Personal Integrity

[mrrnice2 157005]

I wonder at times if there is anyone left in this with world with true personal integrity, myself included in that general statement. I've been pondering this for a while now and and some recent events have caused me to jot down my thoughts.

 

The first two events are political in nature and many may argue it's not an integrity question at all, just politics.

 

The first is this. My own Member of Parliament, a long time Liberal member is also a devout Catholic. He has gone on record as being against legal abortion in Canada. As much as I may disagree with that I can at least respect his decision based on his vision of morality and religious belief.

 

However, based on Justin Trudeau's recent comments that all Liberal nominees for the next Parliament must be Pro-abortion, my MP just prior to the nomination meeting went on record as saying that if it ever came to a vote in the House he would vote for the right to choose. Personal integrity? Whatever respect I had for him is gone.

 

The second political event is the Bill C-36 legislation. It is most interesting that as far as I know, not one single solitary Conservative MP has spoken out against the bill. It is equally interesting that as far as I know not one single solitary opposition member has spoken out in favor of the bill. As this is legislation that has the potential to have women killed, do I believe that every single Member of Parliament is, by pure coincidence, supporting their party line? Not for a single minute do I believe that.

 

I have not heard one opposition party leader state that they will reverse the legislation if they are voted into power. They could but do they care either?

 

Political office is merely to them a game, a power game. I probably have as much respect for a Joy Smith as a Justin Trudeau or a Thomas Mulcair because at least I believe that she believes, even if I think she is terribly wrong. I don't know what anyone else believes.

 

That's a political side of the personal integrity question.

 

How about our own integrity? This could be a question for the game, "Scruples," but consider it for a moment.

 

Let us say that, God forbid, you as a client are the unfortunate one to be arrested and charged under this new potential legislation. In a court room, under oath after swearing on a bible, are you going to lie and say that you only paid for time and companionship and that there was never any sex? If you as an SP are called as a witness, are you, under oath after swearing on a bible, going to mislead the court in order to protect your client? You cannot be charged for a crime if you tell the truth but perjury is a crime.

 

Personal integrity.

 

I recall well a few years back one of our absolutely most respected and well thought of women on the board said something to the effect that if she were in a hotel room with a client and a fire broke out that she would quickly find herself all alone. I challenged her on that at the time and we had a good private discussion on that. Was she right?

 

Personal integrity.

 

I am now just past sixty years old. I have always prided myself on my sense of idealism and personal integrity. I am feeling quite badly that over the last couple of years, for a number of reasons beyond politics that I am losing that.

 

Personal integrity. I wonder..........

[Guest S*rca****sid]

The first is this. My own Member of Parliament, a long time Liberal member is also a devout Catholic. He has gone on record as being against legal abortion in Canada. As much as I may disagree with that I can at least respect his decision based on his vision of morality and religious belief.

 

However, based on Justin Trudeau's recent comments that all Liberal nominees for the next Parliament must be Pro-abortion, my MP just prior to the nomination meeting went on record as saying that if it ever came to a vote in the House he would vote for the right to choose. Personal integrity? Whatever respect I had for him is gone.

 

I personally don't think that your member of parliament has lost any integrity from the example you stated. I understand that some people feel very strong about abortion (either for or against it). Just because his beliefs are strong against the issue, doesn't mean this particular member of parliament wants to force his opinion onto others. So he may have decided that if the vote is brought to parliament, that he would vote against any legislation. I'm sure it was a tough decision for him to make, but the right one in his mind.

 

I don't see that argument any different that if someone were to support the full legalization of marijuana. It doesn't mean that person is a "pot head", they may never choose to even touch it, but feel that others should have the right to access it (like some medical patients).

 

I personally don't smoke and I would strongly discourage anyone close to me who would want to smoke. It's just common knowledge the harmful effects of cigarettes. But I'm not protesting outside convenience stores holding signs and confronting everyone on the street with a cigarette or holding a carton. Neither am I trying to assassinate the CEOs of the cigarette companies. If I was an MP and a bill was introduced to ban cigarettes, I wouldn't waste my time voting on it, because it would be a waste of resources and it would drive the industry underground (hmm, reminds me of another subject).

 

Does that mean I have no integrity?

[mrgreen760 37785]

Personal Integrity, An interesting question:

 

In my business relationships it's easy and my integrity is beyond reproach. I act honestly, am straight forward, demanding but very fair and say what I mean and mean what I said. Not everyone loves me but they respect me.

 

In my personal life it obviously gets more complicated, case in point, I'm commenting on this question on an escort recommendation board and have participated in something that my partner is not privy to, so one could argue there goes the integrity question out the window. It is but one facet of personal integrity but it's a big one for sure.

