Clients, what will you do if the Nordic model becomes law

[roamingguy 300292]

 

Yes I think the cops will have bigger issues than catching "pervs" but to not think they will set up stings or entrapment of people, is living in a bubble. The police will have the ability to do what they want and the power... Thanks to this bill.

 

 

 

 

The police had that ability and power under the old law. They could have gone after agencies and ladies working at an incall locations for example

Why didn't they...yes they had the ability and power, but not the resources...this bill hasn't given the police any more resources has it?

Not to mention irrespective of the law, escorts operated discretely. It's the street level prostitution I foresee will still be the focus of LE, not escorts/courtesans operating discretely

Just my opinion

 

RG

[drlove 37204]

The truth is, I would not be able to continue in my profession with a criminal record, so unfortunately I will be forced to quit.

[Guest Ou**or**n]

I can't stress this enough tho, if the bill as unlikely as it is now were to pass, stop doing everything in emails or texts. Does LE want to see what 'communicating' is all about? They will simply read your texts. If you have a conversation, it is unlikely they can get the OK for wire tapping any sp's phone, and they aren't going to do yours, so no record.

 

I think you are dead-on accurate on this point. It is a bit ironic that we are going to pushed backwards in time in terms of technology and going back to exclusively using the phone. Soon we'll be using the term 'call girls' again.

 

Even though I am strongly leaning towards quitting completely I do have some regulars that I really enjoy seeing and if I were to continue seeing them I would do so by phone.

 

I am single so I don't have a 'hobby phone'. However if I do continue to see providers I will certainly be buying a phone that is no way linked to my real identity.

[drlove 37204]

Not unless they plan to allocate more resources to the police, be it new hiring of officers, or money. They only plan to help ladies to the tune of twenty million dollars total!.....calculate that amount divided by the total number of major cities in Canada...it's pitiful but shows how much of a political priority this REALLY is.

Now you can enact all the laws you want, if LE isn't given a dime to enforce them, and they weren't, don't expect mass raids and arrests. They could have done raids and arrests under the current laws but didn't, did they. And just my opinion, but even if a law enforcement focus, it will be on street prostitution.

I don't have blinders on. But as pissed off as PM makes me, his comments in his speech were all about street prostitution. His actual monetary allocation in the bill, really pitiful if he truly cares, and none earmarked for enforcement and prosecution.

 

RG

 

Maybe so, BUT I was a strictly 100% outcall hobbyist. Therefore, I never broke the law while hobbying. With the new laws, it will be impossible NOT to break the law for anyone who chooses to continue, and the penalties are severe. At this point, I feel the risks would be too great...

 

Additional Comments:

I think you are dead-on accurate on this point. It is a bit ironic that we are going to pushed backwards in time in terms of technology and going back to exclusively using the phone. Soon we'll be using the term 'call girls' again.

 

Even though I am strongly leaning towards quitting completely I do have some regulars that I really enjoy seeing and if I were to continue seeing them I would do so by phone.

 

I am single so I don't have a 'hobby phone'. However if I do continue to see providers I will certainly be buying a phone that is no way linked to my real identity.

 

It would definitely require a re-education in practices for everyone. Right now for instance, hardly anyone uses the phone and the preferred method of contact is text, PM's and e-mails. Hypothetically speaking, I'd hate to get a potentially incriminating text / e-mail etc. from a provider from force of habit for instance.

[scrawl321 380]

I would like to continue, but I don't think I will. The act of being a client will be specifically illegal until the SC starts the cycle again. Until then, like some others have said, the risk will be unfortunately too high.

 

On thinking about the question, I realize that the primary factor that contributed to my getting into this hobby/lifestyle is the very existence of forums such as CERB. First of all, it contributed to raising my comfort level enough to even try it. Secondly, it creates the ability to be exposed to and connect with providers who to the greatest extent possible you can be fairly confident are involved, though surely for a diversity of reasons, through their own choice and motivation. In particular, well established independent providers. That is important to me.

