as a gentleman I should have no opinion? At the very root, I believe I am part of the industry and can have an opinion, for without clients there is no industry. But to answer your question, not that it is any of your business, I am employed peripherally in a segment of the industry we discuss on this board. And no I am not a pimp, nor directly manage providers in their provision of service.

If you are a gentleman, I don't know you after all:) you most certainly can have an opinion. I believe I stated in my response that all opinions should be accepted and appreciated in all discussions .But whether or not anyone is going to take a non-providers opinion seriously in this discussion is another matter:) If you are involved in the business perhaps your opinion will warrant more credence and you are right what you do for a living isn't my business and I didn't ask you. I made a statement and you responded to it as if I was asking you a question;) But I thank you for your candor;)Perhaps I should ask you how to better provide services since you are so informed:)

Finally, I didn't dictate to anyone. I stated my clear opinion that nobody has the right to dictate to any other provider what service they should provide, and what rate they should charge. If telling someone not to dictate is me dictating, then so be it.

 

The op stated her clear opinion, as has everyone, but in a friendly way.The whole tone of your post was condescending, bitter, preachy and yes you were dictating. It most certainly wasn't friendly which is supposed to be the tone of this board. We should be able to complain, perhaps in private. But this became a discussion and one worth while imo and in others obviously.

 

On who I am referring to about knowledge of the business model, I am referring to nobody in particular and everyone in general. If any one opens a business, offers a product and sets prices for that product (or service) and gets no customers, then maybe they have to look at their business model and adjust. That is common sense.

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood this whole thread but from what I've read no one is wanting fixed prices but a price which we shouldn't go below, I think that is a difference. This would still allow anyone to set their own prices. Isn't that like any business you have a variety of employees and levels from minimum wage to management wages and above.

As for the rest I am against, collusion, peer-pressure, name-calling, blackmailing and any other way that someone tries to fix prices, by dictating to others. Or, people who use that means to try and eliminate the competition. To suggest that it happens in other industries is just wrong. It is the market that lets businesses know what price they can sell at.

 

Ahh I think we are all against name calling, black mailing. etc. and it isn't just the market that allows business to set prices, they set their prices based on many factors, costs involved in product purchase, staff wages, rent, etc, etc. It is also wrong to tell anyone what they can and can't do. Why is it always a man that says the word competition. I have never looked at or thought of another woman in this business as competition and I'm sure I'm not the only one. We are all equals offering similar services and we share many of the same clients, imo that makes us comrades not competitors.. I am about helping, not competing and again I'm sure so are many other ladies. I hate when someone portrays us as all trying to one up each other.

 

Fixing prices is actually illegal in this country, and businesses who collude to do that could find themselves in legal hot water.

 

Again, I don't think wanting a minimum set price is fixing prices. If we all decided that none of us should go below 150 an hour lets say, then many could supply services at 150/200/225/350 and so on. That is only a benefit to all providers, still a lot of variety and nothing fixed:) How is that different than having a minimum wage?

Here is what the Government competition bureaus says on the subject.:

 

 

Thanks for that but I had already read up on it and collusion before I posted the first time:) Happy Easter:)

The provisions 45, 46 and 48 of the Competition Act prohibit agreements between two or more persons to prevent or unduly lessen competition or to unreasonably enhance the price of a product. Agreements between competitors to fix prices, to allocate customers or geographic markets, or to restrict production of a product by setting quotas among competitors or other means are considered to be "hard-core" cartel activities, with no socially redeeming features. Anti-competitive agreements harm both consumers and businesses, and enforcing the conspiracy provisions is an important priority for the Bureau.

[MightyPen 67414]

I've been reading this thread closely and, while the discussion has been frank, sometimes blunt, and there are strong and conflicting opinions, it's been pretty civil. It's been valuable to me to read these different yet honest views of real, live women who do sex work for a living and each know what they're talking about.

 

Although I can see how this might make some people (especially consumers) uncomfortable, I disagree that the discussion is un-CERB-y. A thread whose premise was "Sally X is charging way too little! Let's confront her!" would be bad. A general thread about "hey, how are prices set? How should they be set?" strikes me as smack-bang on topic for the board -- provided it's civil. I think as long as there are informed and respectful viewpoints to share, those inclined to contribute something meaningful should be allowed to do so.

