What is going on out there?

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

Keep the faith ladies. One thing I've learned is if you create fear and worry, those feelings stand in the way of what you really desire such as creating more business. When worry and fear are constant thoughts, you are blocking abundance from coming to you. The universe will ALWAYS take care of you. Just know that. You just have to believe that you will always receive it while believing it. :)

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+attract+abundance+abraham+hicks

 

 

[nntsci 11076]

I've pretty much settled down to three regular girls I see. Two I contact through an escort agency and I'm a bit concerned about that angle. I notice the agency has removed all nudity from their web page... also last Monday, their site (and another site) wouldn't come up on my web browser at first. It said no connection. I had to get to it by a saved link... not sure why that was the case, but perhaps my browser security settings were to blame. Anyway it works now.

[spud271 47779]

December, January and February are traditionally slow months. It's always been that way. Given the law kicked in at a time of year when people have to spend more than at any other time of year, it's too early to judge if this is just the normal slow down period or something greater.

[itd131 954]

My interpretation of the new law is that massage parlours are not safe places for clients. I'm no expert and could be wrong but I won't be going to a mp anytime soon.

[budski 225]

I can attest to backing off while this new law falls into place. I saw someone regularly, but they had recently retired. Looking for someone new, but am too scared to try anyone new at the moment.

 

Additionally, I sometimes linger in cerb/lyla chat - recently I have been getting messages from others simply asking 'have you seen anyone from lyla?' or 'do you have any recommendations for me?' - I find that pretty sketch.

[Phaedrus 209521]

My interpretation of the new law is that massage parlours are not safe places for clients. I'm no expert and could be wrong but I won't be going to a mp anytime soon.

 

They've been fine for me with the new laws so far!

 

This comes down to LE priorities, really, and LE have better things to do than go after consenting adults who are having fun together, even if some wingnuts may disapprove of that fun. I believe that at least some of the spa owners are in touch with LE, and therefore know what the risks are. Also, I suspect that if LE wanted to make an example of anyone to send a message they'd have done so by now.

 

If you want further evidence, read the indignant press releases from the abolitionists (thread in the general section), who are belatedly realizing that having the political contacts to get a stupid law passed does not actually mean that anyone else will pay either you or it any more attention than is warranted.

 

I can attest to backing off while this new law falls into place. I saw someone regularly, but they had recently retired. Looking for someone new, but am too scared to try anyone new at the moment.

 

You should be fine with any MA at a reputable spa, or any Indie with a good track record. No worrying required!

 

Additionally, I sometimes linger in cerb/lyla chat - recently I have been getting messages from others simply asking 'have you seen anyone from lyla?' or 'do you have any recommendations for me?' - I find that pretty sketch.

 

Perhaps. But there are always people who are too damn lazy to do any research themselves and want to be spoon-fed. Ignore them, or tell them to read the recos for the city they're in... or if you feel like some gentle trolling, recommend someone in Iqaluit :)

[loneskater 25635]

My interpretation of the new law is that massage parlours are not safe places for clients. I'm no expert and could be wrong but I won't be going to a mp anytime soon.

 

Maybe you should go back and read the old law. They were highly illegal under those laws and I haven't heard of anybody that got arrested back then. Actually in a sense they break less laws now. So if you did go back then your post doesn't make much sense. Since the law makes it illegal to see anyone offering sexual services for money, Indy or not!

[Holden 903]

My interpretation of the new law is that massage parlours are not safe places for clients. I'm no expert and could be wrong but I won't be going to a mp anytime soon.

 

Whether this concern is valid or not, this sentiment seems to be echoed by many people who are now nervous about going to spas.

 

Given the concern over LE and the new legislation, do people here feel more comfortable going to a private club like CMJ since it's private property?

 

Or does it not make a difference to you so long as you go to a reputable spa?

[itd131 954]

Maybe you should go back and read the old law. They were highly illegal under those laws and I haven't heard of anybody that got arrested back then. Actually in a sense they break less laws now. So if you did go back then your post doesn't make much sense. Since the law makes it illegal to see anyone offering sexual services for money, Indy or not!

 

Yes, it's true that under the old law in calls were illegal but the big difference being that due to the SC declaring the old law unconstitutional it was a pretty safe bet that it wasn't being enforced.