 

An unfortunate reality of this legislation is that relatively open forums that involve both providers and clients may not exist in the future. Though I am sure something will evolve and the good folks of CERB are surely thinking about that question. Of course, it looks like SPs will legally be able to advertise their own services and that is fortunate. Unfortunately, under the proposed legislation, everything I would want to do after being exposed to that advertising would be illegal.

 

So will I continue? It may depend on if I connect will a small number of local providers and maintain a regular SP-client relationship with them. However, I don't partake that frequently and most often when travelling for work. I've seen only a small number of local providers and infrequently at that due to personal circumstances. Perhaps, I may focus on meeting or re-meeting with local and established providers in what time remains before the legislation passes (here's hoping for some great new connections!).

 

I don't know if the right circumstance will emerge for ongoing participation. I hope so but I have my doubts unless I feel I can establish a very discrete and trusted protocol that essentially eliminates the legal risk.

 

I hope the SC has the opportunity to do the right thing in a reasonable time frame.

 

In the meantime, I am appreciating the various points of views being expressed by SPs and clients as I decide what I will do.

[conquistador 18487]

The police had that ability and power under the old law. They could have gone after agencies and ladies working at an incall locations for example

Why didn't they...yes they had the ability and power, but not the resources...this bill hasn't given the police any more resources has it?

Not to mention irrespective of the law, escorts operated discretely. It's the street level prostitution I foresee will still be the focus of LE, not escorts/courtesans operating discretely

Just my opinion

 

RG

 

But I think the incall fell under a grey area, or else we wouldn't be discussing it on here... Outcalls are legal, so maybe the cops just let things be, unless there was an issue.

 

But with this law it will be 100 percent illegal, so the cops will have more power to prosecute us guys. Maybe the resources will not change but that doesn't mean the cops won't do anything, they may just shuffle around their own resources... Who knows.

 

I do agree that the majority of the focus will be on the street workers and not the escorts at the hotels/residences....Cause that's what people see. But it's a chance we'll all be taking now, not sure if I want to take that chance...

 

My chances are good now but not so much with the new law.

[fortunateone 156618]

But I think the incall fell under a grey area, or else we wouldn't be discussing it on here... Outcalls are legal, so maybe the cops just let things be, unless there was an issue.

 

But with this law it will be 100 percent illegal, so the cops will have more power to prosecute us guys. Maybe the resources will not change but that doesn't mean the cops won't do anything, they may just shuffle around their own resources... Who knows.

 

I do agree that the majority of the focus will be on the street workers and not the escorts at the hotels/residences....Cause that's what people see. But it's a chance we'll all be taking now, not sure if I want to take that chance...

 

My chances are good now but not so much with the new law.

 

 

Incalls were never grey. To the point people always thought well, the sp rents a hotel room, that will fix it. It didn't. As long as the sp is in one location, and clients come to her, that made it a bawdy house, i.e. criminalized. People assumed it was OK because no one ever got arrested for it, unless you were at a massage parlour of course. \

\So that law got applied against massage parlours because once you prove prostitution was occuring you got another handy charge to lay against the owners. But indy sps, that's a lot of man hours investigating someone who may see a handful of clients in a week. LE would find it hard to prove sex work was going on with so few to report going in and out.

[roamingguy 300292]

Incalls were never grey. To the point people always thought well, the sp rents a hotel room, that will fix it. It didn't. As long as the sp is in one location, and clients come to her, that made it a bawdy house, i.e. criminalized. People assumed it was OK because no one ever got arrested for it, unless you were at a massage parlour of course. \

\So that law got applied against massage parlours because once you prove prostitution was occuring you got another handy charge to lay against the owners. But indy sps, that's a lot of man hours investigating someone who may see a handful of clients in a week. LE would find it hard to prove sex work was going on with so few to report going in and out.

 

And goes back to what I have been saying. No new money or resources (ie hiring of new police officers) have been allocated to LE to enforce this new bill. They don't have the resources to go after very few clients that an SP/Courtesan would see. LE would target street level prostitution, it's easy for police to investigate versus going after escorts/courtesans and their clients.

