Anticipated changes due to Bill C-36

[Guest S****r]

As Bill C-36 has been making its way through the legislative process, there has been lots of chatter amongst SPs about how/what we will need to do differently after Royal Assent to keep both you, the clients, and ourselves, as providers, safe from prosecution. In this spirit, we will post here how we see ourselves operating once the bill is law.

 

Keeping in mind that each independent SP operates her business in her own way as she sees fit, what follows is some of the main changes that you can expect many, if not most, providers will make. Others will be adding their anticipated changes throughout the rest of this thread. Just remember, the changes are being made in an attempt to minimize the chances of you (and us) having trouble with the law.

 

1. Most will no longer be listing specific sexual services in our ads. What you will see is the sale of time for companionship. You will then have to read between the lines. But there will likely be no more references to dfk, oral, bbbj, greek, DT, rimming, etc.

 

2. In order to prevent any paper or electronic trail that could be used against a client, most will no longer discuss, by written communication of any form (PM, email, text) specific services ahead of time. This makes many of us uncomfortable also, as we may both (client and SP) be leery of the client and the SP having differing expectations for the encounter. Nonetheless, this seems the wisest thing to do.

 

3. Specifics of the legalities of advertising are still somewhat unclear, i.e. will sites that host escort websites or media that displays ads for escorts still be able to do so, even if we are advertising only our own selves? If we need to move our websites to offshore hosts, this may take some time, so you may find it more difficult to find ads for reputable escorts for at least some time. So it is advised that you take down notes NOW on your favourite SP or those you are planning to see in the event that this delay happens.

 

4. It seems to me that visiting an unknown SP will be the riskiest move for clients. Personally, I expect Law Enforcement will set up fake SP ads and then quickly and easily arrest a client when he shows up for his anticipated appointment. Therefore, I advise that you be very hesitant to book anyone that you don't know for sure is real. I advise you stick with known, established providers. That is my personal opinion.

 

Prostitution has always been here, and will not be wiped out now either, but we will need to operate a little differently in order to prevent legal troubles.

 

Other SPs, please feel free to post your upcoming anticipated changes and advice, also.

[Guest]

I'm sad to say that I will have to remove my blog (I've worked so hard on this) and I'm even thinking of removing my website (I've worked hard on this too). I will have to say that my time is for my companionship only. I do not discuss things over the phone already, so that's not a problem.

 

The thing that bothers me is I feel like part of my freedom of expression will be taken away, once this bill passes. I like to help my clients with my blog and I like to have the creativity to express myself and paint a picture of who I am, it attracts the right clients for me. I now feel like we are all going to be the same, in regards to advertising. Terms like GFE, PSE, ect, will be out the window.

 

Perhaps, it's time to get our creative juices going but until things are clear, it's best to be safe than sorry.

 

I'd also like to read what others have to say about this.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I have discussed my changes in this thread...

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=636766#post636766

 

Reading our sites before making contact is going to more important than ever. So we can eliminate the need to communicate.

 

Changing from .ca to .com maybe wise to do as well.

 

Also, us established ladies may want to extend a helping hand to any NEW providers if we have met them and spent time with them to use us as an industry reference to our hobbyist. So that they are known and trusted.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

I'm sad to say that I will have to remove my blog (I've worked so hard on this) and I'm even thinking of removing my website (I've worked hard on this too). I will have to say that my time is for my companionship only. I do not discuss things over the phone already, so that's not a problem.

Unless I've misread the bill or not understanding it at all, I am confused as to why you would need to take down your blog and website.

 

Additional Comments:

I contacted the Pivot Legal Society earlier today to see if they would produce another publication like the one they published back in July this year. Hopefully, it's in the plans.

[Guest]

Unless I've misread the bill or not understanding it at all, I am confused as to why you would need to take down your blog and website.

 

From what I understand is that any type of perks exchanged for sex is a no, no and advertising it is a no, no too. (I could be misunderstanding this). I could probably keep my website if I changed a few words, for example gfe to companion. However, since my blogs are explicitly about the sex industry, they have to go. Can you please elaborate about your understanding of things, rather than just quoting me and asking me to explain myself? I would find that very helpful and maybe others would too.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Peachy, we are allowed to advertise our services. However, the third party companies are not.