 

In the end I know and accept that I'm an imperfect person, I strive to be a good guy to all and in almost all aspects of my life I believe I act with a high degree of integrity.

 

Peace

MG

[mrrnice2 157005]

Personal Integrity, An interesting question:

 

In the end I know and accept that I'm an imperfect person, I strive to be a good guy to all and in almost all aspects of my life I believe I act with a high degree of integrity.

 

Peace

MG

 

Thanks mrgreen. I appreciate the response. Nobody is perfect either in their own mind or to everyone else and that is a given. All that we can do is act as best as we can in the circumstances that we are in. Like you I try, but questioning is something that we all do, and rightly.

 

Just because his beliefs are strong against the issue, doesn't mean this particular member of parliament wants to force his opinion onto others. So he may have decided that if the vote is brought to parliament, that he would vote against any legislation. I'm sure it was a tough decision for him to make, but the right one in his mind.

 

Thanks f-Stop for the reply. I suppose in my mind there is a line of some sort, and issues of life and death and religious and moral conviction would serve as that line? Abortion and the death penalty would be two issues such as that.

 

I just checked and I thought that I had it correct. In 1976 A Liberal MP named Warren Allmond was the Solicitor-General of Canada. One of his roles was to be the final authority to sign off on a death penalty verdict before it was carried out. He made a blanket statement that he would refuse to sign one, ever, and brought in the legislation that removed that penalty from Canada. He stood for his principles and personal integrity. He did it again when he voted against a Paul Martin budget because it would hurt too many people and was removed from cabinet. Are there many with that personal integrity?

[lipualipua 4704]

If I was an MP and a bill was introduced to ban cigarettes, I wouldn't waste my time voting on it, because it would be a waste of resources and it would drive the industry underground (hmm, reminds me of another subject).

 

Does that mean I have no integrity?

 

I am lost here - would you abstain from voting or would you vote against that bill?

[Guest S*rca****sid]

I am lost here - would you abstain from voting or would you vote against that bill?

It doesn't matter. My point is, that I wouldn't vote For a ban on cigarettes.

[roamingguy 300292]

Interesting and good post. Personally I'm a political agnostic, although right now I don't like the CPC. But I hold no dreams that if an ouster of the CPC comes in the next election, the Liberals or NDP will be the white knights coming in, and it will be utopia.

All politicians, jmo, are more concerned about being in power and staying in power, or second best, if not in power, at least sitting as an MP in the House.

As for Bill C36 the CPC wants it, the Opposition doesn't. But why? Do you really think its because of the issue. I think in large part the CPC wanted this legislation as a way to thumb their nose at the SCC. The Opposition, they likely don't agree with the legislation more because it is a CPC legislation than anything else. If the CPC produced a good Bill, one supportive of this lifestyle, and protective of women, and in the spirit of the SCC decision, then the Opposition would hate it. In politics, integrity means little, you as an MP must be against what the other side is for,and for what the other side is against. And above all else stand united with your Party. Without for one minute worrying if what you are supporting or are against for the Party flies in the face of your own personal values and integrity

Why Trudeau would want a united front on abortion I do not know. The Liberal caucus should have stood up and said any such vote on such a personal matter should be a free vote. While Trudeau announced a party line on abortion, it really was the Liberal inner sanctum (including Trudeau) who want this. Such a vote on abortion wouldn't be a vote bringing about a confidence vote. So what I don't understand isn't so much why Trudeau wants a party line on abortion, but why the Liberal caucus said yes

Now me, if charged, well I'll just exercise my right to be silent ;-) But if I do take the stand, is it ok to lie because I swore on the Bible? I ask because I'm Agnostic, yes really. But nothing in that law says friends can't get together. Actually don't know how I would deal with it, except most important thing, if the police bust in, I'll just shut my mouth and say nothing

Fortunately for those of us in this lifestyle, escorts and clients alike, who partake discretely, we won't be bothered IMHO, it's street prostitution that will be LE's focus because they can't afford to target and enforce anti prostitution laws against escorts and clients.

Which also begs another question, if the CPC's new Bill, C36 has a calling in it to save prostitutes from johns and perverts, why doesn't the Government back their words and law with the money and resources to enforce it? What does that say about their integrity in drafting this Bill, when they knew they didn't have the resources to enforce the law they want passed

A few ramblings

 

RG

[lipualipua 4704]

It doesn't matter. My point is, that I wouldn't vote For a ban on cigarettes.

 

Please read what you wrote earlier, quoted below:

"If I was an MP and a bill was introduced to ban cigarettes........."