Not to mention the first cases under the new law the Crown needs a conviction, not the court to throw out the case. Much easier using the law to target street prostitution

A early morning rambling

 

RG

[TheRiddlerMan 872]

Keep in mind that while texting in the traditional sense will certainly be risky, there are mobile apps that are specifically designed not to keep a record of anything. I suspect that will be the direction things will move in for providers who maintain an online presence. It's good for clients but it has the side effect of eliminating any means for sex workers to verify if the guy is legit (which is why most providers don't take blocked calls now). That's exactly what the sex provider groups claimed would happen, of course.

[spud271 47779]

I've created a good backup plan. Been making some good contacts knowing there was a possibility of this happening, so now I have some phone numbers of those I can trust to keep things hush, hush. As Old Dog said in another thread, this is just a bill and the Conservatives are taking loads of heat over this. It may be a popular bill in Alberta with their bible thumping voters, but in the rest of the country people are disgusted by this. Considering you need to win Ontario and Quebec to win the election, they are pissing off the wrong voter base. Either way, if I get fed up with all of this, I can just pack up and move either home or somewhere else.

[Ice4fun 78407]

The challenge will not be the ongoing conversations between regular clients and SP'S the issue will be that first contact and the willingness or lack thereof of clients to accept the additional risk. Over time options similar to those used in the US Will develop..... prostitution has existed since the beginning of time so a silly ill conceived law will not change that.

 

Just my opinion

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

I was here for somewhat tenuous reasons anyway and never needed much of a push to exit this industry. I think that I will likely stop seeing escorts if this bill becomes law, but really, this bill/law is just the "straw" for me. I always had some issues with participating in the industry being that I am married and had some guilty feelings around "stepping out" on my wife. How many others in similar situations feel the same?

 

As far as LE goes, I do think the police could look at their budgets and re-align their priorities initially to try and grab a few headlines. Long term things may resort back to a status quo position but I would not want to be the guy they caught during the initial crack down.

 

It is a shame that the government, and a considerable amount of the electorate feel that consensual paid sex between adults should be illegal. I say considerable as I do believe most staunch conservative and most(not all) women might agree with this approach. After all, I haven't met a woman outside this industry who looked favourably on prostitution. I know they exist but surely only as a minority. Just an observation, not a judgement.

 

These are just my own personal thoughts on the subject but in the end this will not stop prostitution. Sadly it will just make it less lucrative and more dangerous for the escorts.

[loopie 15358]

I agree with Steve McQueen's logic. If the bill does pass, it wouldn't surprise me if LE do a blitz to make themselves look good, then let ease off once they've got all the good press they can get out of it. Even if they don't get many convictions, a whole bunch of arrests might be good enough press.

[Andee 220524]

Just wanted to say...

 

As Old Dog posted in another thread, it's only a bill right now. I cannot believe the number of ladies and gents I have spoken to who are in panic mode right now.

 

If it does become law, stick to established providers you can trust for the first little while while waiting to see how this whole thing plays out.

[WriteOn 3250]

but LE doesn't see the clients and sps as any different. A new bill isn't going to have them seeing you as any more or less the perv they currently view clients.

 

I don't think what your saying is accurate.

 

http://www.wdio.com/article/stories/s3462883.shtml

[fortunateone 156618]

I don't think what your saying is accurate.

 

http://www.wdio.com/article/stories/s3462883.shtml

 

 

Should I clarify? LE already thinks that clients are pervs, at least the ones who see the street workers. So a bill telling them that they are supposed to see them as perverts isn't going to change the fact that they already do think that. :)

[canuckhooker 19203]

Should I clarify? LE already thinks that clients are pervs, at least the ones who see the street workers. So a bill telling them that they are supposed to see them as perverts isn't going to change the fact that they already do think that. :)

 

So every cop in Canada thinks that people who see prostitutes are pervs? Gee I never knew. There are a couple of my acquaintance who were unaware, I will have to tell them. Since you said it, it has to be true.