 

Your blogs are your expression of you. From what I've read, your blogs are not specifying a service for a dollar amount.

 

I could be a slut giving it away for free telling the world. They can't stop that.

 

If you want to keep your blogs - do so. Just keep mention of money out.

 

Don't say I will give a bj and full service (example) for $xxx.

 

The specific ads though keep that neutral.

 

You could also make it a member only private section.

 

Up to you.

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice Meaghan. This is confusing and scary times for most in the industry. I do like the idea of the members only section for the blogs. It's great that people like Summer post threads like this, so we can discuss things a bit and get on the same page. I'm sure I'm not the only person confused and unsure about this bill.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

You are welcome peachy.

 

For myself, I am no longer advertising any sexual services. Not because I am afraid for myself, but to protect my clients. I will also not answer any questions about my services. I will kindly explain to my inquiry that by asking me, they are on fact breaking the law.

 

If they can't read between the lines then I can't really help them.

 

I look at this legislation as a way of running my business the way I want to now. Clients will no longer calling the shots. I am in control now. I am relieved I no longer have to say yes I will do xxx for $xxx. Can clients really understand what it feels like to promise a service to someone I have never met before? I've never promised a service and not provided it. However, there are some that push and maybe their hygiene sucks. So no more advance promises.

 

I will be using stories and songs to help those who want to understand the type of encounter they will experience. Currently, I am advertising as a hot mistress. No one sees a mistress as companionship alone. Sex is implied. Just not openly stated.

 

Read between the lines. I'm still providing the same services. Just advertising it differently.

[fortunateone 156618]

i'm just going to copy some things i've posted elsewhere.

 

 

I've never posted any rates or services in any ads, I've always just made them phone me. I also will never provide any info in emails, i.e. nothing is available in writing to anyone. They do have to phone me for info, and to book appts. I find the whole email thing too anonymous, and while people can change or spoof their phone #s, the vast majority of clients are not doing that. Also, it is an obvious paper trail that they do not require a warrant to get. Recording phone conversations without a warrant, not so much, so there would be no written or recorded record of you telling people what you do.

 

I mean what are the chances of that level of investigation into the clients of independent sps who do not work incalls out of hotel rooms, and are actually difficult to access, so their clients are equally difficult to access. Keep in mind, the sp is never ever doing anything wrong, whether it is asking for payment, or advertising a full menu of services. apparently.

 

(Allowing people to use payphones is also helpful, since LE is not going to call you on an obvious payphone to ask about your info )

 

 

If an sp never posted rates/services, and never got into details on emails or texting or anything else, then she/he doesn't have to change anything that they currently do. If she/he always posted everything, and also got ticked off because guys call and ask questions, she/he is going to be at a bit of a disadvantage.

 

Keep in mind most of our online advertising options are not based in Canada. We can continue to post whatever we want to post on those ads, or at least, within the limits and conditions set up by the advertising site. Reading ads will not get clients in trouble. Using the online contact and/or email options within those ads, that sets up the paper trail.

 

I would advise sps to post phone #s, not to require email/contact from clients to get the phone #s. REquiring email contact is initiating that paper trail. Leaving it to phone calls does not, other than an untraced and unrecorded record that a call was made. proves absolutely nothing.

 

For clients, use google extensively. When you see an ad by any sp on any site, google points from the ad in order to search the sp. You are looking for multiple ads on multiple sites. You are looking for history. You are looking for ads by that sp on that same site as well., What you do not want to see is one single ad on one single site.

 

I am advising sps to ensure that on sites where they post multiple ads, that they ensure whatever box needs to be ticked to show all their ads they have on the site is ticked off. i'm suggesting to start telling guys who contact them to call them from a payphone. I'd go further and say go out and find out what the numbers are on the payphones and the locations so you can tell them where to go.

 

Basically you aren't trying to avoid LE contact as an sp, you are trying to send the signals to potential clients that you are not LE. The more hoops you, as a client have to jump thru, the less likely you are contacting LE with a fake sp. LE in other words, is going to make it super easy to get all the info and the booking in one phone call. Legit sps are going to make you work for the appt, including making you call 3 times before you can knock on the door.

