what would you do ladies may also comment

[cat 262460]

I won't comment on all of your reply since we appear to agree to disagree on most points, which is totally fine of course. But I think my point on secrecy is black and white, if a provider does not disclose her cycle and engages in vaginal activities...she is keeping it a secret, not sure how you can argue that. I agree with your preaching on the use of dental dams, but as I have been told on numerous occasions that I "most likely have had a session with an SP during her cycle", it has never been suggested "you should use a dental dam, I am having my cycle".

 

Agree that each party needs to manage their own risks and be responsible for their own health, which we all know can only be guaranteed by not participating in this industry. Informed clients and providers perform research and weigh the risks, they do that with the knowledge available, keeping some information from them skews the risk assessment process and yes...I see it as secretive, I think most would.

 

 

 

I don't see it as secrecy, simply what the buyers market here has dictated. Canadian clients expect bb daty and many take convincing to actually use a dental dam. Here in Ottawa I have only had one client request the use of a dam before we've met in the last decade. I can't speak for other providers but that indicates to me that it just isn't that genuine a concern for most hobbyists. Unless of course it goes wrong as this thread has indicated.

 

I'm going to clarify something that seems to have escaped some. How often does a provider insist a client go down on her? Think about it. Daty is performed for the client, not the provider during a first, second or even a third apptointment. I have yet to meet a provider that says "My guys have to go down on me." Most of the providers in my circle would prefer not to have guys perform daty until there is some connection and trust. In my experience, a woman has to be able to relax in order to enjoy it which seldom happens at the onset of this dynamic and I also believe it should only happen at her request. I consider daty a consumer driven service when it's listed on a menu and often an appointment will hinge on whether or not it's provided; many men decline when they are told it's safe service only. If there was genuine risk management going on, clients would realize the chance of menses and the dam would be requested regardless of whether or not a provider admits to being on her cycle or not.

 

To me this is a case of having your cake and eating it too. From a practical standpoint I simply don't see it going both ways. If you want unprotected daty, then you assume the worst possible risk is present and accept it or you use protection. Until there are legislated health and safety practices in place (which most of the industry seems resistant to according to the bbbj thread), the fact remains that a man never knows what is happening in his providers reproductive organs and the onus is on him if he wants to perform orally. If daty is that important to him, he should insist that precautions are used or accept the consequences of his decision if the results are less than he desired. Anything else is simply abdicating responsibility...

 

cat

[Ryan1967 1092]

Thanks for ruining daty for me... :). I am joking of course (partly), but I did not realize that most SP's have no interest in that activity whatsoever and do it mostly due to market demand, thanks for enlightening me. I do understand that you are interested in promoting the use of dental dams as I seem to remember other threads where that drum had been banged before.

 

As for having cake and eating it too...you are obviously entitled to your perspective, but I see it a bit differently. If risk is changed from the baseline (which you admitted that a menstrual cycle does) a provider has a choice to accept the risk and hope nothing goes wrong or disclose the situation to their clients (or of course not work on those days). I would of course prefer the latter and you seem to prefer the former. I see the latter as open and honest communcation, whereas you seem to prefer a "datyer beware" approach. As I said earlier in this thread...this has been useful and educational.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I replied once, and have not since...

But with Nominating Cat's post, I feel it is time to speak up again.

 

It is a tricky subject, sensitive in nature for both participants.

 

Perhaps this lady was new, with no guidance to rely on? Maybe she simply was hoping that this apt would be fine, if no fingers were used, or maybe she felt she was almost finished so therefore she did not expect to start another heavy flo?

 

Regardless.....this can also happen with no notice at all! For myself, I have had a week and sometimes 2 week difference in my calendar. So would this topic be different? Not too sure!

 

If I was touring, and I spent 1400.00 on flight and hotel, and my time started a week early.....well guess what, suck it up buttercup! I have to get home, pay for my location. I have no way to say 100% if I will start, when, how heavy or light, but one thing I am sure of, is my flight and hotel wont give shit.

HOWEVER, I am experienced, and also would tell my client, I am light and safe, but not good for oral on me, just cause I would be self conscience for odor mishaps.

 

As for health concerns,

the most sever concerns are almost NIL when oxygen hits theses viruses, unless you have an open mouth sore, even then air to virus is least harmful other then no air. SUCH AS...

