new prostitution bill

[tomfool 220]

thats how i see it.. it does say that no one under the age of 18 should reasonably be expected to be there, too? like this site, it has an age check, same as my website, so no one under 18 should reasonably be expected to be there.

I sure hope that means im ok anyway.. geez

 

Unfortunately, I think that clause needs to be put in context with the rest of the bill. It seems this is part of their approach to not prosecute providers but everyone else involved.

 

You will not be prosecuted but anyone that takes money for, or otherwise benefits from your ad will be prosecuted. Also the government has the right to take your add down.

[drlove 37204]

...voice an opinion that the government's current proposal is anti-human rights, anti-freedom of choice. You don't have to say why you have the opinion, just express it.

 

I'm hoping that the Canadian public in general will wake up and get on board as well - not even with this issue per se, but the fact that this Conservative government is slowly chipping away at the premise of what makes Canada a great democratic country. Perhaps in a general sense then, voters will not stand for actions from the Cons that fundamentally take away our freedoms and infringe upon our civil liberties. Now, in regard to the prostitution issue, the one thing we have in our favour at the moment is that the media are railing against the bill, and in the process offering then public at large an insight as to what's really going on here...

[TheRiddlerMan 872]

 

Sex workers are largely hidden too, and also frequently despised.

 

 

Of course they are, they're the real victims of this law. It's a bizarre hybrid, a combination of reactionary conservatism which considers them to be fallen women and progressives who believe that they are products of misogyny and unable to decide for themselves. It's cynical and sad, especially when we all know some of the writers of this bill were checking their watches to see when they could get out to see their favorite provider. I'm just being realistic about how it will really go, when the dust settles and the law is in place.

[Dori 759]

My reading , for what it is worth, says that Savannahs is correct. An independent is free to advertise. Agencies it seems would not.

 

It would be a crime for anyone to communicate in any way with the independent about the advertisement but the advertisement it seems will be legal.

 

Well if you take how the media is interpreting the wording its like this:

 

"Criminalize the advertising of sexual services in print or online, with offenders facing a maximum prison term of five years. "

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/p...-sex-in-public

 

 

That means thats how their legal reps have interpreted the bill, and thats how they will want the public to see it.

 

Since the wording the Conservatives are using, like "perverts" and "scum", is portraying how they expect to treat the issue going forward, so they will definitely put pressure on the police forces to act in the way they are implying and they will set an example probably with quite a few (publicly) to make their message clear.

 

So I definitely will expect for print and online advertising venues to close the option to advertise such services (whether you are independent or not) for simple fear of potential legal issues (in the same manner that Kijiji and Craigslist ended that option).

 

 

The real downside is that it can also lead to some very shady areas such as disgruntled customers, or competitors to inform and snitch to the police of online/print advertising to get that individual in trouble. Couple that, with the new "anti-spam" laws coming into effect July 1st, and you have trouble if anyone claims you sent an unsolicited communication to them.

[Ice4fun 78407]

Like everything.... our first reactions to change will always be to focus on the things that we don't like but I am pretty sure that as time passes the implications from this terrible piece of law making will not be as bad on the majority of us who in my opinion represent the high end of the industry. It will unfortunately be devastating to the street workers who ironically it is being sold as a savior for. We at the high end will adjust and continue... will it hurt yes but we will be ok.

 

Those who wish to look into the rear view mirror and suggest that the challenging of the law was in hindsight bad should stop and think about that. This is a social justice issue... and it like most other similar issues will be won by brave individuals standing up and demanding their rights.... in the process there will be setbacks... but the fight must go on and we should be very careful we don't start to think that our short term interests are more important than the big picture.

 

I applaud those individuals who have the guts to stand up and fight.. especially when I hide here in the shadows in will to do more than write a post. It was not a mistake or a miscalculation it was a major first battle so let's stop shooting at our own fighter.

 

Just my opinion.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I am not convinced that we will have to loose this site or any other site.

 

First, if in we all advertise our time and not sexual services, then how could any site be in trouble for advertising sexual services? There would need to be a system that does not allow certain words ( such as BP now). You can not put GFE and other terms on BP, they have it so a flag comes up and it removes the offensive term.

 

Yes CL did loose their escort category, but then here in NB we just moved them to rant and raves...but with the new bill sites will have to change escort category to companionship category.

 

Enquiries will change, as a client you will not want to criminate yourself by asking " do you offer BBBJ?" we ladies will say, " I do not charge money for sex services" . In the NB section I posted something on this enquiring procedure.

