New Proposed Law on Prostitution

[letsplay_57 3581]

Omg when is this country of ours going 2 get with today's times! Correct me if i'm wrong, but the proposed new law you won't be able 2 advertise & it seems that they want to bust the "Johns". Make it legal like other countries around the world & my feelings always were: if you don't drink you don't go 2 a bar, if you don't like a strip bar you don't go..that's your choice! Leave the rest of us to enjoy what we want! If your going 2 arrest Johns they better arrest the politicians also who enjoy some company...just throwing this out there 2 see what others think about proposed law

[loneskater 25635]

Omg when is this country of ours going 2 get with today's times! Correct me if i'm wrong, but the proposed new law you won't be able 2 advertise & it seems that they want to bust the "Johns". Make it legal like other countries around the world & my feelings always were: if you don't drink you don't go 2 a bar, if you don't like a strip bar you don't go..that's your choice! Leave the rest of us to enjoy what we want! If your going 2 arrest Johns they better arrest the politicians also who enjoy some company...just throwing this out there 2 see what others think about proposed law

 

Did you just wake up? Your starting a new thread on a subject that is well covered in the news section and general discussion are. There are so many threads I don't have enough fingers to count them all. All you have to do is look and read before getting your fingers on the keyboard. here are a few links:

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=181864

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=181863

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182001

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182018

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182017

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182024

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182021

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182105

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182159

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182173

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=182175

 

And there are many more. Enjoy reading them!

[Guest jrose]

Perhaps posting here was to start discussions with a local view on the topic? I'm not sure if any of you links are for nb or even Atlantic. Lots of discussion in those links but this thread allows us here in this area to talk on the topic without it getting lost in dozens of other posts...

[letsplay_57 3581]

You are correct JROSE i was trying 2 get a discussion going @ NB...

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I think loneskater was also trying to point out that reading these posts have a lot of information on the how's and why's and what's, so perhaps it is good to read some of what has been discussed.

 

But your right Let'splay, I think it is important for us NB to discuss this ourselves as well. We are a small number here and now more then ever we need to understand each other, and unite for our protection.

 

I did start a thread, about how enquiring and advertising is going to be dramatically changes IF this becomes our reality. I am looking forward to hearing from what others think.

 

Remember, merely bitching about this bill wont change anything, we must be proactive and start writing our letters to the political offices. Tell them that this bill will cause more violence, murders and turn regular people into criminals. We are adults, get out of our bedrooms! I am fine tuning my letters today and will be sent out by the weekend.

 

Anyone else joining me? I will post my letter publically so if anyone want a template to go by, feel free to take from it, of course change it up to fit you. Also a donation to P.O.W.E.R is a great idea too. They need funding to fight the good fight!

I just donated, here is a link if you would like to do the same!

http://www.powerottawa.ca/donate.html

 

HERE IS MY LETTER!

I writing your office with great concern with the new C-36 bill that is being purposed. I am concerned for the safety of women/men in the industry, this bill is going to increase the risk level for women/men that are on the streets as well as anyone in the industry otherwise. With out the ability to communicate properly, we are putting ladies/men in the direct line of safety issues. Both Provider and client needs to know exactly what is being offered and what boundaries each provider has. With out communicating this, many may be raped, robbed, STD could rise and unwanted pregnancies may occur. At least with the old laws, women/men were not hidden so far into the shadows, and so when they required help, it was easy to find. But with this Bill, they will be so far removed that they will not be able to seek out help quickly.

 

For indoor workers, this means we can not clearly state what we offer. Like for myself, I only offer some services. How can I now make sure my client understands this? What if he wants more than I offer and gets agitated? Am I going to now be in a situation that I can not handle and too scared to call the cops? What about ladies and men that work in an agency? What if these providers do not know yet how to work safely? Perhaps they are trying to get their life together, or off the streets? What if agencies now close because we can not advertise? These providers will end up on the streets! Where otherwise those providers would have worked safely, discretely and with dignity but will be on the streets and be in the range of much more degrading situations, drug abuse to cope, and just become criminals.

