Reclaiming Feminism?

[oldblueeyez 15475]

"It's a woman's body to do with it as she chooses!" So why does this apply to abortion and not SPing? I've always found that quite hypocritical.

 

Anyway, there's a movement called Men Going Their Own Way, in which men simply give up on relationships with women and do their own thing, and when manly needs arise they pursue this hobby, or travel abroad to well known "affection destinations", or whatever. Some men, after getting gutted by Divorce and Family courts and false abuse claims, feel the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction and have removed themselves from all the drama. It seems to be a covert rebellion.

 

 

"if the word feminist has been hijacked by extremists?"

 

You don't say! :P

 

[Ice4fun 78407]

Unfortunately people with extreme views both right wing or left often tend to take sound middle of the road ideas and misrepresent them as the domain of their idiotic extreme views.

 

For me and I think that for many Canadians my age (54) the feminist movement was a social movement started to address the glaring inequality that existed between men and women. Most men I think support the gains that have been made in women's rights and recognize that there are still issues to be addressed.

 

I am the father of two amazing women who I have raised to be strong and independent and not to "need" the support or protection of any man. They know they can be or do anything they set their mind to they I think are the ideal that I understood the feminist movement was shooting for. But while strong and independent my daughters will continue to stand up for everyones human rights including women's right to equality.

 

The men haters just like the right wing conservative moral crusaders who wrap them selves in the women's rights movement as a way to force their values on others will only win if they get to influence the minds of the next generation but they are losing that battle... they are in the last gasps of their existence as evidenced by their futile attempts to outlaw prostitution they have lost the support of the general public and it is only a matter of time now till they like the KKK of the civil right fight lose their relevance to society.

 

Just my opinion

 

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[Midnite-Energies 110563]

fem·i·nism

: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests

 

This is the true definition and it has indeed been hijacked. Now when many people hear that someone is a feminist, they picture radical man hater out to elevate and destroy. There have been many feminists standing up against this industry, claiming victimization, painting ladies as unable to think for themselves, held back and down by men, forced and coerced. Yet, to me, a real feminist would focus on making sure the women have a right to CHOOSE, have workplace protections and labor rights and that there are laws in place to help those who are victims or need a better life circumstance.

 

Feminism is not about pushing personal morals, agendas and beliefs, it's about giving everyone the right to choose. The right to have the same benefits and pay, the same access and yes, the same treatment. I don't believe that men should be automatically damned in favor of a woman, I don't believe that all abuse is only perpetrated by men or that only men manipulate and take advantage.

 

I believe that we are all people and unique just like every life and situation. I believe in fairness for all, rights for all and in choosing what works for you as an individual.

 

Feminism is NOT a dirty word and needs to be reclaimed. Those women who want to take away rights that don't fall in with their beliefs, feel men should be burned just because they are men and feel that every woman should receive benefit because they are simply a woman, need to be called out on what they really are because they are NOT feminists.

Feminism is not just about women, it's about all people.

[Brad 49548]

I really don't think there are nearly as many "man-hater feminists" out there as some think or fear. As with anything in life, you'll have people that distort a valid idea or movement and go too far.

 

In part I think the problem is that more radical elements tend to make more noise or get more of the attention. I'm a feminist, and in fact it bothers me when people say they aren't because truly it's meaning is that provided by MidniteMassage above, and has nothing to do with man-hating or putting men down.

 

The other thing--and sometimes this is deliberate but often it's just unconscious--is when a group has been privileged with power it's hard for it recognize it and even harder for it to give that advantage up. Whether it's wealth, race, age, or gender, certain groups in our society are given advantages. Which isn't to say there's anything wrong with being rich, white, young, or male, or that those of us who fall into one or more of those demographics don't have problems, but we're also often blind to the privilege we have.

 

I say this because some men are threatened by feminism and are unconsciously lasing out at the loss of their privilege. So they'll point to those feminists who are radical or unfair and paint them as if that's what all feminism is and undermine the movement and change the conversation. To be clear, I in no way think that's what the OP is doing here. Rather, I think it's in part the result of those that are threatened by feminism distorting its meaning (along with the few radicals) that the entire word starts to lose its true meaning or give it a bad taste for all of us when it shouldn't.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

I'm a feminist. Always have been and always will be.

 

Do I agree with every statements other feminists say? No.

 

That's what being a feminist is in my mind. Being able to hear others points of views, and deciding for yourself what you believe.

 

Are women still being exploited and held back by a patriarchal society? Hell yes. Will I speak my mind about this? Of course.

 

Society is constantly evolving. I still remember not being able to open a bank account without a husband's permission.