 

So, you are in parliament, a bill has been introduced to ban cigarette smoking and you won't vote for that bill. I repeat : are you going to abstain or vote against it? Please understand that I am not looking to pick a fight. Integrity, ironically, is what is being discussed here. Let us say your name is called out to get your vote - a "yea" or a "no". From your post, you are not going to vote "yea". What will your vote be then? Cheers.

[Guest S*rca****sid]

Please read what you wrote earlier, quoted below:

"If I was an MP and a bill was introduced to ban cigarettes........."

 

So, you are in parliament, a bill has been introduced to ban cigarette smoking and you won't vote for that bill. I repeat : are you going to abstain or vote against it? Please understand that I am not looking to pick a fight. Integrity, ironically, is what is being discussed here. Let us say your name is called out to get your vote - a "yea" or a "no". From your post, you are not going to vote "yea". What will your vote be then? Cheers.

Yes, that's right.

[lipualipua 4704]

Yes, that's right.

 

 

Excuse me, what is right?

[Guest S*rca****sid]

Excuse me, what is right?

You quoted me and then repeated the statement yourself. And I'm saying that it is correct.

[lipualipua 4704]

You quoted me and then repeated the statement yourself. And I'm saying that it is correct.

 

Oh!, I see. I wonder why it is so difficult for you to be positive ( in the sense of voting) instead of negative ( in the sense of not voting).

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

It can be difficult for a public person to display "personal" integrity. Many people feel a public person should represent the majorities viewpoint, which is not correct. Everyone has a right to their own views however, your representative voting "pro choice" simply means the public person respects "your" right to decide for yourself just as he or she can decide for themselves. Pro choice means you each can decide for yourself. No lack of integrity there, merely common sense.

 

As for what one would do if they had to testify in court, hopefully you had that talk with yourself before you went down this path and decided on your response then.

 

Following your own code is a difficult but rewarding path.

[Guest S*rca****sid]

Oh!, I see. I wonder why it is so difficult for you to be positive ( in the sense of voting) instead of negative ( in the sense of not voting).

What is difficult?

[piano8950 32577]

I

I recall well a few years back one of our absolutely most respected and well thought of women on the board said something to the effect that if she were in a hotel room with a client and a fire broke out that she would quickly find herself all alone. I challenged her on that at the time and we had a good private discussion on that. Was she right?

 

I can answer this one!

 

I was with a woman, and the alarm started ringing. Naked, we thought about just ignoring it, then I kept on thinking about the following day's headlines "Two corpses found in sex position in building fire". It seemed like a stupid way to go.

 

So we packed up, and went down together.

 

 

Escort left alone after fire/fire alarm -

[lipualipua 4704]

What is difficult?

 

It clearly is difficult for you to make a choice between alternatives offered you - in this case "yea", "nay" or "abstain". Once again, I remind you that integrity is under discussion.

[Guest S*rca****sid]

It clearly is difficult for you to make a choice between alternatives offered you - in this case "yea", "nay" or "abstain". Once again, I remind you that integrity is under discussion.

There is/was no difficulty in making my decision. I clearly stated my decision as you can see. I know this thread is about integrity and I also stated my point about the topic.

[lipualipua 4704]

There is/was no difficulty in making my decision. I clearly stated my decision as you can see. I know this thread is about integrity and I also stated my point about the topic.

 

Your decision is a........non-decisioon! Let's look at context. You yourself said that if you were an MP and a bill was introduced to ban marijuana/smoking you would not vote for it. Imagine you are sitting in parliament and then your name is called for your vote or, if secrecy is important, a piece of paper is given to you to write your vote.

 

There is a reason why the alternatives are given - to avoid ambiguity of answers by MPS. In fact this method of alternatives is given in most surveys for precisely the same reason.

 

So, in place of putting a check mark in the box of your prefferd choice, are you going to write somewhere on the paper that " I will not vote for the ban on smoking"?

[Guest S*rca****sid]

Your decision is a........non-decisioon! Let's look at context. You yourself said that if you were an MP and a bill was introduced to ban marijuana/smoking you would not vote for it. Imagine you are sitting in parliament and then your name is called for your vote or, if secrecy is important, a piece of paper is given to you to write your vote.

 

There is a reason why the alternatives are given - to avoid ambiguity of answers by MPS. In fact this method of alternatives is given in most surveys for precisely the same reason.

 

So, in place of putting a check mark in the box of your prefferd choice, are you going to write somewhere on the paper that " I will not vote for the ban on smoking"?

A non-decision is not doing or saying anything. For example, if I ask someone, "Are you going to turn left, right or go straight" and they replied "I don't know". Then that is a non-decision.