 

I have had times whereas my client has had health issues to cause blood in condom! Is this chlamydia? or is this " torn tissue?", is this urinary track blockage? Now what if that condom broke? Would I start this thread? NO I WOULD NOT, because if I felt at risk, I would go immediately to emergency room at the hospital and say I may have been at risk. Then would have to deal with the outcome of this.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

Again, I am commenting a little off topic but since this point is being discussed...

 

Thanks for ruining daty for me... :). I am joking of course (partly), but I did not realize that most SP's have no interest in that activity whatsoever and do it mostly due to market demand, thanks for enlightening me...

Ryan, I think it is important not to generalize here; not all SPs offer (unprotected) Daty because of the "market demand". Some of us actually enjoy it and enjoy it a LOT. The same can be said about other sexual activities...

[Ryan1967 1092]

Thanks Gabriella...I did not quote originally, but I was referring to Cat's post:

 

Daty is performed for the client, not the provider

 

Which I believe is where the generalization began. I am relieved to hear that some providers may actually enjoy this activity.

 

Again, I am commenting a little off topic but since this point is being discussed...

 

 

Ryan, I think it is important not to generalize here; not all SPs offer (unprotected) Daty because of the "market demand". Some of us actually enjoy it and enjoy it a LOT. The same can be said about other sexual activities...

[cat 262460]

Reread the second paragraph of my post closely. I qualify every statement I make. I'm not saying women don't enjoy daty, I'm saying that it isn't a required service in our work unless the gent indicates an interest. I also didn't say that providers don't enjoy daty in an appointment ever, I simply gave some general parameters to having that happen organically. Talk about twisting words...

 

What amazes me with this industry is willingness of the participants; both provider and client to tow the balloons and streamers party line at all costs, engage in behaviour then vent publicly or semi-privately when it goes wrong. In this business there are some great aspects, some less than great and some aspects that are truly gross. Sex is messy tho it can be fun if the parties are willing to be adults.

 

I'm not advocating providers not disclose, I'm trying to bring a dose of reality to the discussion that honestly indicates the transient and unregulated nature of this industry and the potential impact that has on the participants health and safety. I think if someone is unwilling to take precautions then they don't have the right to complain. If the OP had used a dental dam, the risk would have been negligible and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead, he chose to engage in an unsafe service. The new to the industry provider was obviously in a difficult position given she was seeing her first client in spite of her monthly and when the mishap occurred, the OP took her fee back then her agency didn't have the decency to back her up. To me, the prevailing attitudes and the entire situation is a travesty...

 

cat

[Ryan1967 1092]

The new to the industry provider was obviously in a difficult position given she was seeing her first client in spite of her monthly and when the mishap occurred, the OP took her fee back then her agency didn't have the decency to back her up. To me, the prevailing attitudes and the entire situation is a travesty...

On this point...we agree! I have not commented on how the OP handled it, which I concur was not acceptable, but I think there are things to be learned, and agree or disagree...I think this thread has served a good purpose (putting the OP and the situation to the side).

I'm not saying women don't enjoy daty,

neither did I...

I'm saying that it isn't a required service in our work unless the gent indicates an interest. I also didn't say that providers don't enjoy daty in an appointment ever, I simply gave some general parameters to having that happen organically. Talk about twisting words...

I never mentioned enjoyment, you inferred that it is performed out of commercial necessity which is what I was commenting on, don't twist my words either!

[cat 262460]

I never mentioned enjoyment, you inferred that it is performed out of commercial necessity which is what I was commenting on, don't twist my words either!

 

I didn't quote you in my last post. This isn't all about you...

 

cat

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

In the interest of transparency, we could develop a quick sheet that both SP's and clients could complete before any meeting takes place. I would prefer that we all take responsibility for our own actions and not bureaucratize this industry too much but, with tongue firmly in cheek, here goes.

 

1. Are you on your Period? If so, do you have a heavy flow and how long does your cycle last?

2. Are you a squirter? Is there any chance you could hit my eye? That's fluid too...

3. How many partners have you had? More partners = more risk and that gives us a right to know.

4. Have you been to West Africa recently, or have you been in contact with someone who has?

 

Guys;

 

1. Items 3 and 4 apply to you as well and we need to verify this beforehand.

2. Are you a premature ejaculator? We don't want a CIM exposure unless we were warned in advance that you have this condition. How often does this happen and how long do you usually last?

