Locker room type behaviour?

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

How is talking about drugging and raping women "locker room behaviour"?

 

"I want to b-ang her" is completely different from what was posted by these individuals.

[Ice4fun 78407]

If the same comments were made in the schools locker room they too would be subject the review by the school under their code of conduct for students and for that matter the professional licensing bodies.

 

I find it somewhat amazing that people continue to compare apples and oranges just to try and justify their argument...

 

Salmon Rushdie did not suggest the drugging and raping of real people he knew... to draw a comparison between these two topics is ludicrous

 

This is not a free speech issue it a stupidity issue these gentlemen were stupid but the problem they now face is that even stupid people are accountable for their behaviour.

 

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

[Phaedrus 209521]

That said, while no criminal charges filed, it is of interest that the actions of the thirteen dental students did in fact cause the police to make enquiries.

 

Not really. All that means is that someone complained to the police... and when that happens, they *have* to investigate unless the complaint is obviously bogus or can be dismissed for some other reason. In this case, given the highly public nature of it, it'd be very foolish for the police to fail to investigate to some extent.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

I believe that we, as society, are becoming less tolerant of everything! To the point where the context of a statement, joke, cartoon becomes wholly irrelevant. Initially, people were using the word crime in this episode, and since this appeared to be less likely the issue now has turned to the character and code of conduct etc.

 

People break codes of conduct everyday, their character might not be perfect, but they are not (lynched) thrown to the streets and deprived of their livelihood. Proportionality is a concept which seems to be never heard of.

 

Now, the advocates of the lynching will step in to object to such wording, because expelling 13 students is merely an administrative decision and don't realize the common sens that stripping a man of his livelihood is the most penal punishment. Yes, let's stick to the semantics and slaughter them, Allahu Akber!

[fortunateone 156618]

I propose, on this day of ALL days, that mod go in and make 'lynch' a forbidden word on this site.

 

I find the continued use of it highly offensive, especially after it's origins were discussed fully.

 

Misuse and over use of the word lynch really got to me today. this is Martin Luther KING day in the US, is there any way we can NOT misuse the word to describe stupid dental students?

 

For anyone who wants to use it again, look up what this song is REALLY about. ( i was about to swear, i rarely do that, but this is the kind of thing that really offends me).

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

The problem with forbidding words is the same problem with slaughtering people for words.

[Ice4fun 78407]

The problem with misuse of words is the, fact that it diminishes the legitimacy of the argument being made. If your point is that people are over reacting to what you consider a less serious issue then say that... if you are saying that the reaction of people to this issue reminds you of a "lynch mob" mentality where people are jumping to applying a harsh penalty without due process then say that... but don't diminish your own argument by suggesting that these gentleman have been lynched... they have not.

 

These gentlemen are in fact being offered due process by the University... by the police and I am assuming the professional licensing bodies... they may not like the process but in the case of the university and the professional licensing bodies these gentlemen made themselves subject to these processes when they registered for the university and will when they seek licensing. These gentlemen are well educated and very able to understand the rules they were asked to respect so to cry foul when they got caught does not work for me.

 

Professionally I have a labour relations background and as has been said people breach codes of conduct every day... that is very true... but what is also true is that people are held accountable everyday for breaching codes of conduct and I can tell you from personal experience that inappropriate conduct in breach of an established code often result in people losing their current employment And impacting their ability to be rehired.

 

The only difference in this case is the fact that this case has played out very publicly with everyone weighing in... and a strong negative reaction to their actions in public opinion. But they can blame themselves for that because their inappropriate behavior was displayed on a public forum Facebook.

 

Bottom line the university will finish their review and make decisions... if the gentlemen disagree they can challenge the decision... the system is in fact working.

 

Just my Opinion

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

I believe that we, as society, are becoming less tolerant of everything! To the point where the context of a statement, joke, cartoon becomes wholly irrelevant. Initially, people were using the word crime in this episode, and since this appeared to be less likely the issue now has turned to the character and code of conduct etc.

 

People break codes of conduct everyday, their character might not be perfect, but they are not (lynched) thrown to the streets and deprived of their livelihood. Proportionality is a concept which seems to be never heard of.

 

Now, the advocates of the lynching will step in to object to such wording, because expelling 13 students is merely an administrative decision and don't realize the common sens that stripping a man of his livelihood is the most penal punishment. Yes, let's stick to the semantics and slaughter them, Allahu Akber!