 

For my part: I don't know anything about the experience of being a sex worker so I only have vague concepts to go on. My uninformed feeling is that "enforcement" of prices is bad in principle for a bunch of reasons. But... what about a hypothetical voluntary sex workers' association that reaches out to SPs, invites them to work with their fellow providers, and keeps newbies informed about their options in the business? One that just invites everyone to cooperate to help maximize revenue from a very human and intimate service? I'd be cool with that. It would have problems and failings of its own, but it would have a lot of human merit, too.

 

Open, free markets are sometimes efficient... but they're never, ever wise or compassionate, and some of that is necessary too.

[canuckhooker 19203]

It boils down to one simple principle. I, and many others believe that a provider should be able to set their own price, and when they do then they should not be bullied or pressured by others to change that price.

 

You do not believe that. You believe that others should decide what a provider charges. I am sorry but even from the provider's comments on this thread, there is a huge difference in opinion on that amongst that community. Who is going to set these prices? Is there going to have to be a "hookers union" or professional association? Will it vary from province to province? Will we allow happy hour pricing?

 

Are you really proposing that we set a mimimum wage for prostitution? Given the many varieties and types of sex work how would that work? A certain price for MA's because they only give manual release? X Dollars for Oral, Y Dollars for Greek etc etc? No extras in the Champagne room, because as Chris Rock says, There is no sex in the champagne room?

 

Sorry for getting a bit absurd here, but the whole idea to me is ludicrous, not to say also a little totalitarian.

[MightyPen 67414]

Is there going to have to be a "hookers union" or professional association?

That would be a very, very good idea. Not to set or enforce prices; but to provide support to every single provider, so that they can be informed and market-savvy and each set the highest price that works for them.

[craig101 3213]

Even if in this dreamworld these ideas were agreed upon who would enforce them? Not that a price would ever be agreed on.

Every one here is a consumer to some degree. We all buy things. I'm going to assume that as consumers we are all against collusion. You can't just cherry pick in this situation alone because you might be on the other side of the fence.

 

Collusion is bad all the time except for those instances when I'm the seller. lol

[Ice4fun 78407]

I may have missed the point of this thread but I kinda thought that no one was saying there should be a forced set price that everyone had to follow just sort of suggesting that it was probably in the interest of all SP'S that rates remain high and that people don't just start under cutting each other.

 

I don't think any set rate would ever work and there is way to many reasons why people set the rates they do to expect uniformity... i fully agree that each SP has to set their own rate but reminding oneself that the rate you set may affect others is not necessarily a bad thing either.

 

Just my opinion.

[WhiteKnight 1413]

Open, free markets are sometimes efficient... but they're never, ever wise or compassionate, and some of that is necessary too.

 

I was going to write something about compassion and this industry, above and beyond free market theory, and then MigthyPen said it more eloquently than I could ever do. I, too, believe compassion should be a part of this industry and our topics of discussion.

[cometman 35115]

Every lady has to decide how many clients she wants to see per day/ week/ month........what her comfort level is. If she doesn't get enough business, she has to discern- why not? If she gets too many bookings........why? She'll sort it out to her comfort level and it will depend on service, chemistry, clientele, financial need, etc. Clients will look at price point and chemistry- depending on the client/provider vibes. These are all moving targets. So many intangibles and it's impossible to pigeon hole them and make a rational analysis about the experience unless it's an extreme one way or another. It's a really unique lifestyle here and there is no Coles Notes on it. Ladies......if I'm happy, you'll know it and if I am not, you probably won't hear from me again. However, if you don't hear from me, that doesn't mean I wasn't happy. See how fricking unique this lifestyle is? Only YOU will know if you're doing it right. If you're meeting the people you enjoy meeting and making the living you hope to, you're doing it right.

[2bigalow2 2938]

Lets look at the Acer Elite Best Buy $659, Canada Computer refurbished $599 , Wallmart $499 all with 8g's of memory Wallmart is undercutting all theses businesses.

Everyone has the right to set their own prices. Whether you a store, business or service,

that's my 2 cents again.

[mangotropicana 442]

the problem with the minimum is that it would be set real low. too high or even average price and the less popular SPs (maybe because of a non-preferred bodytype or age or options etc) would be getting less than what they would get if they were to set their own prices to reflect actual market value.