[drlove 37204]

Like everything.... our first reactions to change will always be to focus on the things that we don't like but I am pretty sure that as time passes the implications from this terrible piece of law making will not be as bad on the majority of us who in my opinion represent the high end of the industry. It will unfortunately be devastating to the street workers who ironically it is being sold as a savior for. We at the high end will adjust and continue... will it hurt yes but we will be ok.

 

Those who wish to look into the rear view mirror and suggest that the challenging of the law was in hindsight bad should stop and think about that. This is a social justice issue... and it like most other similar issues will be won by brave individuals standing up and demanding their rights.... in the process there will be setbacks... but the fight must go on and we should be very careful we don't start to think that our shirt term interests are more important than the big picture.

 

I applaud those individuals who have the guts to stand up and fight.. especially when I hide here in the shadows in will to do more than write a post. It was not a mistake or a miscalculation it was a major first battle so let's stop shooting at our own fighter.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Ok.. fair enough. You've made some well argued points, and upon reflection I agree with you. My only question is, if and when the new law is eventually challenged and likely struck down, what happens then? Will the government then have no choice but to decriminalize the industry and adopt fair laws, or will they seek convolute things even further by enacting another set of misguided laws, or will they simply decide to criminalize the lot, and hope it sticks?

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Ok.. fair enough. You've made some well argued points, and upon reflection I agree with you. My only question is, if and when the new law is eventually challenged and likely struck down, what happens then? Will the government then have no choice but to decriminalize the industry and adopt fair laws, or will they seek convolute things even further by enacting another set of misguided laws, or will they simply decide to criminalize the lot, and hope it sticks?

 

First we need to wait, and see if the BILL does become LAW, then yes I suppose people will come together with an action plan. Meanwhile, IF it does become law, and we unite into an action plan, I would think the next step will be to decimalize, but then again they could create another weird law to take it's place. Keep in mind, it took a decade to change the currant law, so it may take years before anything changes again after this one.

So IF it does become law, then as I suggested earlier, we simply stop advertising sexual services, enquiries will be blind until you meet face to face.

[Bianca Jaguar 39183]

... It's cynical and sad, especially when we all know some of the writers of this bill were checking their watches to see when they could get out to see their favorite provider...

 

That was exactly my thought...How many of these goverment members have already seen a provider...and still do...

BJ

[Ice4fun 78407]

Ok.. fair enough. You've made some well argued points, and upon reflection I agree with you. My only question is, if and when the new law is eventually challenged and likely struck down, what happens then? Will the government then have no choice but to decriminalize the industry and adopt fair laws, or will they seek convolute things even further by enacting another set of misguided laws, or will they simply decide to criminalize the lot, and hope it sticks?

 

This will be a process of social and cultural change... if the polls are correct general Canadians are headed in the right direction but i don't hold out much hope that Mr. Harper and his right wing followers will join us very quickly. If we look at this in comparison to the abortion fight (and there are lots of reasons why it is different and in many ways a harder fight) we need to move Canada to the point where fighting this battle is no longer politically advantageous to the conservatives. In the case of abortion the conservatives still do not agree with the right if a woman to choose but they know it us a political loser to actually do anything about it (except undermine woman's groups that support the right to choose )... unfortunately we are a long way from that on this issue so the battle goes on....

 

Just my opinion

[Ice4fun 78407]

That was exactly my thought...How many of these goverment members have already seen a provider...and still do...

BJ

 

I know how you feel but with so much if this industry built on Trust and Confidential what do you do....

 

Maybe all the ladies seeing Conservatives should just give them a call and remind them if the conflict between their public political position and their private behavior.

[drlove 37204]

That was exactly my thought...How many of these goverment members have already seen a provider...and still do...

BJ

 

Well if that's the case, then they are putting THEMSELVES at risk by voting for Mackay's bill!

[50 Shades Raven 31380]

In reading even through just the first few pages of this, I am shocked.

 

Forgive me for being an outsider of this country, but just because we offer a service that is obviously being asked for, does that make me exploited? Hell no!

 

Who in hell in government thinks it's right to tell other people what they can and can't do with their bodies, let alone their time!

 

In the States, it's hard to get around the laws, THIS is worse!

 

I believe in protecting those that are forced into this, but there are those of us that do this strictly because we enjoy the interaction between two people.

 

If I go into a bar and a guy buys me dinner and drinks, we go back to his/my place and we end up having sex, does that mean I'm going to be subject to a criminal act because he put out money for the dinner and drinks?

Man, this could be horrendous on so many levels!

 

To me, this is just a case for a government to tell its citizens what they can and can't do.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a companion. It's my 'employment', I'm a self employed companion, you pay me for my time with you and if we happen to have some fun along the way, so be it!