 

There's a reason why quite a few of the better run TO based agencies (Cupid's, Mirage, for example) are changing their websites and business model to a different structure - they are trying to avoid "living off the avails" issues. Any mp that offers massage with pictures of semi-nude women, to me anyway, is asking for trouble.

[fortunateone 156618]

A few years ago, from time to time (like really rarely) LE in the lower mainland would do the raids on legit mps, however only asian mps. The idea was they could do the trafficking thing, with the illegal workers thing, and also nab the owner/manager and any, (if any) clients in there for being in a bawdy house.

 

Just being there was enough to get a charge. It isn't as easy to prove that money exchanged (or communication exchanged) for sexual services now, because they'd literally have to see it happen. Before, just being in a spa was enough for a charge, now it is doubtful they will bother simply because it isn't as clear how to lay the charge at all. The only way is to take over the whole spa and set up stings for all incoming clients, but how do they justify doing that, since the escorts inside aren't doing anything illegal, the spa itself isn't doing anything illegal, and it is no longer a bawdy house at all due to the recent SCC overturn. They have no legal legs to stand on to take it over, so they aren't going to take it over, so clients are not going to be able to get into any sort of trouble.

 

I mean that is just the logistics of how surveillance and raids are done in the past, you just can't lay a communication charge without seeing it happen, imo. and you aren't going to see it happen when everyone is behind closed doors.

[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

Whether this concern is valid or not, this sentiment seems to be echoed by many people who are now nervous about going to spas.

 

Given the concern over LE and the new legislation, do people here feel more comfortable going to a private club like CMJ since it's private property?

 

Or does it not make a difference to you so long as you go to a reputable spa?

 

I know the bylaws that govern body rubs and holistics are vast and varied between Brampton, Mississauga and Toronto and obviously much different for body rub vs holistic. I'm sure Ottawa has it's unique set of rules too.

 

In toronto for example, the doors may be closed on treatment rooms but they can not be locked to bar LE or bylaw. They walk in and you better only be getting a body rub. In Brampton the bylaw states backwards peepholes must be installed on each door for LE to view inside without having to enter.

 

Stick to the body rub rules in a body rub and you should be fine.

[Guest D***el B***e]

I know the bylaws that govern body rubs and holistics are vast and varied between Brampton, Mississauga and Toronto and obviously much different for body rub vs holistic. I'm sure Ottawa has it's unique set of rules too.

 

In toronto for example, the doors may be closed on treatment rooms but they can not be locked to bar LE or bylaw. They walk in and you better only be getting a body rub. In Brampton the bylaw states backwards peepholes must be installed on each door for LE to view inside without having to enter.

 

Stick to the body rub rules in a body rub and you should be fine.

 

 

What? Backwards peepholes? Never heard of that before, that's goddam scary!!! I'm definitely reconsidering everything now, the new law has me running scarred. I'll stick to the safe ladies I know, sorry.

[Ice4fun 78407]

You might find that things plateau once the shiney penny newness rubs off.

 

Love the imagery in that fortunateone... I guess that just confirms everything Mr Harper and McKay have been saying about us clients being "Perverts" I read your post and immediately all I can think about is all the fun ways it would be possible to "rub the newness off".

 

That said I have decided to say screw Harper and will not be changing what I have previously done when it comes to booking time with amazing ladies.

 

Like in the past I will do my homework keep it safe for both me and her but I will be dammed if some pencil Dick nerd right wing economist is going to tell me what to do with another consenting adult.

 

Just my Opinion

[loneskater 25635]

Yes, it's true that under the old law in calls were illegal but the big difference being that due to the SC declaring the old law unconstitutional it was a pretty safe bet that it wasn't being enforced. ..

 

Again ur comment is not quite accurate in the context of the discussion. That SC ruling happened on Dec 5th, 2013. Most reputable spas in this city existed long before that. I have moved to this area in 2005 and the only arrest there has been against spas were those involved with human trafficking. None of the reputable spas got busted and shut down. Therefore your comment saying none were busted because of the supreme court ruling is totally inaccurate.

 

I can understand that many of us react differently to the new laws as our situations and risk tolerance varies. However if your going to put forth arguments on this board that may shy other's away from the reputable spas, at least don't put half truths to support your view and leave out the facts that do not support it!

[Sylvia Star 660]

I am really confused as to why anyone would say that a spa is not safe. Especially one that has been around for so long, such as Paradise Spa, or Angels Touch, in Ottawa West. I came here to work because this place offers me safety and security. I came from the hotels. Same girl. Same service. Different location, safe, and discreet. Seriously though, how is going to a hotel or a private residence safer? Do you know who is on the other side of that door???