3. If you want us to peg you, please complete and provide colonic sheet attached.

4. Please be advised that your showering will be monitored for thoroughness.

5. I notice immodium in your shaving kit. In the interest of safety I think we should reschedule for another time.

 

 

Please let me know if I've missed anything.

 

Everyone feel better now?

[mrgreen760 37785]

The key to anything is communication, whether it be in business, ones social life or relationship. Miscommunication or non-communication is when and where problems are most likely to occur.

 

Better to over communicate than under communicate in my view.

 

Peace

MG

[Brad 49548]

I'm finding the recent discussion interesting, and has made me think about a few of my own assumptions.

 

And I think that's what part of the recent discussion is about...what is a reasonable or standard assumption:

 

a) Should (and "should" is a key word) a fellow be able to assume during DATY that a lady isn't on her period? Or...

b) Should a guy assume whenever he is going down on a lady that it is possible she is on (or could be about to start) her period?

 

I think this in part is where the discussion has evolved, and is a fair and interesting question.

 

For myself, I'm in the "B" camp. Yes, it may be that a the risks increase if a lady is on her period, but menstruation is also a natural, frequently occurring process. It can't be viewed in the same camp as someone not disclosing an STD. It seems to me that just like someone who partakes in greek has to go in (so to speak) knowing there's always the risk of a bit of mess, those of us who love giving daty must do so knowing it's possible she is about to start her period, or on it and using a sponge.

 

Another way of looking at the issue is this: if it's important for a guy to know whether or not a lady is on her period, is the burden of communication on the lady or the gent?

 

I can see arguments both ways. After all, there's plenty of activities we assume won't happen unless a person communicates about it first. Maybe it's true this falls into that group. I'm not so sure, since the rule of thumb generally seems to be that if you have an issue to something fairly common/natural, then the onus is on the person with the issue to bring it up.

 

And "shoulds" aside, it's clear it could happen regardless, so probably better to assume it's a possibility and go in with one's eyes wide open (or at least wearing goggles). :)

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

[Found7 454]

In my opinion, if this is a concern:

1. Ask "is it safe?" (This can actually sound a little playful)

2. Don't do it (DATY that is)

 

For those like me who enjoy it (tremendously), this is not a major issue. If you happen to get the timing wrong, there is usually very little chance of getting a surprise (so to speak) if she is laying on her back. You will likely see it on your fingers (if that's part of it) and you just switch places!! Everyone gets a turn in my world!! ;)

 

All this of course...my humble opinion.

[Guest S****r]

I have just been re-reading and reviewing all the literature on transmissions of STIs and actually, I don't see that an issue of blood versus an issue of vaginal fluid increases the risk. If someone has something that can be transmitted by fluid, it appears it can be equally transmitted though vaginal fluid, blood, semen or cum, pre-cum and saliva. So if she has something infectious than it can be equally transmitted through just her vaginal fluid, which is going directy into your mouth already, as it can be by the blood going into your mouth. So I am not convinced that the RISK is any higher.

 

Now for some, the gross factor may certainly be higher, but.....it appears to me that the risk of transmission is the same, period or not.

 

Therefore, if one's concern about risk outweighs their desire to perform oral, then (as Cat says) using a dental dam is the only way to go, period or no period.

 

That is how the literature all reads to me, anyway.

 

I am so glad my own periods have been done away with!

[Malika Fantasy 144625]

I didn'T want to comment but I am getting a bit work out about some of the response

 

@Cat as much I enjoy you and your wit and intelligence, I have to disagree with you on the daty aspect. This is one of the reason why I don't only do camming or dancing. I LOVE being eat out and having orgasms. I do it for myself because I am greedy in my orgasms. I have actually refuse to repeat with some people in the past because except for penetrations, they refuse to touch my genitals. I need contact with my clitoris to orgasm...so yes for me it is important for me.