As I've stated before, I have stated my answer, therefore I have made a decision.

[peacectryguy 12547]

This is an interesting topic. Personal integrity, I fear, in this modern world is becoming as rare as common sense. It has become too easy to go back on our word. I see it all the time around me. It seems people don't truly believe in anything but getting what they they want at that moment.

 

As for politics, I believe that integrity has never been a factor in political thinking. Politicians have always been the same. Get elected and follow the party line regardless of how asinine the party line policies are. Case in point, the stupid bill we can't stop talking about.

 

As for me, I can be just as guilty as anyone, I suppose. If I lied in court, it would probably have more to do with protecting the escort than myself. I am definitely not too concerned about the new law. Drag my ass in court and ask stupid questions if they want. I doubt they will waste their time on me but if they must, I might just get extremely rude and end up in jail for contempt. Of course, they have no idea just how much contempt I have for them all.

[Old Dog 179138]

Here's the thing... NONE of us have the personal integrity that we think we have.

 

We sympathize and empathize with so many damn things be it the end to poverty, racial equality, gender equality, world peace, mental illness or whatever... but each of us is sitting here on this board trying to figure out how to spend money on sex.

 

That's NOT a bad thing.

 

That $200 -$1500 or whatever you are spending could put clothes on someone's back. It could put groceries in someone's kitchen. It could go a long way into the treatment or cure for heart disease, cancer, HIV/AIDS, drug addiction, mental illness. It could fund legal battles for all sorts of social issues.

 

But you are spending that money on your PENIS.

 

Now your money will help someone pay rent or mortgage or child care expenses. It will put food on someone's table. It will help make someone else's life a lot easier. That's not a bad thing. That's a really good thing.

 

But it's not altruism. It's not charitable. It's a pay for play. It's funding a small business. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

 

Now... tell me again about integrity. We have high ideals and beliefs about getting things right in the world and we go out and blow money on getting blown.

 

It's not just politicians. It's not just the police or the church or public employees or anyone else you want to target as having no integrity. It's all of us.

 

So when you point the finger of criticism at people remember there are 3 fingers on that same hand pointing right back at you (unless you are a contortionist and deliberately point your finger like some kind of circus freak.)

 

Bottom line?

 

We all compromise our personal integrity. We all compromise our ethical integrity. We may not even think of it... we may be so goal oriented that we are oblivious to the fact that we do and say things that are so contrary to what we believe. It's much harder to stand back and judge when you put things in perspective.

 

Out of this context, think of it this way. When you walk to Tim Hortons on a break and the homeless guy asks for spare change does your personal integrity win or does your thirst for a coffee win?

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

However, based on Justin Trudeau's recent comments that all Liberal nominees for the next Parliament must be Pro-abortion

 

Trudeau did not say they must be pro-abortion. He said pro-choice. There is a difference.

[LeeRichards 177238]

Trudeau did not say they must be pro-abortion. He said pro-choice. There is a difference.

 

Once it is legal ... we can shmoke a doobie and discuss this difference and giggle a bit I recon. ;)

[lipualipua 4704]

Once it is legal ... we can shmoke a doobie and discuss this difference and giggle a bit I recon. ;)

 

Hi Lee : once what is legal?

 

Additional Comments:

A non-decision is not doing or saying anything. For example, if I ask someone, "Are you going to turn left, right or go straight" and they replied "I don't know". Then that is a non-decision.

As I've stated before, I have stated my answer, therefore I have made a decision.

 

You have dodged my question. I will repost it here :" So, in place of putting a check mark in the box of your prefferd choice, are you going to write somewhere on the paper that " I will not vote for the ban on smoking"?" Integrity, man, integrity.

[Ice4fun 78407]

For me integrity is not as simple as a one question litmus test... integrity is mire about how someone behaves in their life day after day.... I cheat on my wife by seeing SP'S... it's not something that I am proud of and yea it affects my personal integrity... but it does not mean I don't have personal integrity....in general I think people who know me would say I daily carry out my life with integrity and honesty.... i do the things in my life that I say... i walk the talk. Does that mean I perfect of course not... who the fuck is... we all have our weak points. it's when your weak points dominate your behaviour that I think you have an integrity problem.

 

For politicians you have to consider the environment they operate in... the party system.... the constantly looking for public approval.... the need to appear to support your political base while reaching out to those in the right or left. it is very hard to demonstrate integrity in that model. Does Peter McKay think his new law will eradicate prostitution no... but it plays well to his base...it's safe the people who don't like the bill will for the most part not change their vote in the next election. He is doing what i expected from him.

 

Just my opinion