 

Clients should also be looking for a website as well. Let's face it, what LE is not going to do: NOT going to create a website for their fake sp, NOT going to pay for multiple ads on one site, because they have to change up who that fake sp is. They are not going to post ads for sps over 25, or over ideal weight, or even ethnic ads. REsearch kind of shows that the most popular ads are for slender, busty, 20 year old blondes. LE is going to set up fake ads to fill that higher demand, and ensure the ads are attractive, and you know what that means. This buxom beauty does everything under the sun at 150/hr, 80 for the half.

 

TGTBT takes on new meaning.

[mrgreen760 37785]

Wow! Hoops indeed.

 

Peace

MG

[fortunateone 156618]

Wow! Hoops indeed.

 

Peace

MG

 

 

 

Usually legit sps are always trying to send signals to the potential clients to show that they are not TGTBT. They do this in the quality of the ad, in not using graphic photos and hard to read symbols instead of real words in ad titles, in their rates, ensuring the rate is on par with other sps offering similar experiences, and so on. It is then up to the clients to learn to read the signs, and avoid the red flags.

 

It will be no different in the future, trying to ensure that you are contacting a real sp and not a fake LE sting ad. That is pretty much the only way an incall client is going to get into any sort of trouble.

 

But again, and posted elsewhere, you are all currently breaking the bawdy house law each and everytime you do an incall with an sp who provides incalls. Has anyone recently been arrested or victim of an LE set up and charged with this?

 

OK, then expect the same kind of thing to happen with C36, in other words potentially absolutely nothing.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

Personally, I do not list my rates on my website. There is a private section there with a password that you have to request to view detailed list of services and rates. I have listed my rates on Cerb with services but I don't like posting them on any other sites I advertise on.

 

Once this law comes into effect, I will not be posting my services anymore in the private section. Currently I don't use email. I go solely on my intuition, talk to the person for a few minutes and it has served me well. I will not be texting anymore. The person will have to call me directly.

 

I will tell the client in different terms what they can expect but it won't be that of an explicit sexual nature. However, I will not walk into an appt completely blind either. I do not want a client to expect something that I don't offer. I don't need those problems.

 

For example I will say "I'm available to travel around the world twice in 45 mins or an hour but I don't travel to Greece." "I don't mind if you visit me in the Netherland regions." You get the idea and there are many clever ways to go about it. Perhaps I will write an erotic short story with a link to enhance the idea but you won't catch me discussing explicit services directly over the phone. I can be creative about it.

 

There are ways to read between the lines and use non-explicit language to describe things. I'm sure many ladies won't be listing or discussing services with the use of acronyms anymore even though technically we are allowed to. I would just prefer to keep things discrete for myself and my clients.

 

My website is very tasteful at the moment and I plan to keep it that way. Most potential clients will be able to distinguish who is legitimate and reputable along with an established history as opposed to the fly by nights and the bait and switch. They are definitely going to have a more difficult time in the future. New providers will also have a difficult time.

 

Perhaps a thread needs to be started about replacing acronyms with different phrases that will not be as explicit.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I will continue my txt, but it will be mainly used for " please visit my site for all your questions, but if you still need more info please voice call me"

Or It will be, " yes I have an hour free, do you want to visit now?" The way my screening goes, they HAVE to voice call anyways for my location, so at that time is when they can ask finer details or rates as well.

 

Rates will be in voice call, but is on my site as entertainment and massage packages. Which you are booking for time. But will stress on phone as well, all money transaction is for time spent.

[fortunateone 156618]

i always thought prior to the internet etc, when everyone started assuming acronyms were ok to post, that the sps used to use half hour and hour and bodyrub to be the code words. Someone mentioned once 'half and half' which i didn't know what that was supposed to stand for lol. (apparently bj with FS, because you had to negotiate to get both in one session without paying for an extra session)

 

So bodyrub (ie. hj or at least non FS) is the starting rate, and half hour is bj no FS, and hour is FS. In the past of course, and which probably led to many misunderstandings, no one actually provided or received those times discussed. if a half hour means bj, it meant you pay the 'half hour' rate and get a bj, and sp leaves or you do, when that is done. usually within a half hour of real time.