I am not suggesting to allow great big " cat houses" to be opened up with flashing signs to welcome and entice you. I am talking about a couple of ladies or just one lady that is using her own space to work from. Indoors, where it is private, clean and not in the eye sight of those who do not agree with our choices. We need to be able to communicate and advertise properly to keep us safe in our homes.

Our clients are NOT PERVS, as Peter Mackay has suggested. They are family men, lonely men, disabled men, voting men, tax paying men, some are married couples wanting to have a bit more fun in their marriage. Some are soldiers needing relaxation after being in the field! Some are just not good with the ladies and need some love too!

 

Pervs are the ones who sell young girls, coheres and force them into this trade. We need to put our taxes towards these people who are breaking the laws that are already in place. Human trafficking, minors, pimping rings, exploitation is the where we need to enforce laws. Leave us ADULTS the right to decide what we feel is best for us. We are adults, consenting, clean and respectable members of our communities. Please stay out of my sex life and my bedroom.

[Guest jrose]

Supporting and speaking out for changes with this bill seems to be a bit catch 22. Do it under an alias or anonymous handle and you risk not being taken seriously, publicly speak out with your own info and you risk being branded / watched or judged.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

True, but I am sending of course with alias. I went back and forth on that issue, wanting it to be my real voice, but yes have chosen a separate email not associated with my business or real name.

 

They want us to be scared to speak up, in fact they are probably have succeeded with that! NOTHING WILL CHANGE OR GO IN OUR FAVOR IF WE DO NOT TRY.

[WriteOn 3250]

Did you just wake up? Your starting a new thread on a subject that is well covered in the news section and general discussion are.

 

It is very common on this site for the same subject to be talked about in multiple threads and in the case of bbbj, in multiple threads for, literally, years.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I actually decided to send in snail mail! LOL...it was done before internet, and still can be done this way! No stamp needed and no return addy required. All 300+ MP will get a copy.

 

I am also going to include the fact that I am doing this anonymous for fear of the government, and how sad it is a CANADIAN has to fear freedom of speech and expression, and this is what this bill will produce, is a bunch of scared Canadians who will now be too scared of the law to ask for help when needed.

[NorthernBoy 538]

Well said!!!

[letsplay_57 3581]

UNTIL PEOPLE SPEAK UP OR SEND LETTERS TO MP'S...THIS COUNTRY WILL NOT CHANGE...YES I HAVE BEEN AWAKE FOR MANY YEARS!!!...SORRY I FORGET YOUR HANDLE OR USERNAME!!!!...i'VE READ OR SEEN LOTS OF ARTICLES ON THIS!!! MAYBE YOU SHOULD WAKE UP!!! I'M TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO MAKE A CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY INSTEAD OF GOING BEHIND THE TIMES!!!

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Letsplay, so what options and steps can you suggest?

 

I have posted already on the letter I am sending, I also have suggested on how to do it anonymously with snail mail, to avoid spam. Donating to P.O.W.E.R group or any other activist group that lobby's for sex workers.

 

It took me all of 20 min to write my letter, now the hard part, stuffing envelops hahahha. But I am just one, there are others submitting letters is anyone else in NB bothering to do this?

 

For anyone looking for the email addresses, there is a thread titled " email address part 1" and of course part 2. I am now needing to find where to snail mail the letters? Do they all get addressed to HP? or individual offices? Can someone supply me with these addresses?

 

These are stressful times for all, let's be kind and patient with one another?

[fortunateone 156618]

I actually decided to send in snail mail! LOL...it was done before internet, and still can be done this way! No stamp needed and no return addy required. All 300+ MP will get a copy.