 

We still have a long way to go.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

A beautiful speech by Emma Watson at the UN:

[loopie 15358]

A lot of the problem is that people who identify as feminists are now very divded on certain issues.

 

Sexuality is one of them. Many of you have already pointed out that it's somewhat baffling that a woman who chooses by her own free will to profit handsomely from her sexuality can be painted as a victim. But there do seem to be plenty of self-proclaimed feminists who feel that any time a woman is sexualized, she is being exploited; that sexuality is implicitly degrading.

 

An even trickier issue is ethics. Feminists want to see women achieve success and prominence in business and politics. However, the ways men achieved so much power in these fields are frequently seen as unethical. So there's a conflict of values. As a feminist, it might make you happy to see a woman as a wealthy CEO of giant company. However, it might offend you that to reach that level of success she had to resort to unethical tactics such as exploiting third world child labour to produce cheaper goods, using environmentally destructive materials and production methods, dishonest adverstising, union busting, bribing politicians, not paying her share of taxes etc.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

An even trickier issue is ethics. Feminists want to see women achieve success and prominence in business and politics. However, the ways men achieved so much power in these fields are frequently seen as unethical. So there's a conflict of values. As a feminist, it might make you happy to see a woman as a wealthy CEO of giant company. However, it might offend you that to reach that level of success she had to resort to unethical tactics such as exploiting third world child labour to produce cheaper goods, using environmentally destructive materials and production methods, dishonest adverstising, union busting, bribing politicians, not paying her share of taxes etc.

 

They say the top ranks of politics and business are filled with psychopaths, and since men are 10-20 times as likely to be psychopaths as women, that probably partially explains the gender imbalance at the top rungs of society. So what's the solution here, encourage more women to be psychopaths? These folks don't play by the rules, and more rules just create more of a challenge for them.

[peacectryguy 12547]

I'm a feminist. Always have been and always will be.

 

Do I agree with every statements other feminists say? No.

 

That's what being a feminist is in my mind. Being able to hear others points of views, and deciding for yourself what you believe.

 

Are women still being exploited and held back by a patriarchal society? Hell yes. Will I speak my mind about this? Of course.

 

Society is constantly evolving. I still remember not being able to open a bank account without a husband's permission.

 

We still have a long way to go.

Meaghan, I couldn't agree with you more. There is indeed a long way to go and many things still haven't been addressed but we have made strides in the right direction, I believe.

 

Now, as for these people who profess to be "feminists" in this current political climate. I honestly don't consider them feminists at all. I consider them rich, bored do-gooder housewives who are trying to put an end to prostitution. They pick the most vulnerable and yes, exploited, and use that as a symbol for their altruism. They have no idea of the real world outside their "ivory towers" and really don't understand the impact on others. They just don't want to see or hear about it. The Bedford decision brought the entire industry out into the light of day and they cannot stand that. They probably have husbands that "step out" or their marriage has failed because of something similar and they have an axe to grind. They adopt the mantel of feminism to try and give them credibility but in reality they are setting the real feminist movement back to the stone age.

In all fairness to some of them, they don't even realize they are doing this, I believe. They truly believe they are trying to help but they forget the adage of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[VedaSloan 119179]

As someone doing a PhD in women's studies, let me say first off that there is no one definition of feminism, but as a generalization we can say that feminism refers to the political, economic and social equality of the sexes.

 

There are many different strands of feminism, such as Marxist/Socialist feminism, radical feminism, liberal feminism, post-structural/postmodernist feminism. They all have particular histories and goals.

 

It's much better to think of feminism in the plural, as feminisms, because there are many.

 

In terms of the type of feminism influencing C36--this is a very specific form of radical feminism that was formulated during the 60s-70s-80s. But lest you think this a new incarnation, this type of "rescue the fallen women" has been a goal of middle class white women since the 19th century. Despite being very vocal, they are in fact a minority amongst feminists generally.

 

I generally refer to myself as a sex radical feminist or a sex positive feminist. Those are labels that refer to a type of feminism that is supportive of sex workers rights, as well as trans rights (many rad fems are trans-exclusionary, arguing offensively that transwomen in particular are just men in drag).

 

I would hope you wouldn't paint an entire group as man-haters because of a few bad apples.

[peacectryguy 12547]

As someone doing a PhD in women's studies, let me say first off that there is no one definition of feminism, but as a generalization we can say that feminism refers to the political, economic and social equality of the sexes.

 

There are many different strands of feminism, such as Marxist/Socialist feminism, radical feminism, liberal feminism, post-structural/postmodernist feminism. They all have particular histories and goals.