 

so body rub = 100 = 1/2 hr massage with hj

'half hour" = 150 = 1/hr bj session (with or without massage)

'hour' = 250 = 1/2 hr (or up to the hour) FS session (with or without GFE services)

 

And clients may have to say good bye to the idea of an actual half hour or hour in real time? or that would be the face to face information given at the time.

 

And further to my LE assumptions, i am going to assume that LE is going to post explicit ads and have explicit conversations, because that is also going to attract more potential clients to the door. If most sps are not providing the info prior to meeting, then any sp who does provide the info is going to be more attractive to book with. So LE more likely to give out all necessary info to get the person to show up and hand over the $$

 

 

And again, assuming that LE is even going to bother to do any sort of stings of this nature. which I doubt, except in certain cities. I believe Hamilton wil absolutely do it, and often, and Vancouver will absolutely never ever do it. Different cities have different enforcement policies, and VPD has a very very long tradition of leaving the indoor incall indy sps alone. Discouraging the indoor trade's clients does not seem to be something that they would do, based on their recently published 'do not harm' policy that all LE is expected to follow when dealing with sex workers.

 

Saskatoon probably will do nothing, same with Edmonton, mostly because it would jeopardize their cash flow with the required business licenses for adult entertainers. :)

[Kate von Katz 49953]

But again, and posted elsewhere, you are all currently breaking the bawdy house law each and everytime you do an incall with an sp who provides incalls. Has anyone recently been arrested or victim of an LE set up and charged with this?

 

OK, then expect the same kind of thing to happen with C36, in other words potentially absolutely nothing.

 

This is precisely my approach. Ladies who operate discreetly and professionally have never been on LE's radar. Especially in certain areas of the country where the municipalities take a much more liberal and friendly view of ladies in the industry.

 

We will see the most adversity in our advertising venues. Those will be restricted, but as Meaghan pointed out: this gives ladies the advantage of no longer catering to the clients who insist on a menu list and is a great opportunity for all of us to up the class level of the industry. Ladies will advertise as ladies, not a McMenu and clients will have to have a bit more tact and eloquence when contacting ladies.

 

Many will dislike this shift as some are more focused on specific services and ladies will be much more reluctant or outright refuse to discuss any particulars of what happens during their time with a client, but I think overall this could be a very good shift. And I like to think of it this way: by removing the menu, we are reducing the probability of a client having a sort of script in his head of how he envisions his encounter to play out. While it's natural to have a scenario of how we hope things will be in our heads, it can actually hinder a great time. Not always, but you know the saying that expectations are preconceived resentments. There rings some truth in that.

[mod 135639]

We will not be able to allow any known fs prostitutes to advertise here once this changes to law. This means that any ladies who wish to post on cerb can not be fs prostitutes or offer sexual services.

 

We can still allow massage, dancers, fetish providers and escorts but only escorts who do not provide sexual services. Anyone offering services on websites off cerb that advertises fs activities will not be permitted to post here either. Any known fs prostitute will not be permitted to advertise on cerb so anyone thinking they will just send guys to their website for fs details sorry but those ladies will not be permitted to use cerb either. under this new law. Only non fs escorts, massage, fetish, etc will be able to be here. Same deal as the usa has in most areas.

 

We would not be able to offer advertising or membership here to anyone who offers sex for money. If you are a know prostitute i am afraid this law would make it illegal for us to allow you to post ads here. I suggest you look at offering massage, non sexual fetishes, exotic dancing, escort services that do not include anything beyond time and companionship in a non sexual way.

 

Anyone currently offering these services should consider a change in career to make all the conservative suits who bullied this law in happy and proud they stopped you from doing what you want to do. I say throw in the towel and just switch careers so you can continue to advertise here but just stop offering sex as part of your services.

 

becoming non fs escorts will allow the guys to continue to see you legally (you cant have sex with them for money but at least you can spend some nice time withe them .... talking and playing board games... I here rummy is fun)

 

I am sure many guys would like to just spend some private time with you behind closed doors or out on the town. Your time is still valuable so whatever you choose to do other then sex you can still advertise here. Sorry but anyone who wishes to remain a prostitute can no longer be part of the site and if you wish i can close your account for you if you wish. The law does say if we (site managers) are aware of any prostitutes who are advertising the we would be breaking the law. I dont know any of you personally or know what you do behind closed doors, the only way i will know is if you advertise it.