 

I am also going to include the fact that I am doing this anonymous for fear of the government, and how sad it is a CANADIAN has to fear freedom of speech and expression, and this is what this bill will produce, is a bunch of scared Canadians who will now be too scared of the law to ask for help when needed.

 

Joy Smith bragged she got a ton of postcards, so doing snail mail is probably a good idea.

 

If you know the mp's name, then a simple google will direct you to their office address. Also, I imagine if they are in session, there must be a main address to mail to, and then it is simply having their name on it, party, etc.

 

Also recommend you send letters/emails to the people on the Justice Committee. Most important are the Vice-chair, Boiven and Casey, who have both expressed their views are against C-36.

 

The mp for Esquimalt (NDP) already came out today and said he will not be voting for this bill. it would be great to hear from others saying the same thing so firmly. He expressed this based on long discussions with PEERS in Victoria, BC, in person, in phone conversation, and letter or press release they gave out.

 

http://randallgarrison.ndp.ca/ this links to his info, but it shows the Hill Office address, which i am sure you could mail all your letters with different names on them. The great thing about Garrison is that he is solidly anti-C36, and no one can say it is because he's a guy and keeping prostitution in place is in his best interest as a guy. But he's a gay guy, and everyone knows that bill C-36 doesn't care about male sps, so he can't be said to have a biased interest in keeping a supply of sps for himself ...... and yes, that is an accusation radfems hurl at any man who says he is interested in the rights of sex workers to determine their own working conditions and to decide what is safe for them. :)

 

:)

[Ice4fun 78407]

Letsplay, so what options and steps can you suggest?

 

I have posted already on the letter I am sending, I also have suggested on how to do it anonymously with snail mail, to avoid spam. Donating to P.O.W.E.R group or any other activist group that lobby's for sex workers.

 

It took me all of 20 min to write my letter, now the hard part, stuffing envelops hahahha. But I am just one, there are others submitting letters is anyone else in NB bothering to do this?

 

For anyone looking for the email addresses, there is a thread titled " email address part 1" and of course part 2. I am now needing to find where to snail mail the letters? Do they all get addressed to HP? or individual offices? Can someone supply me with these addresses?

 

These are stressful times for all, let's be kind and patient with one another?

 

The house of Commons website has addresses for all members.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

For anyone who wants to send VIA mail, here is the link with the names,

http://www.parl.gc.ca/parliamentarians/en/members

 

also postage stamp free, address to:

 

Name of Member of Parliament

House of Commons

Ottawa, Ontario

Canada

K1A 0A6

 

HERE IS MY FINAL COPY:

I want to begin this letter with explaining why I have chosen old fashion regular mail rather then email. With the new Bill that has been presented, I do not feel safe or secure to give you my identity. I feel that is rather sad to be a Canadian and yet fear my government and law. Sadly, this Bill C-36 will produce many scared Canadians when needing help from local police and government offices.

Also, other than what I have written below, I also want to point out a fact that some MP's may miss. It is about advertising and the sites that we use for advertising. Without our sites, our Law Enforcement will have a very difficult time finding those people who are underage and forced into the trade. From most of the bust that I see, it all begins with an advertisement for such terrible scenarios. I would think it is wiser to keep advertising so that LE do have a way to reach and help these people to safety. However, us adults that choose to be there should have the rights and freedom of speech and expression.

 

I writing your office with great concern with the new C-36 bill that is being purposed. I am concerned for the safety of women/men in the industry, this bill is going to increase the risk level for women/men that are on the streets as well as anyone in the industry otherwise. With out the ability to communicate properly, we are putting ladies/men in the direct line of safety issues. Both Provider and client needs to know exactly what is being offered and what boundaries each provider has. With out communicating this, many may be raped, robbed, STD could rise and unwanted pregnancies may occur. At least with the old laws, women/men were not hidden so far into the shadows, and so when they required help, it was easy to find. But with this Bill, they will be so far removed that they will not be able to seek out help quickly.

