LadyMichelle 730 Report post Posted November 23, 2014 New law links http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/protect/p1.html http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-new-prostitution-laws-everything-you-need-to-know/article19610318/?service=mobile This affects drivers and anyone who is there to protect sp. May affect sp working together for safety... There is a lot of conterdiction with the new law. I think we do need to figure out how thing are going to work now. Maybe cerb can have a client based recomination board... Additional Comments: New law links http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/protect/p1.html http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-new-prostitution-laws-everything-you-need-to-know/article19610318/?service=mobile This affects drivers and anyone who is there to protect sp. May affect sp working together for safety... There is a lot of conterdiction with the new law. I think we do need to figure out how thing are going to work now. Maybe cerb can have a client based recomination board... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest N***he**Ont**y Report post Posted November 24, 2014 If a person provides services to all the general public he or she is exempt from those sections.EG limo or taxi drivers as they provide these services to the general public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meaghan McLeod 179664 Report post Posted November 24, 2014 December 6 is also the same date for white ribbon day - national day of rememberence and action on violence against women. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Remembrance_and_Action_on_Violence_Against_Women Quite fitting that they would roll out this barbaric law on this tragic anniversary. Thank you to Genevieu for pointing this out. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted November 25, 2014 If a person provides services to all the general public he or she is exempt from those sections.EG limo or taxi drivers as they provide these services to the general public. Yes, and provided that they do not charge escorts higher fees than they would charge any other type of client. Goes for a variety of services any escort may require. I assume that includes escort licenses in Edmonton. At over 1500, escorts are charged 10 x the average cost of a biz license than any other biz. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torrid 130 Report post Posted November 28, 2014 Yes, and provided that they do not charge escorts higher fees than they would charge any other type of client. Goes for a variety of services any escort may require. I assume that includes escort licenses in Edmonton. At over 1500, escorts are charged 10 x the average cost of a biz license than any other biz. One would certainly hope that would be the case, however we just won't see a change in those fees. They have been changing those exorbitant fees for a long time, I don't see them stopping anytime soon, unfortunately. ~tori 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest *ly*vi**9 Report post Posted November 30, 2014 I'm also wondering what na12,-18 are supposed to mean. They really aren't helping in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midnite-Energies 110563 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 No confusion whatsoever. The new law was written as it was to try and force people out of this industry. It says you can sell your own services and you can advertise your own services but anyone who allows you to advertise in their space (website, newspaper, online forum) etc. is a criminal as that is illegal. Just as you can provide certain things however no one can purchase said things legally. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 No confusion whatsoever. The new law was written as it was to try and force people out of this industry. It says you can sell your own services and you can advertise your own services but anyone who allows you to advertise in their space (website, newspaper, online forum) etc. is a criminal as that is illegal. And this is why Mod's coming down so hard on everyone for putting anything that even slightly looks like a sexual service in an ad here: it's so the board doesn't get hauled through the courts. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 KC, this should also eliminate agencies or mps from being able to continue to post menus of sexual services on behalf of their employees. Most agencies and mps post the ads and have websites for the employees (i call them employees for the purpose of explanation). Currently, even tho it is actually illegal, most agencies and mps have relaxed their ads to include these lists. It has always been illegal for them to 'procure' or offer the sexual services of others, anyway, this bill is kind of simply reinforcing that with additional (albeit unnecessary) legislation. The current criminal code should have been sufficient, all that was needed was enforce it. shows that in general tho, LE doesn't really care about this aspect of the law of procuring, given that working for an agency or mp tends to be safer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kcsunshine01 173 Report post Posted December 3, 2014 Well I'm here to say that it can be confusing to many and it's better to clarify for peace of mind hence any confusion should get somebody into trouble. The second paragraph was pretty straight forward, however, the wording in the first one gave me pause. Better to be safe than sorry and ask questions if you aren't totally sure. Thanks for the input. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrrnice2 157005 Report post Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) On December 6th, 1989 the events of the Ecole Polytechnique massacre in Montreal unfolded. It is indeed ironic and sad that on the 25th anniversary of the day that women were killed for choosing a career in engineering that the Canadian government is bringing Bill C-36 into law. It has not gone unnoticed by me that at least some sex workers have dubbed this law as the Pickton Model- a model that will be setting some women up for violence. I have been pretty well absent from Cerb for the last six weeks due primarily to illness as I hardly felt up to even looking in. Now that I am able to do so, and following a six week hiatus, it is quite noticeable to me the change in tone regarding this law and its potential impact. As is probably quite understandable the discussion has become very much on a personal note, where individuals are looking primarily at themselves and no longer at the overall picture. Despite everything that I wrote several months ago, where I was undoubtedly looked at as one of the paranoid and as a naysayer, I do tend to agree that most of us here with exercise of due caution and care are probably not going to be impacted too much. I do however have WAY less trust in police and law enforcement than what seems to be the consensus. I began this post with the Ecole Polytechnique paragraph because what I have found that has totally disappeared from this discussion thread in the past six weeks are concerns for the women and other sex workers who work the streets and those who are forced by their individual dire circumstances to take chances and who are probably not working this trade as their first choice of employment. If and when this law is challenged in the Supreme Court it will probably only be after a long period of time during which many of these women will be abused, injured and killed. It will be those statistics and that data that will overturn this law. Yes, reality for each of us on an individual personal level has kicked in, as it should, but let us not forget the many who are not as fortunate as we may be. Financial donations and support to groups such as POWER, PIVOT, Maggies and others will be critical in helping to protect all sex workers and to assist in a challenge that will ultimately happen well down the road. On MY personal level and very luckily for me, I LOVE and adore cuddling and social interaction. As always this is just my own unique view on whats going on, be it right or wrong. Edited December 3, 2014 by mrrnice2 Spelling Error 12 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamilaBR 100 Report post Posted December 4, 2014 My question here is pretty simple: Will you girls stop working because of the new law? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted December 4, 2014 My question here is pretty simple: Will you girls stop working because of the new law? Perhaps a few will, temporarily, but I don't expect to see many go. Bear in mind that anyone who does stop working will have to either replace the income or live without it, which is a good reason to carry on for anyone who doesn't have anything else lined up right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrrnice2 157005 Report post Posted December 4, 2014 Amazing letter from the new Toronto City Council to Premier Wynn. Wouldn't it be nice! Kudos to Toronto! It appears as if that link has been closed since I posted it early this morning. The link on Twitter posted by POWER last night is still working. I'm trying to post it as an image but no success so far. If anyone else can get it and make it available, it really is an amazing letter! Another well written article. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamilaBR 100 Report post Posted December 4, 2014 Perhaps a few will, temporarily, but I don't expect to see many go. Bear in mind that anyone who does stop working will have to either replace the income or live without it, which is a good reason to carry on for anyone who doesn't have anything else lined up right now. I think I will be one of the girls that won't stop. The reason why I do this is to pay down school and I still have some debt. What scares me though is the fear of getting arrested in my own house - where I work from. But God help me! Additional Comments: Amazing letter from the new Toronto City Council to Premier Wynn. Wouldn't it be nice! Kudos to Toronto! It appears as if that link has been closed since I posted it early this morning. The link on Twitter posted by POWER last night is still working. I'm trying to post it as an image but no success so far. If anyone else can get it and make it available, it really is an amazing letter! Another well written article. I think its this one here? AMAZING letter for sure. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrrnice2 157005 Report post Posted December 5, 2014 There. Finally found the letter that I mentioned yesterday from Toronto City Council (in the form of a JPG image) to Premier Wynn. It will be presented tomorrow on the National Day to Stop Violence Against Women. Thank you to the people who care about the safety of women! And 14 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted December 5, 2014 . What scares me though is the fear of getting arrested in my own house - where I work from. I think you would benefit from a very thorough read of all the posts, and click all the links, in this thread. To be here, on the 5th, and this be a concern of any escort right now is disturbing. It means that the way the bill is being presented is causing a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation, imo. it is also drowning out the fact the effects of the SCC ruling will also be noticed this month. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 6, 2014 CamillaBR: I recently posted my (lawyer's) view on the subject of LE and private locations in a thread on MA's at http://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=201043, but I'll re-post to this thread and add a bit. It may help alleviate your fears. LE has no legal right to enter the premises of an MA's/business' private location. It is private property and they would need to have a search warrant issued by a Superior Court Judge to enter on site, and even then LE is not allowed to enter by force. They typically wait for the owner of the property to arrive. This idea of busting down doors is only on tv. Neither the MA/business nor the gentleman would agree to open the door while someone is knocking during a session and would certainly not discuss what took place behind closed doors. So, just finish the session and then leave. Even if LE intercepts the gentleman or the MA/business operator on their way out, LE will have no evidence that any illegal activity has taken place. By the way, if you are ever intercepted you have no obligation to speak to the police other than to identify yourself. Just don't say a word and walk away. This whole idea of LE asking you to go down to the station for questioning (i.e. interrogation) is just on tv. Just say no. If they try to stop you, just ask if you're under arrest. If the answer is no, you are legally allowed to just walk away and not say a word. If you are under arrest, immediately say only 4 words: ''I want a lawyer'' and shut up. No charges will stick and you'll be released that same day. And with regards to spa's, this is one of the reasons I like CMJ Ottawa so much (and also because of Melodie and friends :icon_biggrin:). It's a private member's club, so it's not a public place. Their front door is locked at all times and members have to buzz in on camera and identify themselves as a member with an appointment to get in. Perhaps other spas will follow suit and become private clubs. The same would go for a MA/business private location. It seems to me that the best scenario for an indy MA/business is to have a place where you have to buzz or call to come up. That way, LE would have to identify themselves and be let in (which won't happen). Even if they get in the building some other way, and come knocking at the door, they can't just enter without permission of the owner or someone who is occupying the premises. I think its best not to answer the knock at the door during a session no matter what, but even if one did without thinking, the police can't just walk in unless they have a warrant or are invited. If they enter without a warrant, any evidence gathered from the illegal search and anything that derives from it will be deemed inadmissible in Court because it would be considered the fruit of the poisonous tree. Either way, private locations are the way to go... and nothing illegal ever goes on there.. Relaxe, Y2K will be over in a few more hours. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamilaBR 100 Report post Posted December 6, 2014 fortunateone & WealthyCowboy: Yes, the Bill really really confused me and I thank both of you. What I was scared about was having a LE booking my time instead of a real client. But from what I've read, seems that it won't be the case. Thank you again :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drlove 37204 Report post Posted December 6, 2014 It's always darkest before the dawn... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicolette Vaughn 294340 Report post Posted December 7, 2014 Surprisingly, there was not a lot of media coverage surrounding this new law and 90% of the clients I see have no idea what the hell is going on so that says something right there. Not a peep as far as I know from the Ottawa Sun and Ottawa Citizen the last time I check online news stories. Toronto and Vancouver Police Departments have said they are making this new law a low priority to enforce. And Now Magazine in Toronto refuses to comply with the new law regarding third party ad banning. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/now-magazine-plans-to-defy-ad-ban-in-new-prostitution-bill-1.2863044 Lets carry on... 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted December 7, 2014 Surprisingly, there was not a lot of media coverage surrounding this new law and 90% of the clients I see have no idea what the hell is going on so that says something right there. I don't think this is surprising. The same would apply to almost all legislation. Most people just don't pay attention to it. Which is why we get the politicians that we do... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 7, 2014 CamillaBR: I understand your concerns about LE posing as a client. That being said, if they are the ones proposing something illegal to you it would be a criminal offence on their part under the new law. Perhaps the old approach of letting the client tell you what they want may assist. Also, screening methods or asking for references may help reduced those risks. There may also be an argument of entrapment and unlawful methods of gathering evidence in such cases. Entering a private property and using surveillance or recording devices may contravene a warrant's provisions. If it is just the officer's word against yours, IMO it should be simple to establish reasonable doubt and not be held liable for an offence. Just saying. I am curious if private businesses have had LE pose as a client and what the end result was. I would think that no charges would be laid, but if so I can't imagine it wouldn't be dealt with by a simple plea bargain with very light sanctions. Does anyone have an experience to share on point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meaghan McLeod 179664 Report post Posted December 7, 2014 I highly doubt Le would pose as a client to arrest an escort or ma. It's not illegal for us to provide our services. However, posing as a ma or escort that I believe will happen. Remember, if they do, they will try to get the client to attach a specific act with a dollar value. So be leary of an escort/MA who insists on knowing what the client wants for the dollar. Time and companionship. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lep*******1**7 Report post Posted December 7, 2014 I must agree with WC and Meaghen. First of all, LE have limited resources and will probably focus on situations of human trafficking and other high risk areas. Secondly, getting a warrant to enter a private dwelling is time consuming. Third, filming activities at a private dwelling would require specific court permission, which is not at all easy to obtain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