 

 

About the periods...OP I am sorry this happen. I can imagine how surprising it was for both people

 

As for people saying an SP should take a few days off each time...maybe. Now, this is me getting into my personal life, but roughly two years ago I change from taking Depo Provera (an injection in the butt each 3 months) to regular birth control as compare to DP (eeh DP lol) was screwing my hormones over too much. When switching I've spotted and bleed for almost 7 weeks straight. There is NO WAY in hell could I have taken this much time off in a row, I've use sponges, didn't tell anyone and as far as I am aware no noticed it.

Nowadays I don't particuarly bleed much during my periods so I don't work during the most heavy flow day but still from time to time will see people in the 4-5 days that I am spotting. Why?

Because I see an average e5 clients A WEEK. If I had to loose 25% of my income, for a maybe small drip of blood, I couldn't afford to keep myself debt free, pay for school and pay for my tattoos addiction.

 

And I guess this is my 0 cents since 0.02$ is rounded down now

[roamingguy 300292]

Well reading, OK continuing to read the thread, I'm rethinking my opinion.

It would be nice for a lady to mention if it was that time of the month to a client. And not prior to an encounter, for him to decide whether to show or not to show. But when the encounter begins, so he can decide if he would like to perform daty as part of the date. But that said, everyone's sexual health is their own business

A lady isn't compelled to answer if she has a STD/STI

A man isn't compelled to answer if he has a STD/STI

So why should a lady be compelled to tell prior to an encounter if it's that time of the month. She shouldn't

There are protections out there to reduce risk be it condoms, dental dams etc. If a man wishes to perform daty use a dental dam

Now I did say it would be nice if she did tell, but she shouldn't feel forced to do so

On a related note, just as a lady shouldn't be compelled to disclosed, neither should a man. I had an encounter with a lady in Ottawa a few years ago. Well in the course of grooming myself down there the day before the date, I cut (well nicked more accurately) myself shaving, at the base of my penis. Even with a condom, a risk of blood exchange, no matter how minute, could possibly happen. I could have said nothing and gone forward with a normal encounter. Or cancelled, denying the lady income for a period of time she set aside for me. Or number three, which is what I did, tell her, and have an encounter that did not include fs or bj, but that didn't mean we didn't have a fulfilling enjoyable encounter

So what is my point of this. No one is required to reveal their sexual health to anyone else, it's their own business. Second, that said, it would be nice to disclose something that may be of concern to their partner. Not obliged to do so, but it would be nice. Third, if there is something of concern, that doesn't mean IMO cancelling the date...it just means the date unfolds differently than expected...and different doesn't mean worse, sometimes different can be equally enjoyable. Finally encounters are about two adults engaging in intimate activities. Part of that is an expectation that everyone is mature, and understands life happens, and can deal maturely with life happening when it throws you a curve. A lady having her period is not the end of the earth. It is a normal fact of life. And both SP/Client can adapt and have an enjoyable memorable encounter if that happens

A long winded rambling

 

RG

[Miss S. Lane 67128]

Further to what Malika said, I have endometriosis and struggled with heavy, prolonged bleeding. After BCP failed, and an IUD also failed... I bled for THREE MONTHS STRAIGHT!!! I bought my fair share of soft cups and worked anyway. It was no big deal. Should I have stayed home for three months with no income?

 

Thankfully I had an ablation and it was the best decision I ever made. No. More. Period. Lol

 

This is a normal part of life!!!

[LeeRichards 177238]

Again, I am commenting a little off topic but since this point is being discussed...

 

 

Ryan, I think it is important not to generalize here; not all SPs offer (unprotected) Daty because of the "market demand". Some of us actually enjoy it and enjoy it a LOT. The same can be said about other sexual activities...

 

So Gabby. when I break this paragraph down. ????? I highlighted the ....... Ahhhh nevermind. Wanna skip out on work Red and do and extended "Lunch" thing ? ;) Dine with some fine wine ? and dine some more ?

 

Silly me. Wups Hijack. Carry on with the regular scheduled programming............

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Thank you ladies for sharing your stories. I can read that there has been some struggles for you guys. It is definitely insensitive to expect someone to take a full three months off. These are also very personal situations and I could see you wanting to keep this information to yourself. It would put someone in a difficult place to have to explain why they are using a sponge.

 

I have used sponges before, after informing my client(s) and I have never had any problems... I still take the honesty stance, however, I have a regular period and can even use one of those calendars to know when it's coming.