 

For indoor workers, this means we can not clearly state what we offer. Like for myself, I only offer some services. How can I now make sure my client understands this? What if he wants more than I offer and gets agitated? Am I going to now be in a situation that I can not handle and too scared to call the cops? What about ladies and men that work in an agency? What if these providers do not know yet how to work safely? Perhaps they are trying to get their life together, or off the streets? What if agencies now close because we can not advertise? These providers will end up on the streets! Where otherwise those providers would have worked safely, discretely and with dignity but will be on the streets and be in the range of much more degrading situations, drug abuse to cope, and just become criminals.

I am not suggesting to allow great big " cat houses" to be opened up with flashing signs to welcome and entice you. I am talking about a couple of ladies or just one lady that is using her own space to work from. Indoors, where it is private, clean and not in the eye sight of those who do not agree with our choices. We need to be able to communicate and advertise properly to keep us safe in our homes.

 

Our clients are NOT PERVS, as Peter Mackay has suggested. They are family men, lonely men, disabled men, voting men, tax paying men, some are married couples wanting to have a bit more fun in their marriage. Some are soldiers needing relaxation after being in the field! Some are just not good with the ladies and need some love too!

 

Pervs are the ones who sell young girls, coheres and force them into this trade. We need to put our taxes towards these people who are breaking the laws that are already in place. Human trafficking, minors, pimping rings, exploitation is the where we need to enforce laws. Leave us ADULTS the right to decide what we feel is best for us. We are adults, consenting, clean and respectable members of our communities. Please stay out of my sex life and my bedroom.

[rickkkm 525]

I think you should consider publishing this letter; it is great and puts the emphasis on the real issues. Minister Mackay is perhaps simply just a poster boy but nevertheless, he could show some leadership by at least accepting to send this proposed new Law to the Supreme Court for their assessment, since this whole exercise is a result of them rejecting the status quo. Lives of innocent women are at risk here as under this proposal, women will simply go underground and in the shadows, thus making them even more vulnerable.

Good work!!

[fortunateone 156618]

You might need to note that Hillyer believes that advertising online is currently illegal. A reminder in there that it is not might be helpful, and also a quote that he seems to think it will be OK to break the law?

 

Mr. Speaker, a couple of concerns about the opposition to this bill.

 

A lot of the opposition is based on the assumption that the current status quo is full legalization. The sex worker's letter that he quoted, the lady was describing activities that are already illegal.

 

Advertising, soliciting, sexual services and doing it both online and in public are already illegal activities and so if these people are already willing to give their information during this illegal activity I'm not sure why they wouldn't be under this new legislation, this legislation actually does meet the spirit of the supreme court ruling.

 

They were clear in their ruling that they wanted -- that they were open and not only open but they requested that parliament seek legislation around prostitution just decriminalizing it or legalizing it all we would have to do is let the year go up and so it is clear they wanted to do something more than just get rid of all legislation.

 

So I would like the member to comment on this and explain how this doesn't meet the spirits of the supreme court ruling.

 

Plus he seems to believe that SCC requested legislation, which they did not do as it is quoted here what they actually said:

 

Concluding that each of the challenged provisions violates the Charter does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes. The regulation of prostitution is a complex and delicate matter. It will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach, reflecting different elements of the existing regime. Considering all the interests at stake, the declaration of invalidity should be suspended for one year.

 

There is nothing in there that says they required Parliament to do anything.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Well have 100 envelops stuffed, 200 to go...no paper cuts, lol.

 

I am shocked at how little interest clients and ladies have on this topic.

 

Like they just hope everyone else gives a crap, and not willing to do anything themselves:( I have heard " ohhh I don't care, I am only in this short term" well, gee, don't you care about others in general? Many say.." ohh well what can I do, the Gov will do what they want"

 

I imagine these same people do not bother voting either!