 

Any one who advertises prostitution services on or off cerb will not be able to advertise here (including profile). It will be the law and i must follow it.

 

Also who told the government that they have any right in policing the internet? The internet is not a physical place (and in our case our servers are in another country).

 

I cant imagine they have any right to tell us what we can and can not do is cyberspace.

 

If your doing something like downloading or uploading illegal movies, music or pornography that is a different story as those files are being downloaded to a persons personal computer or distributed from a persons computer but looking at text on the internet from a server located in another country.... Better go after google and all other search engines as they will still be advertising escorts too.

 

Sorry but i cant see the government or law having any right to tell me what i can discuss view or post on a website (especially one located in another country). Sorry i dont think any judge in any canadian court of law would be ok with this.

 

Lets just try to take more freedoms from canadians... democratic.. conservative majority? communist ? Please tell me whats the difference and why did we fight for our freedoms to have so many taken from us? Hmmm... I see a revolution if the future of canada cause us canadians will take it to a certain point (as we are pretty passive) but we have a point where you push too far.

 

Sorry ladies, the government says i wont be able to advertise prostitution here so anyone who wishes to offer such things once this law passes must not advertise here anymore... If you want to offer massage, fetish, dancing or just escort (date people) and be compensated for your time (no sex please) then i guess its ok to post here but please no fs advertisers once the law passes so if you dont want to change your career then we will have to part ways. :(

 

Cerb will remain as a discussion site for non fs escorts, massage, fetish, and exotic dancers and clubs. The sp section will remain open for non fs escorts cause if your still going out on non fs dates with customers then you still need a way to help protect yourselves and each other from any bad people. The fs advertising ares will be closed and we will open a escort section for those offering escorting (paid companionship that does not include sex services)

 

We must comply with the laws i guess. Welcome to america!

[Guest S****r]

Just for clarification, mod,

 

1. What about those who trade in prostitution for escorting, but may still have old ads from former times floating around cyberspace just because things often never die in cyberspace?

 

2. and those ladies who choose to remain a prostitute but add escorting as a secondary business option will not be allowed to advertise their escorting on cerb if they are advertising prostitution on other platforms, such as websites hosted offshore?

 

We appreciate your attention to detail.

[mod 135639]

Just for clarification, mod,

 

1. What about those who trade in prostitution for escorting, but may still have old ads from former times floating around cyberspace just because things often never die in cyberspace?

 

2. and those ladies who choose to remain a prostitute but add escorting as a secondary business option will not be allowed to advertise their escorting on cerb if they are advertising prostitution on other platforms, such as websites hosted offshore?

 

We appreciate your attention to detail.

 

1) those ladies should have a disclaimer that due to laws you no longer offer prostitution related services.

 

2) Any known prostitute can not advertise here (even if they do not list it here as a service here on cerb) for instance if on the ladies personal website it claims prostitution or services in such are available.... And i was made aware of this i would need to delete all the ladies posts and profile here. That lady is considered a known prostitute and would not be able to post an ad here under any category of any kind. Even if that website was located in timbuktoo.

 

Yes, it sucks but if we want to keep our community alive here we will need to try to follow this stupid law

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

Thank-you Mod for this most recent update on the direction this site will take and its clarifications.

 

A few questions...

 

What about the ladies that have advertised here with their past posts indicating their services? You mentioned that a new non fs section will be created so every past post an SP made that was published on this site that may have included anything sexual will be deleted? Correct?

 

And when will be the deadline for us to start to advertising these disclaimers in our ads and on our website despite the fact that it isn't law yet but will be by the end of the year?

 

As for "non-fs SPs", what will be the guidelines for pictures that will be posted here and how the SP shall appear in them? What about topless photos?

[Emma Alexandra 123367]

This is going to be a pain in the butt for all of us.

[roamingguy 300292]

Past posts (pre C36) shouldn't, (and I'm neither a lawyer nor do I run CERB LOL)be at issue. There were no laws broken at that time, so why the need to remove those posts?

