roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cellphone-privacy-at-issue-in-supreme-court-ruling-tomorrow-1.2867427 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 the outcome of this will be good to know regarding c36, if c36 actually is something anyone in any city is going to have to be concerned about. The Supreme Court of Canada will rule Thursday whether the police have the right to search people's cellphones when they're arrested. It's a case that could have wider privacy implications, including for smartphones and tablets. There has been no single guideline for searching cellphones during arrests, though the court last year found that special authorization is needed to search computers and cellphones during the execution of a search warrant. That case involved searches of a location, such as a house, and didn't specifically address a search during an arrest. The decision is also likely to deal with password protection, an issue mentioned in the ruling by the lower court. Thursday's case comes out of a 2009 armed robbery in Toronto where police found a cellphone when they patted down Kevin Fearon and Junior Chapman, the men they were arresting. When police looked at the text messages on the phone, they found a draft message that referred to jewelry and included the phrase "we did it." They also found a photo of a handgun. Passwords protect The police can search a cellphone if it's reasonable to believe there may be evidence of a crime on it, or if they think it holds information needed to prevent another crime. In this case, officers thought it was urgent to find the handgun used in the robbery and to find the jewelry before it could be hidden or sold. The police applied for a search warrant months later, which was granted. The trial judge found the text message and photo could be submitted as evidence and Fearon was found guilty. In his appeal, Fearon's lawyer argued that his client's right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure was breached. The Ontario Court of Appeal dismissed the appeal in a unanimous decision. "If the cellphone had been password protected or otherwise 'locked' to users other than the appellant, it would not have been appropriate to take steps to open the cellphone and examine its contents without first obtaining a search warrant," Robert P. Armstrong wrote in the February 2013 decision. The B.C. Civil Liberties Association intervened in the lower court hearing and in the Supreme Court case to argue that police should only search a cellphone in an emergency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinelli 22184 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 There are conflicting previous judgements. Apparently an unlocked phone was deemed searchable. A locked phone required a specific search warrant for that telephone. A warrant for a search of a residence would cover a cellphone in that residence. A random traffic stop would not allow a cellphone search. The Court needs to streamline these. During a recent trip down south I saw police using a device which copies the entire contents of your phone, tablet or laptop. Suffice to say everything bad you hear about their law enforcement was confirmed. Hell will freeze over before I go back to that third world banana republic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 Since it follows yesterday's news story I just added it to this thread Searches must be directly related to arrest, police must keep detailed notes http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cellphone-searches-upon-arrest-allowed-by-canada-s-top-court-1.2869587 RG 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 So if I read this correctly there is some protection from searches of your phone when there is no search warrant in place but that if you are arrested than LE will have greater leeway to go into your phone to search for items related to the reason for your arrest. Hmmm so if you are arrested under the new law than your text messages with the lady could be found in the search and used against you. Food for thought. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyMichelle 730 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 I guess people need to be careful not to leave anything you wouldn't want someone to see cleared of your phones. Smh what's next... LaDyMichelle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinelli 22184 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 I delete everything daily. Messages are stored on phone company servers so that probably doesn't help much. Better to think about what you are writing and be discreet as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 So, I haven't looked at this in detail yet, but... Do you have to supply them with any passwords or whatever in order to aid their search? Or just hand the device over and let them get on with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 My understanding is that LE has the technology to copy that information from your phone or laptop without a password and in addition, can get a Court Order to obtain passwords (they can compell you to disclose) and get further information from the internet company. Information may still be available even if you deleted all messages, logs and history. But IMO, you shouldn't have anything to hide if you are responsible in your communications. There is nothing unlawful in booking time with a business. Just don't be explicit in calls or texts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomer 33202 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 So if I read this correctly there is some protection from searches of your phone when there is no search warrant in place but that if you are arrested than LE will have greater leeway to go into your phone to search for items related to the reason for your arrest. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk I would disagree with you on one point. I believe that this gives them less leeway, if arrested I don't think I would give them my password unless permitted to talk to a lawyer. They must have good reason and fully document any access to your phone. I would think also that they would have to have pretty strong grounds to apply for a warrant, trying to arrange a date doesn't impress me as one of those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 I agree with Boomer that if you are arrested, you don't give them your password. Just say you want a lawyer and shut up. A lawyer may be able to get you off without any charges and before LE has a chance to search the device. If you are not under arrest, then get the hell out of there as soon as possible. You do not have any obligation to speak to LE at all, EVER. Stay silent like you are a mute. The only exception is to identify yourself when stopped by an officer (i.e provide your licence, etc.). If they already have a specific warrant in place, they'll take your phone/computer and get the info/force you to disclose you password. But being arrested will not in and of itself give them the right to access the info on your device, and I seriously do not believe they will even consider getting a warrant just because you are trying to see someone. The Court case being cited in the article had nothing to do with this industry. The privacy issues perhaps fall into our interests, but IMO (as it relates to this industry) it would only be an issue if you are arrested doing something else illegal and they add on an extra charge. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 I would disagree with you on one point. I believe that this gives them less leeway, if arrested I don't think I would give them my password unless permitted to talk to a lawyer. They must have good reason and fully document any access to your phone. I would think also that they would have to have pretty strong grounds to apply for a warrant, trying to arrange a date doesn't impress me as one of those. My reference to greater leeway was in reference to not needing a warrant when lower courts had indicated it would be necessary if there was a password. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 In regards to the password on my phone I am not sure if under the pressure and stress of my arrest if I would be able to recall the password. As a law abiding person I certainly would do my best to recall it for within the 5 attempts I have before the security software wipes the content on my phone.... really I would try my best :) Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 Ice4fun is right that the SCC decision clarifies that having a password does not change anything when it comes to LE's right to gather evidence. What matters is the manner and context in which it is obtained by LE. I do not believe (unfortunately) that wiping one's phone will permanently delete all data, logs, etc. It is my understanding that LE, especially the RCMP and CSIS, has technology to revive the information. Also, internet companies have information available. The key is making sure the communications are not explicit. Btw, another point to consider is that even if LE arrests you, searches your device and finds incriminating evidence (password or not), it is always up to the Crown prosecutors to decide if you will be charged and with what. There is a common misconception out there that LE press charges. It's actually up to the Crown lawyers. So if the case is frivolous, I doubt they would even bother bringing forward a case simply because one guy met up with a gal for an hour. As long as there is no human trafficking or under the age of majority, I think you'll get a pass or at worst a pre-charge diversion program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qwertyaccount 15793 Report post Posted December 19, 2014 Locker: Make Your Android Auto-Wipe Your Data When Stolen: http://nexus5.wonderhowto.com/how-to/make-your-android-auto-wipe-your-data-when-stolen-0157407/ https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.zygotelabs.locker AppLock: can lock SMS, Contacts, Gmail, Facebook, Gallery, Market, Settings, Calls and any app you choose, with abundant options, protecting your privacy: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.domobile.applock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 19, 2014 I have a friend who works in IT for special ops at CSIS. He has informed me that short of destroying the device's internal components beyond recognition, they have technology to revive it. I can't vouch for this myself because I don't have the tech background, but I am not surprised that certain agencies have tech not available/known of by the general public. Again, I don't think they will use this for the average 1 hour fling, but could use this for human trafficking rings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted December 19, 2014 I have a friend who works in IT for special ops at CSIS. He has informed me that short of destroying the device's internal components beyond recognition, they have technology to revive it. I can't vouch for this myself because I don't have the tech background, but I am not surprised that certain agencies have tech not available/known of by the general public. Again, I don't think they will use this for the average 1 hour fling, but could use this for human trafficking rings. The good news for me is that my wife does not work for CSIS and I agree it's highly unlikely that LE Has the level of interest in my sex life that it would warrant the use of the technology you reference. Lol Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WealthyCowboy 5281 Report post Posted December 22, 2014 If your wife works for CSIS, perhaps she is a spy and you wouldn't even know. Ever seen that movie Mr. and Mrs. Smith with Brangelina? lol, actually, having a spy as a spouse could be quite hot... think of the role play...and restraint methods... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted December 22, 2014 If your wife works for CSIS, perhaps she is a spy and you wouldn't even know. Ever seen that movie Mr. and Mrs. Smith with Brangelina? lol, actually, having a spy as a spouse could be quite hot... think of the role play...and restraint methods... My wife is way to nice a person to be a spy Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterrat 1261 Report post Posted December 22, 2014 Back in the pre smart-phone days, pagers were popular among drug dealers. It was not uncommon for police officers to take notes of the incoming calls. The same for cellphones with caller id. The difficulty for LE today is the sheer number of cases to investigate and the incredible volume of information on a smartphone. In anything but the most serious cases, police do not have the time to investigate. In the last week in Ottawa, I counted two home invasions, 8 robberies, 9 sexual assaults, as many motor vehicle thefts and then we have dozens of thefts, assaults and break and enters. In 2013 there was one "call for service" to police for every 3 residents of the city. That does not include minor provincial offences such as traffic stops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubJunky 1954 Report post Posted December 22, 2014 Police pulled me over for talking on my cell phone, I argued I was not talking on my phone I had it in my hand against my head, the policeman said If I get a warrant to open your phone will I see the time stamp of you talking a few minutes ago, I said go ahead and get a warrant I'll wait here. He got all stuffy and walked away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted December 22, 2014 Police pulled me over for talking on my cell phone, I argued I was not talking on my phone I had it in my hand against my head, the policeman said If I get a warrant to open your phone will I see the time stamp of you talking a few minutes ago, I said go ahead and get a warrant I'll wait here. He got all stuffy and walked away. Your probably lucky he didn't just ticket you anyway...if you appeared in court to fight the ticket the judge would probably have asked you to produce your cell phone records to prove you were not on a call at the time of the ticket. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