 

as for protecting new, clueless SPs, that's a problem of not having the information, which is why sites like this can be a good source of info. it would be like starting a business without knowing what to do - not very prudent. if you set up some body that would act as an information provider, it would be hard to access every newbie out there due to the nature of the business

[Guest c**io**m7]

I am no expert so I will be careful with what I say. My limited experience in this hobby/industry has shown me that the $100/hr providers often have fallen in one of three categories (not always, but often):

 

1) New provider brought to this business by an immediate and seemingly impossible to recover financial situation.

 

2) A need to get her next "fix".

 

3) Being exploited by a pimp/manager out to make a quick buck off the back of someone he/she thinks they " own".

 

A minimum price business structure will not help these providers. Support, education about the industry, a seasoned veteran mentor, addiction treatment and LE are just a few things ladies in these situations would need.

 

Sex workers need a highly public and visible support system...run by and governed by sex workers who care about their competition as humans and who will work together to maximize each other's success.

 

Like I said, not all $100/hr workers fall into these categories but I have come to know the inside of this industry well over the years and I have met far too many "budget" SPs who do.

 

Just one man's unfortunate observation.

[Liv Waters 52361]

There's alot of garbage being layered onto certain sex workers in the industry. There's a dichotomy between the image of the put together worker, self-assured, autonomous, and in control...no mental health or self-esteem issues...acting as her own woman, strong as hell. And, then there's the worker with no business skills, not knowing her worth, with low self-esteem, willing to do God knows what with her body....drugged out, controlled by a pimp, and needing to be managed for her own good. Or, left to her own devices while the rest of "us" supposedly figure out what is 'truly' of benefit to our industry overall.

 

And, then, there's statements being made about who has seen more of the 'exploited', 'messed-up', unfortunate 'ignorant' types', and how that allows one to make potentially more insightful judgement calls about the need to minimum pricing and regulatory measures....and the right to construct prostitute typologies I might add.

 

The dichotomy (between the healthy, competent and knowing sex worker, and the screwed up, pimped druggie with no economic sense) and the prostitute typologizing are what I want to bite into here. And, I'll use personal narrative to illustrate some of these aspects, but keeping in mind the broader connections between our lives...that all of the pieces do not have to match up perfectly to provide insight....that personal stories can be applied in such a manner as to not blanket or overgeneralize a discussion, or over-personalize a debate to the point where discussion becomes impossible. These are the things I have in mind as I share.

 

I started in this industry at 17 years old. The choices, as I experienced them, were tough and few and I was highly motivated to get out of poverty and an abusive living environment, which was obviously distressing. Within a year I found a decent agency manager to work for. I had very little business knowledge to start with: what to charge?, what was a fair cut to give to a manager?, what services to provide?, what services was I comfortable with providing?....how might my financial needs and motivations, my life immediate circumstances, trump some of these considerations over others? ...and, believe me, sometimes I have made choices that have left me feeling like shit....sometimes the choices didn't feel like fair choices....sometimes, I was layering on self-judgement that didn't need to be there about the choices...hmmm, I wonder where all of that judgement comes from?

 

My earlier years in the industry allowed me to observe my manager and all of the tasks she carried out to run a business, many of which I was too busy to want to do myself, some of which I lacked the social and economic capital and personal organization to do, and others aspects I just needed time to think on if ever I wanted to become an independent (screening clients etc.).

 

I experienced the work as exhausting, frustrating and stigmatizing at times, but also as stimulating and fun (always meeting new people, sharing stories, learning about the psychology of sex), and flexible in terms of how portable the work is, and being able to make larger amounts of money in shorter periods of time.

 

In a relatively small Northern Ontario community, I gave a third of every hourly fee I made to my manager. At the time, the going rate for a bustling and established escort agency was $150 an hour. After I paid my agency fee, and my taxi fare (it was all outcall based), and based on the example of a one hour date, my take away without any other expenses considered (condoms, clothing, grooming etc.) was about $80. This is considerably less than I command now as someone who works independently, in another region, and a decade later. But, I was more than ok with those terms...accepted them and they worked just fine for me, and were highly preferable relative to the other work that was available to me at the time. Thinking back to that situation, if I could have finagled low overhead and the right incall setup, I could have charged $80 an hour and made out just as well or better (think no travel time to appointments), but goodness knows then I would have been labeled by others in the industry as a 'low end' ignoramus. Interesting.