 

It's much better to think of feminism in the plural, as feminisms, because there are many.

 

In terms of the type of feminism influencing C36--this is a very specific form of radical feminism that was formulated during the 60s-70s-80s. But lest you think this a new incarnation, this type of "rescue the fallen women" has been a goal of middle class white women since the 19th century. Despite being very vocal, they are in fact a minority amongst feminists generally.

 

I generally refer to myself as a sex radical feminist or a sex positive feminist. Those are labels that refer to a type of feminism that is supportive of sex workers rights, as well as trans rights (many rad fems are trans-exclusionary, arguing offensively that transwomen in particular are just men in drag).

 

I would hope you wouldn't paint an entire group as man-haters because of a few bad apples.

I agree and thank you Berlin. I think that middle part that I hilited is very apt in this situation. It is very similar to what this new anti-prostitution movement is often compared to and that is Prohibition which was spearheaded by what was then called "the suffragettes" because of men coming home drunk and being violent. While what they were advocating against was very important, their solution to the problem was flawed and eventually caused more problems then it solved because they didn't understand the situation completely.

And as for the radical feminists who go way over the top, I agree that they are indeed a very small portion of feminists in general. Like virtually every term about a certain group of people, whoever they may be, we shouldn't paint them all with the same brush. Myself, I respect those feminists who merely want to be treated respectfully and equally. I work alongside some women in construction that while maybe being smaller or less physically gifted in some ways make up for it in spades with a great attitude and work ethic that frankly puts some of my male co-workers to shame. I admire that greatly.

[fortunateone 156618]

"It's a woman's body to do with it as she chooses!" So why does this apply to abortion and not SPing? I've always found that quite hypocritical.

 

Anyway, there's a movement called Men Going Their Own Way, in which men simply give up on relationships with women and do their own thing, and when manly needs arise they pursue this hobby, or travel abroad to well known "affection destinations", or whatever. Some men, after getting gutted by Divorce and Family courts and false abuse claims, feel the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction and have removed themselves from all the drama. It seems to be a covert rebellion.

 

 

"if the word feminist has been hijacked by extremists?"

 

You don't say! :P

 

 

 

Because abortion rights means giving the sole right to terminate to the woman, which basically means a lack of any rights of the man. This sort of radfem is big on not letting men be able to do anything in regards to women, including whether or not their child is born or not (note i am a pro abortion, and really don't think it is a men's rights issue, however we are talking about why radfems don't view abortion as they do sex work when it comes to choice about what women can do with their bodies. ) Basically a radfem of this type does not want men to have anything, whether it is access to sex or access to children. To them the two things are not contradictory, because it is basically based not on woman's choice to do as they wish with their own bodies, but making sure that men do not have a choice at all.

 

 

And basically, there is somewhat of a movement to not allow this type of anti sex worker person to call themselves 'feminist'. Instead, you can refer to them as SWERFs Swerf = sex work exclusionary radical feminist. A person who espouses to be a feminist but who does not believe that women engaged in ANY form of voluntary sex work should be included in the fight for equality, especially in employment or salary parity. This rabid exclusion of an entire class of women is usually a belief based on misplaced uptight morality.

 

 

 

Terf is used for that special brand of SWERFer who does not believe that any male transitioning or transitioned to female should ever be considered a woman. Because, according to a TERF, that person did not 'live' as a woman, and therefore does not count.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

I'm still waiting to be able call a plumber or mechanic and gaze longingly at the crack of her ass while she works in tight jeans and t-shirt! Now that's equality! :P

[Katherine of Halifax 113932]

I'm still waiting to be able call a plumber or mechanic and gaze longingly at the crack of her ass while she works in tight jeans and t-shirt! Now that's equality! :P

 

Just pick up your phone and dial .

 

I had a plumber here to give me some estimates and was surprised to see a very sexy lady.

 

I'm not sure why I was surprised , however I did not look at the crack of her ass and she did not show that .

 

I guess there are lots a lady plumbers here in Halifax and well they exude class as any profession.

 

Any profession should in my mind have class. We have many options. Both consumer and client.

[FunAdventures 4501]

Well I think everyone who has contributed to this thread are all right.

 

I hate when the word 'feminism' gets construed as men hating, or someone out to get men, etc etc. And it also saddens me when it's an accurate depiction. It should not be.

 

All feminism is, is the desire for things to be equal. And yes, we have gotten to the point where you can open a bank account without the permission of a man, but we are nowhere near where we should be. There are still tons of inequalities, from both sides.