 

Does this mean that if a 'personal assistant' has sex with her boss, he and/or she can have criminal charges laid upon them, due to the fact that she's being paid by him?

 

Holy crap man, this is the 21st century, why don't they just tax us all and get it over with!

[drlove 37204]

In reading even through just the first few pages of this, I am shocked.

 

Forgive me for being an outsider of this country, but just because we offer a service that is obviously being asked for, does that make me exploited? Hell no!

 

Who in hell in government thinks it's right to tell other people what they can and can't do with their bodies, let alone their time!

 

In the States, it's hard to get around the laws, THIS is worse!

 

I believe in protecting those that are forced into this, but there are those of us that do this strictly because we enjoy the interaction between two people.

 

If I go into a bar and a guy buys me dinner and drinks, we go back to his/my place and we end up having sex, does that mean I'm going to be subject to a criminal act because he put out money for the dinner and drinks?

Man, this could be horrendous on so many levels!

 

To me, this is just a case for a government to tell its citizens what they can and can't do.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a companion. It's my 'employment', I'm a self employed companion, you pay me for my time with you and if we happen to have some fun along the way, so be it!

 

Does this mean that if a 'personal assistant' has sex with her boss, he and/or she can have criminal charges laid upon them, due to the fact that she's being paid by him?

 

Holy crap man, this is the 21st century, why don't they just tax us all and get it over with!

 

Exactly! I don't think the bill as it stands now will be passed. I feel there will be some amendments, although nothing really in our favour. The justice system in Canada is odd... First, an unconstitutional set of laws are challenged, then the Supreme Court strikes them down. Next the government comes up with a set of even more idiotic laws that fly in the face of the SCC ruling. Here's the kicker: The SCC cannot intervene until someone who has standing challenges the new laws yet again, and the issue winds itself through the courts until it reaches them. The entire process may take years...

[fortunateone 156618]

I am not convinced that we will have to loose this site or any other site.

 

First, if in we all advertise our time and not sexual services, then how could any site be in trouble for advertising sexual services? There would need to be a system that does not allow certain words ( such as BP now). You can not put GFE and other terms on BP, they have it so a flag comes up and it removes the offensive term.

 

Yes CL did loose their escort category, but then here in NB we just moved them to rant and raves...but with the new bill sites will have to change escort category to companionship category.

 

Enquiries will change, as a client you will not want to criminate yourself by asking " do you offer BBBJ?" we ladies will say, " I do not charge money for sex services" . In the NB section I posted something on this enquiring procedure.

 

 

Why rants & raves, or casual encounters even, why haven't they moved into Therapuetic. Really curious, because TS seems so obvious for body rubs, and escort ads lol (as in yes, in Vancouver and surrounding areas, hundreds of ads daily in TS) it's a service, it's a business.

 

Additional Comments:

Exactly! I don't think the bill as it stands now will be passed. I feel there will be some amendments, although nothing really in our favour. The justice system in Canada is odd... First, an unconstitutional set of laws are challenged, then the Supreme Court strikes them down. Next the government comes up with a set of even more idiotic laws that fly in the face of the SCC ruling. Here's the kicker: The SCC cannot intervene until someone who has standing challenges the new laws yet again, and the issue winds itself through the courts until it reaches them. The entire process may take years...

 

 

And that is definitely an issue. I think i posted probably in this thread regarding public opinion (based on reading thousands of comment posts in a few articles that came out (against this bill), and it has been suggested that the govt plans for this bill to fail. Not just a little bit of a failure, but a huge failure. At which time they can say to their abolitionist and NIMBY supporters how hard they tried to do the right thing, but those evil pot smoking harlot loving Liberals/NDP/Bloq perverts resisted the chance to help the victims, so it failed. Oh well, see you next election, where we will be sure to remind you about those other political party perverts who want 15 year old forced sex work labour on every schoolyard corner!

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Hahaha, I know right! I have no clue at all why we choose rants and raves, but there it is! lol...Check it out...but seems to work for them, has been ever since the lost the category.

[drlove 37204]

And that is definitely an issue. I think i posted probably in this thread regarding public opinion (based on reading thousands of comment posts in a few articles that came out (against this bill), and it has been suggested that the govt plans for this bill to fail. Not just a little bit of a failure, but a huge failure. At which time they can say to their abolitionist and NIMBY supporters how hard they tried to do the right thing, but those evil pot smoking harlot loving Liberals/NDP/Bloq perverts resisted the chance to help the victims, so it failed. Oh well, see you next election, where we will be sure to remind you about those other political party perverts who want 15 year old forced sex work labour on every schoolyard corner!