 

Long story short, sex work arose as a highly constrained AND also an ideal and flexible economic option for me. It took time, opportunities to connect with other workers, and reading related literature (not easy to find at the time) for me to begin to make sense of things....to carve out various options for myself, to politicize what it means to be a sex worker, and to challenge my own internalized assumptions about 'whores', while also challenging dominant social ideas about sex workers, both demonizing and infantilizing.

 

The learning curve has been steep and complex. And, my life options, my formal education, my business savvy, my self-awareness, and my sexual development have evolved. Having made a foray back into the industry several months ago (after a long pause away, but still engaging in related activism all the while), I find myself in a different phase as a sexual labourer. I work for myself, set my own rates, and screen my own clients, and, over time, I've had more opportunities to become a part of the sex working community, to fight for our rights, and to benefit from the rich relationships it holds

 

I also take time to remember the whole journey, the teenager that was me, and I have had moments where I've been struck by her ingenuity. Whatever I lacked in business or economic smarts, I made up for in volumes with the savvy that can only come with street smarts...off the cuff, quick thinking, and tremendous resourcefulness.

 

Few people would take the time to fascinate over the narrative of socially and economically marginalized woman if she is working for pennies at the local Tim Horton's....with a Manager on her all the time like a fire breathing dragon...thankless customers, running her ass off, barely covering the rent, leaving little or no time for her to pursue, or dream about other life options. And, few would make so many qualifying remarks if she struggled in her sense of self, maybe even struggling with depression, or an intimate partner who abuses her physically, financially. Why? Because we gloss over that kind of marginalization: cuz she's working for the man, towing the line of normalcy....her purported "dysfunction" is a familiar, benign kind.

 

[And, yes, I am gesturing at the role of internalized whore stigma in this thread masquerading as disinterested concern and professional rhetoric over industry standards.]

 

So, why is it acceptable to make all kinds of qualifying remarks about sex workers who may charge less than others?....who may be following a business model that makes sense for them?...who may be working for a manager who takes a cut, maybe even an unfair cut of their earnings?...who may struggle in his or her sense of self. What about the role of decrim?...about upholding the legal rights of sex workers to switch managers or leave the industry without fear of retribution (providing legal recourse and a climate of social support for him/her to do so)....just one of a number of examples where we can make changes without fixating on the pathology of individual choice, or lack thereof.

 

What about we make space for the understanding that there will always be sex workers who will never fit into the mould of the happy, healthy hooker, and to count these members of our community in as equally insightful and valuable. It's not too hard, considering that some of the biggest leaders in the sex workers rights movement are people who have been street involved, who are or who have been drug users, and, yes, trauma survivors. A number of these people, all women, are some of my closest friends and confidants. We do not all identity with the same struggles, with the same privileges and oppressions, or industry experiences, but we see each other as equals and colleagues nonetheless.

 

It's also been mentioned that there are workers who really aren't wanting to do the work but have few other options. Let's fight for those increased options....while also recognizing that there are plenty of folks in the mainstream workforce who hate their shitty jobs, don't know how else they will pay their bills, and can't seem to get their foot in the door what with all of the nepotism out there. Let's advocate for their increased options too eh?

 

When we dichotomize and qualify sex worker identity in the manner I've seen happen in this thread, there is tremendous erasure that occurs; erasure of the parts of ourselves, our private moments which are deemed unsavory, shameful, desperate; erasure of the ongoing vulnerabilities we experience in the industry(, because regardless of what we charge or where we work, we all experience a level of vulnerability); and erasure of the contributions of fellow sex workers who have and continue to fight for our rights.

 

I love being a sex worker, and I see the work as skilled and honorable work (as my vocation), yet, sometimes, I still am left feeling like shit...sometimes I feel confused. I carry all of my life history with me, beautiful and ugly. But, hey, don't we all? Isn't this ok? What happens when, for some of us, it is not ok? ...what then is the role of totalizing statements about certain people's lives, their work?....does it not function as a mechanism for distancing?...for asserting a sense of personal entitlement and relative legitimacy? what happens when we resemble a stereotype?....what happens when we face the pain of resembling a stereotype? ...what happens to us when the person who resembles the stereotypes is held in our minds eye as a respected colleague?.

 

Hmmm, what then?