 

I have worked in male dominated industrial jobs most of my life. I started working in a mine when I was 19. It was a camp set up, week in week out. I was one of a handful of girls on site. It took 5 years before my 300 some colleagues stopped trying to sleep with me and actually became my friends. I can guarantee you that a 19 year old man has not had to deal with continuously being hit on for 5 years, while trying to politely decline everyone so that you don't come across as a b*ch. This is what feminism is trying to get rid of.

 

Another site I worked at, a few of the older men still possess the view that women don't belong in industry. They have intentionally set up new female employees to do two-person jobs alone. This results in them getting injured. However, men never do this job alone. They always do it in pairs. They set new female employees up to fail just so that they can say "See, women don't belong. They can't do the job." This is what feminism is trying to get rid of.

 

And there are countless other examples I've come across in my years as being a female. The one I probably hate the most deals with our children, and how girls are always told they are beautiful and pretty and have nice clothes and hair, and 'oh, how cute she is'. Whereas the boys get told they are strong, creative, smart, ingenious, thoughful, etc... And how girls who are assertive are 'bossy', and boys who are assertive are 'leaders'. Drives me nuts! We need to start in our own homes and in our own lives in order for change to occur.

 

I have some favourite Ted Talks that are about the subject of inequality. I love the first one, and if you ever listen to anyone talk about this subject matter, this is the one you should listen to. It's a man speaking, if that helps ;-P

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Emma Watson's UN speech was also brilliant.

[Kate von Katz 49953]

Feminism is not misandry. The two words have no similar meaning, aside from the fact that many people who are opposed to feminism have decided to try to make those two words synonymous. They're not.

 

Raidcals and extremists exist everywhere with everything. They do not represent the majority and feminism is no exception.

 

I am a feminist and it's been fodder for the a-holes on the BC board to find more reasons to hate me. I actually had someone write me an e-mail comparing me to Hitler. All because I believe women are equal and men aren't a bunch of children who don't know any better than their shitty behavior and are fully capable of being held accountable for their (in)actions rather than coddled and babied. How dare I presume that men are intelligent, capable beings and that women are, too. God, yeah, just call me Irma Greee... *rolls eyes*

 

Anyhow, feminism is not about hating men. That's misandry. Totally different.

[mrrnice2 157005]

 

It's much better to think of feminism in the plural, as feminisms, because there are many.

 

Perhaps I simply overlooked the obvious so your statement helps to clarify things for me.

 

I would hope you wouldn't paint an entire group as man-haters because of a few bad apples.

 

Again here Berlin, that statement also puts things in a better perspective. I shall try to be more tolerant in my mind with first impressions of the words feminism and feminists.

 

Thanks to everyone for their opinions and viewpoints on my original opinion/question. From a purely personal perspective, I know that I have become very riled in the past six months with the reading of press statements, with opinions of many, and mostly after watching much of the parliamentary committee testimony on the new legislation.

 

I REALLY appreciate and support the view that in its most simplistic interpretation feminism may be a desire for equality of all, as basic as that. Sounds like a pretty awesome goal to me.

[loopie 15358]

Does anybody else here read that free newspaper 'Metro'? I assume they got a new editor because about a year ago I noticed the feminist agenda in it rising. Has anybody else noticed this?

 

I used to like it because it was a "just the facts" summary of what's going on. It never went into much detail on stories, but it also mostly spared me the editorial commentary that I find plagues major newspapers. But now it seems full of commentary and their choice of stories seems very strategic.

 

Just for example: they spent half a page on an article about how men tend to sit with their legs spread apart (this action was nicknamed "manspreading"). They actually interviewed a Women's Studies professor who classified this as opression of women because on public buses men's knees are taking up space that, in theory, belongs to women. If I saw something like this in a women's magazine like 'Cosmopolitan' it would probably be right at home with some cutesy title like 'Ten Totally Annoying Things That Dudes Do', seeing it in a real newspaper felt incredibly petty. And hearing a pet peeve like this phrased as a struggle for all womankind felt beyond melodramatic. Just to be clear, I would find it equally stupid to see a guy writing an article in a real newspaper about how annoying he finds it that his girlfriend's products are all over his bathroom sink.

 

Anyway, this is just an observation.

[Ice4fun 78407]

We don't have the "metro" paper here in St. John's so I can't really comment on any shift that may have taken place in their editorial policy.... what I can say is that I know I hate to have to sit next to another guy on public transit or on a plane or at a hockey game or concert as we do in fact tend to spread out into other people's personal space... women in this regards certainly seem to be way more respectful.

 

Just my Opinion

 

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