 

Well, yes and no... if the bill fails, they still have to come up with SOMETHING to take its place, otherwise they run the risk of the industry being defacto decriminalized, which the Cons do not want.

[splaton008 1568]

I for one will immediately end my hobbying if this becomes law. Too much BS and risk involved. Hopefully there will be changes to the proposed legislation.

 

Additional Comments:

I for one will immediately end my hobbying if this becomes law. Too much BS and risk involved. Hopefully there will be changes to the proposed legislation.

[TheRiddlerMan 872]

 

 

And that is definitely an issue. I think i posted probably in this thread regarding public opinion (based on reading thousands of comment posts in a few articles that came out (against this bill), and it has been suggested that the govt plans for this bill to fail. Not just a little bit of a failure, but a huge failure. At which time they can say to their abolitionist and NIMBY supporters how hard they tried to do the right thing, but those evil pot smoking harlot loving Liberals/NDP/Bloq perverts resisted the chance to help the victims, so it failed. Oh well, see you next election, where we will be sure to remind you about those other political party perverts who want 15 year old forced sex work labour on every schoolyard corner!

 

They have a majority. In a Parliamentary democracy, when the government has a majority our only recourse is the courts or a wave of negative publicity. Look at the election act bill, where the Conservatives made it harder for first generation immigrants, aboriginals, the homeless, etc to vote...despite universal opposition and massive negative publicity, they only backed down slightly in the end. If they're willing to effectively disenfranchise the most vulnerable sections of the population, do you really think they'll hesitate here?

 

We should expect the bill to pass as is. It'll be up to the courts to strike it down.

 

Additional Comments:

You will not be prosecuted but it is still illegal and no one is allowed to take money from you for advertisement. Also the government can force such advertisements to be taken down.

 

That's the thing, someone has to host the ads. Anyone willing to run such a site will probably have to take a page from the Pirate Bay and find a country that hosts anything, no questions asked.

 

Additional Comments:

One thing that I find particularly nasty relates to this story:

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/05/24/420000_in_police_database_never_convicted_analysis.html

 

Basically, any interaction with the police for any reason puts you into a database. Mental health issues, false charges, even just talking to a cop could flag you. The next time you try to cross into the US, or renew your government security clearance or even rent an apartment they'll pull the previous incident. Anyone who works in a bureaucracy can tell you that these databases just grow and grow, and no one cares if it makes any sense for you to be in there. A criminal background check will pick it up, and it's game over.

[WriteOn 3250]

I for one will immediately end my hobbying if this becomes law. Too much BS and risk involved. Hopefully there will be changes to the proposed legislation.

 

 

I don't believe that for a second, as many times as people say prostitution is legal in Canada and of course technically it is, there are laws that are being broke on a daily basis by hobbyists, et al.

[Touch 57501]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-what-canadas/article19018150/?cmpid=rss1&google_editors_picks=true

[Ice4fun 78407]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-what-canadas/article19018150/?cmpid=rss1&google_editors_picks=true

 

Excellent video....

[the fox 100]

I for one will immediately end my hobbying if this becomes law. Too much BS and risk involved. Hopefully there will be changes to the proposed legislation.

 

Additional Comments:

I for one will immediately end my hobbying if this becomes law. Too much BS and risk involved. Hopefully there will be changes to the proposed legislation.

 

Me too. Way too risky to get caught and branded a pervert, women exploiter, endangering children and most of all to get put on the sex offenders list.

[DwayneR 2105]

Here is what I think will happen IMHO .

 

The law will pass as is.

Indy SPs will have a harder time advertising but after a month or two ways will be found. Sites like cerb will come back as text only blog sites.

Postings will have fewer details.

 

Pooners will be harder to find. But they will still be around in fewer numbers as will the SPs .

There will be less communication between SPs and Pooners which will create problems.

 

The law we be tested by the courts but this will take a long time.

 

I have never used their services but The worse part of this law

is that the Ladies that work the street will be

Be driven further underground and in much greater danger.

At some point there will be a public outcry to change this new law to better protect them.

[nntsci 11076]

>At some point there will be a public outcry to change this new law to better protect them.

 

Sadly, I don't think a public outcry will occur. Few people in the general public know or even care about the victims... they buy into the exploitation myth that is being promoted by the conservatives. I doubt any party is going to run on a de-criminalize and regulate the sex trade.

 

The law will likely get struck down for violating constitution and there will be another round of this non-sense. Unfortunately there has to be some brave women and men who will sacrifice much in order to fight to over turn a bad law.