[Ice4fun 78407]

I was here for somewhat tenuous reasons anyway and never needed much of a push to exit this industry. I think that I will likely stop seeing escorts if this bill becomes law, but really, this bill/law is just the "straw" for me. I always had some issues with participating in the industry being that I am married and had some guilty feelings around "stepping out" on my wife. How many others in similar situations feel the same?

 

As far as LE goes, I do think the police could look at their budgets and re-align their priorities initially to try and grab a few headlines. Long term things may resort back to a status quo position but I would not want to be the guy they caught during the initial crack down.

 

It is a shame that the government, and a considerable amount of the electorate feel that consensual paid sex between adults should be illegal. I say considerable as I do believe most staunch conservative and most(not all) women might agree with this approach. After all, I haven't met a woman outside this industry who looked favourably on prostitution. I know they exist but surely only as a minority. Just an observation, not a judgement.

 

These are just my own personal thoughts on the subject but in the end this will not stop prostitution. Sadly it will just make it less lucrative and more dangerous for the escorts.

 

Speaking just for myself I gave always felt guilty for cheating on my wife but given my personal situation this hobby has been good for me and may even gave saved my marriage.... i don't feel guilty about the sex or companionship just not being honest.

 

In regards to men or women indicating publicly how they feel about prostitution... i think there may be more support then we think but like many of us the risk of the public stigma associated with it stops us from actually saying how we feel.

 

Just my opinion

[belfastspider 240]

I don't think what your saying is accurate.

 

http://www.wdio.com/article/stories/s3462883.shtml

 

 

Not to sure what to do,I have met beautiful ladies here.!!!

[Phaedrus 209521]

This one's a giant "Meh" at the moment.

 

First, as has been said, nothing is law yet.

 

Second, even if the bill becomes law unchanged... I'm wondering how many folks who quit initially will get bored of the company of their own right hands after a week, or a month, or whatever, and drift back...

[FunValerie 8573]

There are lots of people who might be in favor or the law just to cover up their personal lives. It sort of like their used to politicians who were opposed to being gay while being gay in their private lives.

 

QUOTE=Ice4fun;606406]Speaking just for myself I gave always felt guilty for cheating on my wife but given my personal situation this hobby has been good for me and may even gave saved my marriage.... i don't feel guilty about the sex or companionship just not being honest.

 

In regards to men or women indicating publicly how they feel about prostitution... i think there may be more support then we think but like many of us the risk of the public stigma associated with it stops us from actually saying how we feel.

 

Just my opinion

[peacectryguy 12547]

I would find it really interesting to sit down with some RCMP officers or other cops privately to see what their honest opinion of all this is. It probably depends on where they are posted or work on a daily basis but I would bet a great many of them feel that this only creates more work for them when they could be dealing with far more serious issues out there

Although this is much different, it reminds me a little of the pushing through of the gun registry in the 90's. The government pushed the thing down everyone's throat as a political ploy to show their constituents how tough they were and a few cops jumped on board (most notably, the police chief in Toronto at the time) and it turned into an epic waste of time and resources. Meanwhile the underground illegal guns flowed through this country. I remember at that time talking to several police officers who were dead set against the legislation. They realized how ill advised it was and how it would do nothing to stop gun violence.

This prostitution bill will become much of the same colossal failure of government to not see the forest for the trees. They make a bold move to appease a bunch of conservative right wing kooks and act like they are doing it in the best interest of the people involved. Meanwhile, the victims will be pushed farther into the shadows and hidden from view by those that exploit them.

[newboy 4919]

I have not really decided yet.

 

Probably like some of the gents have mentioned, I will probably stick to a few trusted ladies.

 

But on the other hand, the reason I do this is because of the variety.

 

Most of all I hope to be able to continue much as I have in the past, simply because I do not want to see "Chairman Harper" get his way on all of this.

 

NB

[mrrnice2 157005]

My answer right now would really have to be that I am unsure at the moment. I am still reasonably confident that reason will prevail and that this political foolishness will be withdrawn.

 

If not, then I suppose as the saying goes, "Where there's a will, there's a way."

[PistolPete 61421]

Goes "that's for me to know and you to find out " ;) which you would never know because it wasn't me. :)