 

OMG do we live in a democratic or dictatorship?? Like if we do not stand up, we will be no better then a dictatorship society!! We are Canadian, we CAN speak up, we CAN lobby and protest, yet 80% of us are just too lazy and hope the person next to them will take care of it:(

 

The great thing about our country is we DO have rights, we CAN speak up, we CAN lobby for our best interest.

 

I donated to POWER group, I got a heartfelt thank you letter and was explained with my donation they were able to pay for translations for a brochure they are sending to all MP's! That makes me feel really good! So even if you nit willing to write letters, etc...a simple donation can help this group speak up for us:)

 

anyways...back to stuffing envelops hahhaa...sorry for the rant...

[scribbles 6031]

As I've said elsewhere, to have a voice, people have to speak. It sounds like a circular argument, but clients feel they have an opinion that isn't being considered, but nobody is speaking up.

 

In another thread, I challenged clients to come forward. I am relatively articulate and reasonably motivated, and I have studied the industry with an intention of writing about it. I challenged clients to contact me so that I can gather information to write about the industry from their perspective and paint a picture of who clients are that popular propaganda does not allow. It would all be anonymous, by email or message.

 

*ONE* person contacted me.

 

The offer stands. If you aren't willing to speak up, how can you reasonably expect things to change?

[Ice4fun 78407]

As I've said elsewhere, to have a voice, people have to speak. It sounds like a circular argument, but clients feel they have an opinion that isn't being considered, but nobody is speaking up.

 

In another thread, I challenged clients to come forward. I am relatively articulate and reasonably motivated, and I have studied the industry with an intention of writing about it. I challenged clients to contact me so that I can gather information to write about the industry from their perspective and paint a picture of who clients are that popular propaganda does not allow. It would all be anonymous, by email or message.

 

*ONE* person contacted me.

 

The offer stands. If you aren't willing to speak up, how can you reasonably expect things to change?

 

I think you need to be careful in assuming that because you were not inundated with contacts that people are not doing what they can. From a personal perspective I don't know you so I'm not sure I have a lot to share with you. That said I have operated within my sphere of influence and comfort to initiate discussions about sex work and the new legislation.

 

Just my opinion

[scribbles 6031]

Fair point and well taken.

However, there's an element of risk involved in this for all of us, which is why I am stressing the anonymity of the project.

 

In my opinion, writing letters to MPs is noble and great, but doesn't address the greater issue: politicians are swayed by votes, and the best way to influence votes is to influence public opinion. I truly believe this battle needs to be fought in the court of public opinion, not by arguing directly with disinterested politicians. *This* is how the abolitionists and Joy Smiths are winning. They are controlling the prevailing narrative through the media, the internet, etc.

 

A different profile of who clients and workers are needs to be presented to the public. If the public sees a valid position beyond the one-sided propaganda of the abolitionists, they may pressure the government to address the issue. That's a much louder voice than a bunch of industry insiders.

[WriteOn 3250]

A different profile of who clients and workers are needs to be presented to the public. If the public sees a valid position beyond the one-sided propaganda of the abolitionists, they may pressure the government to address the issue. That's a much louder voice than a bunch of industry insiders.

 

I'm not sure the voices of anonymous faceless people will help either. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing something to try and help out but I'm not sure what exactly you're suggesting you're going to do with feedback from members here.

[scribbles 6031]

You're right. People standing up en masse in front of cameras and declaring that they use the services of sex workers would have a much bigger impact. Anonymity is definitely a barrier. I was impressed to hear the CBC interview with James Rodney, and admitted regular client of sex services. I'd guess that there aren't an abundance of James Rodneys out there, though.

 

What Rodney did was put a different perspective of clients in front of a public audience. It's harder for the abolitionists to declare that all clients are abusive, violent, uneducated sex addicts preying on innocent women when those characterizations are challenged openly.

 

I'm not saying what I propose is invariably right, or that there can't be a better idea. I just think it will help more to have the client perspective published openly, rather than it being easily drowned out by the opposing viewpoint.