 

This is a classic example of how and why each escort runs her/his business in the way that best suites them. The way I would handle a situation is completely different than the person next to me and that's fine. Usually with a little bit of an explanation, things start to make sense and that's why I'm happy this conversation has evolved the way it has.

 

Maybe a little communication can help if something happens. If something happens and you're bothered, you can tell the escort politely face to face, or through pm. Perhaps, the escort would feel more inclined to rectify a situation if it was dealt with properly.

[Ryan1967 1092]

I have just been re-reading and reviewing all the literature on transmissions of STIs and actually, I don't see that an issue of blood versus an issue of vaginal fluid increases the risk. If someone has something that can be transmitted by fluid, it appears it can be equally transmitted though vaginal fluid, blood, semen or cum, pre-cum and saliva. So if she has something infectious than it can be equally transmitted through just her vaginal fluid, which is going directy into your mouth already, as it can be by the blood going into your mouth. So I am not convinced that the RISK is any higher.

 

Some pathogens (HIV, Hepatitis, etc.) are only transmitted by blood. For those, the risks are definitely higher for both parties during menstruation.

 

Therefore, if one's concern about risk outweighs their desire to perform oral, then (as Cat says) using a dental dam is the only way to go, period or no period.

 

It is not that black and white...Hobbiests that research risks understand the risks of daty, I have yet to see a table that shows daty both during and not during menstrual cycles and the relative risks. On top of that, there are some that feel that there should not be any disclosure of the cycle, so now the hobbiest is being asked to assume that all SP are always on their cycle. Put that altogether...I'm out of this hobby.

[Guest Cr**gCa***ng]

I would like to sincerely thank my CERB sisters for the education on this matter as I have learned a lot from this discussion and from the open candor of the ladies who were kind enough to share their experience. Lots of hugs to you for this!! Thank-you. :)

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Some pathogens (HIV, Hepatitis, etc.) are only transmitted by blood. For those, the risks are definitely higher for both parties during menstruation.

 

 

 

It is not that black and white...Hobbiests that research risks understand the risks of daty, I have yet to see a table that shows daty both during and not during menstrual cycles and the relative risks. On top of that, there are some that feel that there should not be any disclosure of the cycle, so now the hobbiest is being asked to assume that all SP are always on their cycle. Put that altogether...I'm out of this hobby.

 

Ryan1967, if you're concerned about HIV, Hepatitis, etc., instead of requiring her to disclose her period cycle why don't you just ask if she has these or other transmittable infections? Would you rely 100% on her answer? Should she rely 100% on the clients clean health statements and allow bbfs? Or, would it be better for us to take responsibility for our own health? Communication is good but as I said in my earlier post, do we need to start filling out some full disclosure form on both sides? To what end, since you may not know you have an STI for 100% certain and she may not know if her period could start.

 

Assume the worst and act accordingly. If people can't handle that reality, maybe they should rethink their participation in this lifestyle.

 

I personally think this health concern is a red herring and this is just some guys grossed out by blood. Otherwise, how do you reconcile the above.

It also smacks a bit of misogyny or shaming, this wanting to force women to disclose their periods. If guys bled I think there would be some very different opinions here.

[Ryan1967 1092]

Ryan1967, if you're concerned about HIV, Hepatitis, etc., instead of requiring her to disclose her period cycle why don't you just ask if she has these or other transmittable infections? Would you rely 100% on her answer? Should she rely 100% on the clients clean health statements and allow bbfs? Or, would it be better for us to take responsibility for our own health? Communication is good but as I said in my earlier post, do we need to start filling out some full disclosure form on both sides? To what end, since you may not know you have an STI for 100% certain and she may not know if her period could start.

 

I am obviously not making myself clear...blood borne pathogens are the usually the most deadly/nasty...so yes, I am concerned about those...I hope everyone is. Performing daty on a woman who is not on her cycle carries virtually no risk of contracting any of those, unless under extreme circumstances. I had (incorrectly) assumed that most providers would not work for 4 days out of 28, but as many have stated, there could be longer periods of spotting and work is often a necessity. Working during the cycle changes the risk profile from the baseline, seems pretty obvious to me.

I personally think this health concern is a red herring and this is just some guys grossed out by blood. Otherwise, how do you reconcile the above.