Something else that likely needs to be changed on CERB is the recommendation template, no checklist of services a lady offered/provided. And posters must ensure their reco's don't breech C36 law...maybe recos have a moderation period before getting posted

Anyhow, a late night rambling before bedtime

 

F*uck C36 Peter MacKay , Stephen Harper and the CPC suck!!!

 

RG

[mod 135639]

Council and the mods are discussing it as well as the owners of the site. When it becomes law will be when changes are made. Some may change before as well just to prepare,

[kerrixoxo 33719]

We will not be able to allow any known fs prostitutes to advertise here once this changes to law. This means that any ladies who wish to post on cerb can not be fs prostitutes or offer sexual services.

 

We can still allow massage, dancers, fetish providers and escorts but only escorts who do not provide sexual services. Anyone offering services on websites off cerb that advertises fs activities will not be permitted to post here either. Any known fs prostitute will not be permitted to advertise on cerb so anyone thinking they will just send guys to their website for fs details sorry but those ladies will not be permitted to use cerb either. under this new law. Only non fs escorts, massage, fetish, etc will be able to be here. Same deal as the usa has in most areas.

 

We would not be able to offer advertising or membership here to anyone who offers sex for money. If you are a know prostitute i am afraid this law would make it illegal for us to allow you to post ads here. I suggest you look at offering massage, non sexual fetishes, exotic dancing, escort services that do not include anything beyond time and companionship in a non sexual way.

 

We have to remember, America didn't abolish prostitution. It is still thriving. So on one hand it isn't a bad thing. In the states, clients do abide by the reference/screening process. I recommend clients join verification sites ASAP. I like preferred 411. On the other hand, it does create a huge hassle for providers and clients alike.

 

As per your comments regarding full service providers, the definition of a prostitute isn't someone who offers full service sex for money. In fact, the Bill doesn't even define who a prostitute is. The latest interpretation is in the DOJ's technical paper (http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/protect/p1.html). I understand where you are coming from with having to protect CERB's interests and everyone's interests. The Bill refers to the "selling of sexual services" which isn't necessarily full-service. It could mean fetish, clubs/dancers. The DOJ paper also refers to strip clubs, escort agencies, etc as participating in creating the demand for sexual services which the Bill seeks to abolish; hence, the end demand approach. So even if you discuss clubs/dancers and all other sexual services that are provided by others, then that could also be interpreted as criminal. I don't want to disagree with CERB's policies because CERB is free to choose how they operate. However, I wanted to make the above points in light of this policy change.

 

I think that providers should be encouraged to remove all explicit materials from their websites and should seek to encourage reference/screening/verification processes.

[mod 135639]

Right now the police do not charge massage spas, gentlemans clubs or non fs fetish providers under the existing protitution laws unless found that the ladies are giving bj's or sexual intercourse (oral or anal) for money exchange .... so we are using that as the guideline (as that is how the police currently uphold the current laws and interperate the definition of a prostitute or prostitution).

 

I think (hope) the police will focus on the problem areas (street prostitution, street johns and pimps, etc) before focusing on the ladies here who do this bepcause they want to ... not because they have to or are being exploited.

 

They (the police) know where the bad stuff exists, they have dealt with the ladies and sites like us for years now. By know they know cerb is here to help the ladies and place a positive spin on the industry. Were not bad people trying to exploit anyone here and i am sure the police know this, with all this new power i would hope they go after the bad apples.

 

I dont want the site to close so whatever we have to do to make sure cerb is legal we will do as we dont want to give anyone a chance to accuse us of anything.

[Ice4fun 78407]

Wait a minute.... are you telling me that there are ladies on this site selling sexual services... i never new that i have met many ladies from her and spent hours and hours in their company... we have discussed sex... our wildest fantasies... things we imagine would happen in a country which allowed prostitution but god forbid we even act upon those urges... i think many of you may have misunderstood what happens... this is just a discussion board... bookings with cerb ladies are just field trips for more discussion... not for sex... after all we are not perverts.

 

Like the other upstanding law abiding moral countries that provide leadership in the world we don't have prostitution in canda... you know similar to the way Iran and Russia don't have gay people.

 

Now if you will excuse me i have to leave and go to my optician to get fitted for my rose coloured glasses.

 

Just my opinion