[Phaedrus 209521]

Whether this concern is valid or not, this sentiment seems to be echoed by many people who are now nervous about going to spas.

 

True. The law was designed to create fear. On that front, at least, it can't be called a complete failure.

 

Given the concern over LE and the new legislation, do people here feel more comfortable going to a private club like CMJ since it's private property?

 

Or does it not make a difference to you so long as you go to a reputable spa?

 

I don't see that there's much difference. If LE want in, they'll be coming in.

 

What really matters is how discreet the place is, and therefore how likely the neighbors are to make the police do something. Most places are pretty discreet or they'd have been shut down long ago.

 

Yes, it's true that under the old law in calls were illegal but the big difference being that due to the SC declaring the old law unconstitutional it was a pretty safe bet that it wasn't being enforced.

 

Sorry, but I'm not following your logic here. Are you claiming that the old laws were never enforced because somehow, people knew that the SCC would eventually rule them unconstitutional?

 

The old laws were in place for many years before the Bedford case was even launched. This industry was present throughout those years.

 

There's a reason why quite a few of the better run TO based agencies (Cupid's, Mirage, for example) are changing their websites and business model to a different structure - they are trying to avoid "living off the avails" issues.

 

You seem unfamiliar with the law. I can guarantee you that they don't give a damn about living off the avails, because that's no longer the law of the land. The relevant law now is the new provisions on what you can and can't advertize.

 

Any mp that offers massage with pictures of semi-nude women, to me anyway, is asking for trouble.

 

Because, obviously, *nothing* is advertized with pictures of semi-nude women in this day and age, because they all got into trouble when they did...

 

What? Backwards peepholes? Never heard of that before, that's goddam scary!!! I'm definitely reconsidering everything now, the new law has me running scarred. I'll stick to the safe ladies I know, sorry.

 

Or just stay away from spas in Brandon. That won't be an issue for me, since I've never been there and have no plans to go :)

 

Please, post the links.

 

https://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=202104

[TheRiddlerMan 872]

One of the problems is that "sexual services" is potentially extremely broad. It could certainly include spas and even strip clubs if it was interpreted in that way. I agree that LE lacks the desire and resources to strictly enforce the new law, but even a low risk is enough of a deterrent for many of us, given the life-destroying consequences of being wrong.

[WealthyCowboy 5281]

In response to RiddlerMan's post:

 

I agree that the term ''sexual services'' is very broad. It makes me laugh, like when Bill Clinton was trying to define the term ''sexual relations'' with respect to Monica Lewinski.

 

IMO, the new legislation does not practically apply to strip clubs with respect to lap dances and such. These are licensed establishments and it would be very difficult to enforce. Sure, if a stripper is offering to do a guy in a VIP room (which seems to be more and more available these days; not that I participate in this), there could be a criminal offence there but LE would not have the right to just bust in the private room without a warrant (which may prove difficult to obtain). That being said, I have never heard of any legal case in Canada on that issue.

 

Am I wrong? Has anyone ever heard of LE going into a strip club and actually arresting folks?

[conquistador 18487]

I've personally have never seen that, I've seen cops come in a case the joint but never arrest anyone. So it's never been a concern for me when I've gone. If they did, maybe it was for other reasons unrelated to the strip club?!

[WealthyCowboy 5281]

I think LE's biggest obstacle to enforce the law in a strip club private room setting (in addition to obtaining a warrant) would be trying to prove money was actually exchanged.

 

If I were caught doing that (which I don't), I would just insist that the stripper is my girlfriend (as dumb as that may sound) and that I did not pay her. I know this sounds silly, but if there is no actual evidence of money exchanged, the test for establishing the criminal offence is not established. It does happen on occasion that a stripper's SO or a friend are at the club.

[Bianca Jaguar 39183]

I guess I have chosen a good time to take some time off after a minor surgery...I had a feeling it would be quieter in december specially after the new law...

will be back in late January when things have calm down...Time for some vacation in sunny South :D...

 

P.S.thank you Pheadrus for keeping a positive attitude...I need to stop reading these threads ;)

 

Bianca

[piano8950 32577]

I am really confused as to why anyone would say that a spa is not safe. Especially one that has been around for so long, such as Paradise Spa, or Angels Touch, in Ottawa West.