I disagree, it is not a red herring agree that the OP was grossed out by the blood, but the dialog has evolved into a health risk, which I think is genuine, you can choose to disagree with me.

It also smacks a bit of misogyny or shaming,

wow...conclusion jump much?

[Jasmine Rain 23126]

I think that all of us are and can be sensitive to the other person, however I still have to say that offering sexual services while using a sponge and NOT telling your partner/lover/friend is not allowing them the choice. That to me personally is voiding informed consent. I don't think anyone would be as passive about that if the gender roles were reversed.

 

We are women and we get our periods monthly. We know this. We should prepare for this. That would also mean to me personally, budgeting my income cash flow with my out going expense.

 

I understand that some feel they can not do this. Some are not aware of what options they have in financial planning and we never know the bills of someone else so who are we to say. I understand that not everyone has the same business sense as me and I completely understand that while I have the advantage of working or not working at this point in my life, others do not. I am 38 and can fully retire. From every line of work. I am a rare breed in this regard. I accept this and do not preach.

 

However, I worked extremely hard to get where I am. I am not in some luxury status now. I worked extremely hard, sacrificed a lot and now can enjoy the benefit of it. Being that escorting is generally a cash business, I can see how managing that money can be difficult but not impossible. There are many financial planning tricks that would work so much better for a companion. Things that would grant her the ability to take time off during regular menstruation but even more importantly, it would give her more freedom and control over her business. Something that I think all women should look into and not just because of this sponge/period issue. This industry does not, under any circumstances, have to be feast or famine. It can be very much different and I strongly encourage all ladies to look into proper financial planning to ensure that you never have to feel that feast or famine feeling.

 

Having said all that, I really can't help but think of the men who have, for a variety of different reasons, issue with sex while a woman is on her menses. This would go for any woman in his life, including his wife. We are not talking about when "accidents" happen. I also fully agree that tact and respect when these accidents happen however is a must. However some of the comments from the ladies regarding her right to work trumping a mans right to informed consent to sexual services is a little shocking to say the least.

 

I know I am the new comer here, but I can not support the idea of "he didn't notice, so I am all good". That does not work for me regardless of the gender role of the person or the issue that person might be having. Informed consent should be in my opinion the TOP priority when rolling in the sheets with anyone. Client or civilian lover.

[waterat 20911]

hobbyist is being asked to assume that all SP are always on their cycle. Put that altogether...I'm out of this hobby.

 

Well that is your choice. All the best. Be aware that the health risks are likely as great or greater with the 'bar scene'. Abstinence or a (non?)monogamous SO might prove safer!

[roamingguy 300292]

This lifestyle has a certain degree of risk. But as has been said before, everyone's sexual health is their own business.

When you are intimate with someone in a poly amorous lifestyle, which this is, it is accepted that a risk exists. If a client chooses to proceed with an encounter with a lady, any lady, he is accepting a certain degree of risk. Likewise a lady, if she agrees to see a client, accepts a certain degree of risk too

The argument of health risk here is a red herring. Each and every time a SP/Client engage in an encounter, irrespective of what menu items are performed, has a potential risk. Condoms and dental dams are risk reduction, not risk elimination. If a client truly, and truly believes in the risk of performing daty, simple solution, don't. Likewise, in the same vein, then show the same courtesy to a lady, and never ask for a bbbj.

But really, if risk of STD/STI is a real concern, notwithstanding using condoms/dental dams, then perhaps one should re-think his/her participation in this lifestyle. Safer options are out there. Like an exclusive monogamous relationship with one partner. A partner who is willing to share her cycle with you. Or, and not being glib, masturbation

This lifestyle is about risk/rewards. The risks, well for both lady and gentleman, STD/STI, being ripped off, assaults...well the bad side of this lifestyle has been discussed elsewhere on CERB. The rewards. For the ladies, a source of income, a livelihood for them. For the gentlemen, an escape, pleasure, companionship.

So if you want to stay absolutely risk free, this isn't the lifestyle for it

But if you want to reduce your risks, choose not to perform certain acts, or use dental dams

But a lady, while it would be nice if she did let a client know, is under no obligation to let a client know her sexual health...because her sexual health, as is everyone's, ladies and gentlemen alike, is private and her own responsibility

 

A rambling

 

RG