 

I can only assume when people are mentioning that they don't feel safe in a spa, it's safety from the police. Now that a law has been enacted, I'm wondering if people are just waiting for a while to see if there are going to be police sweeps. These spas (or some that I know of at least) have obtained a permit from the city, which from my understanding made some activities legit. So what supersedes the other? Will the local PDs use common sense and let consenting adults do what they want, or will they employ other tactics.

 

I came here to work because this place offers me safety and security. I came from the hotels. Same girl. Same service. Different location, safe, and discreet.

 

Excellent point, if you haven't already done so, maybe let your MP know this and how this is not helping you one bit (or whatever you are experiencing because of the new law)

 

Seriously though, how is going to a hotel or a private residence safer? Do you know who is on the other side of that door???

 

As a client - some comfort is by visiting individuals who I have some knowledge from before, or visited before (hypothetically speaking of course).

 

As a lady on the other side of that door - No helpful comment. Sorry

[WealthyCowboy 5281]

I agree with the piano man. Some guys view public spas as unsafe from undercover LE.

 

That's why I prefer CMJ (but I don't want anyone to take this as me saying anything against other spas; I'm sure they're great).

 

As frustrating as this may sound for those ladies trying to enter this industry, I think it's best for guys to be cautious, check recos and wait at least a month before seeing a new girl. I don't think a female officer would be willing to work dozens of sessions before making a bust. The guys that go after the new girl take extra risks IMO, albeit a very low risk.

 

I am curious if new girls are having a slower time post C-36... Is this the case, or is the shinny new penny effect still in full force?

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

In response to RiddlerMan's post:

 

I agree that the term ''sexual services'' is very broad. It makes me laugh, like when Bill Clinton was trying to define the term ''sexual relations'' with respect to Monica Lewinski.

 

IMO, the new legislation does not practically apply to strip clubs with respect to lap dances and such. These are licensed establishments and it would be very difficult to enforce. Sure, if a stripper is offering to do a guy in a VIP room (which seems to be more and more available these days; not that I participate in this), there could be a criminal offence there but LE would not have the right to just bust in the private room without a warrant (which may prove difficult to obtain). That being said, I have never heard of any legal case in Canada on that issue.

 

Am I wrong? Has anyone ever heard of LE going into a strip club and actually arresting folks?

 

From my experience, and have traveled extensively through out Canada as a dancer from 1993-1999, you are correct that there is no history of a client getting any issues from dances. Now each city and bar had their own rules. But it was always up to the bouncers that work there to keep it "clean" .

 

In 1993, when I began to dance, we had agents. I had to have a portfolio like a model, we had had to audition for a place in the agency, we also had proper paychecks that we paid taxes on.

 

Once it became freelance dance, things changed greatly. This was about 1996. It was a very different structure.

 

Now in 2008, I know a bar owner near my home town, who got busted for having "known" solicitation in his bar. Even though he did not really know this, it was said for the fact she was on line advertising it. He lost his liquor license for 8 months I think. Now he scrolls the pages to see if any of his entertainers are advertising it.

 

At the end of the day, it is the business owners that hold the fall out. As for agency/spa work, I feel it is the same deal. I also had to revamp my business model. I am no longer an agent that represents or advertises, nor do I book.

 

I truly feel that each person has to book legally, smartly and within guidelines of the law.

 

But one aspect to spa environment some people may miss is that even before this Bill, no "extra" was ever talked about, and never in hall ways of the establishment. That way it was never public solicitation, nor did the owners ever have to be in knowledge of. ( behind closed doors)

 

If the owners of the establishment did not know, or advertise or have proof of, the even the words " living off avails" could not apply same as "material benefit" AS LONG AS NO ONE ADVERTISES IT OR COMMITS TO IT OR ENQUIRES. The best thing is to go to reputable locations, agencies and INDY that are complying to the guidelines:)

 

Any ways, I know there are many ways to think of this, perhaps I am wrong, maybe right. But this is how I see this.

 

Cheers:)

[Katherine of Halifax 113932]

I guess I have chosen a good time to take some time off after a minor surgery...I had a feeling it would be quieter in december specially after the new law...

will be back in late January when things have calm down...Time for some vacation in sunny South :D...

 

P.S.thank you Pheadrus for keeping a positive attitude...I need to stop reading these threads ;)

 

Bianca

 

Best and love to you !