It's been a common practice in our society to punish people for wrongdoing for a very very long time. I don't see why this situation would be any different. Whether the wrongdoing ended up being a criminal one, or a moral one, or whatever there are punishments and consequences in place to respond to that wrongdoing and they are now subject to those repercussions..... kind of like everybody else in this country who commits a wrongdoing.

 

If a person commits a moral misdeed and loses their job that is nobody's fault but their own. If the result is a lower paying job,that is their fault. It's not really the same as being killed/lynched/slaughtered. Those words are not synonymous with administrative due process and potential professional limitations or sanctions and the suggestion that they are is really starting to irritate people.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I propose, on this day of ALL days, that mod go in and make 'lynch' a forbidden word on this site.

 

I find the continued use of it highly offensive, especially after it's origins were discussed fully.

 

Misuse and over use of the word lynch really got to me today. this is Martin Luther KING day in the US, is there any way we can NOT misuse the word to describe stupid dental students?

 

For anyone who wants to use it again, look up what this song is REALLY about. ( i was about to swear, i rarely do that, but this is the kind of thing that really offends me).

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

I have to object to that request. With all due respect To Doctor King and his legacy. To start blocking words because of some of their connection to vile acts of the past is the wrong way to go . Lynching is not just about the injustices of the south, it is a word/term that was around long before those times. If it causes you to shudder when you hear it, then perhaps look past posts that have included it. That's what I've been doing when I keep hearing and seeing the word "rape".

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/lynching/lynching_2.html

 

Miss Jane is an articulate and good member who has made a point, I hate seeing how she is constantly ganged up on when she makes it. I understand it, feel it's relevant and can understand her use of the word Lynch. I also know she means no disrespect to anyone when using the term other than to define a way that she feels these men are being publicly punished.

[Ice4fun 78407]

I am not in favor of banning any particular word and I don't have any problem with anyone.. miss Jane included.. stating their opinion on here but if you strongly express your opinion on here as a number of people have I don't think it realistic to not expect a similar response from others.

 

My posts on here are not personal in anyway in fact I rather enjoy a good debate.

 

Just my Opinion

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

[CristyCurves 169032]

I am not in favor of banning any particular word and I don't have any problem with anyone.. miss Jane included.. stating their opinion on here but if you strongly express your opinion on here as a number of people have I don't think it realistic to not expect a similar response from others.

 

My posts on here are not personal in anyway in fact I rather enjoy a good debate.

 

Just my Opinion

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

 

I know:) I realize no one is making this personal, I probably could have worded "ganging up on" differently, sorry. A good debate is always educational and beneficial. I'm just surprised that no one is understanding her points, or being more supportive towards them.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Censorship is alive and well on here. Banning words now?

 

There are several concepts that arise from the reaction to the 13.

 

One is a rush to judgement. Before anyone had a fuller concept of what took place there were 50 000 signatures on a petition calling for expulsion of all 13! Some people here also rushed to judgement by calling for expulsion within days of knowing just a few facts. That can be considered like a "lynching" when a mob reacts in such an extreme way.

 

Tolerance is another issue. Not just jihadists are intolerant of thought and written word, and these 13 "tried" to keep it private! Go figure. Still, that's no excuse when you're the thought police!

 

Another issue is freedom of speech and what you can say in a supposedly private environment. Anything someone says or writes can offend some group. Some think the solution is to censor ideas, expressions, thoughts, books... basically the external environment. Others think that while I can't control the views of others that may offend me, I can control my own reaction to it. What a concept.

 

Another issue is personal accountability. To whom are you accountable? Christians, Muslims Jews, Wiccans, Atheist, Men, Woman, Aged, Poor, Rich, Tall, Short, Parents, Neighbours, Strangers... yourself? That's a lot of people! Accountability is a willingness to explain your actions. Should I have to explain anything I want to think or write with strangers first? Might it not be better to debate controversial opinions instead of banning or punishing them? Galileo and his kind would have just as hard a time in this century, it seems.

 

Finally, focusing on some code of conduct that is unevenly enforced is a red herring. You can't be selective or it's inherently unfair.

 

I do think some of us on here are intolerant in our own ways, and that surprises me a bit, given this place.

[FunAdventures 4501]

I wonder if people would react differently had the comments been about another male in the class?

 

What about a 10 year old boy or girl?

 

What about an elderly grandmother?

 

I am seriously curious about this. I am not saying it would or it wouldn't, I just wonder.

 

For myself, it doesn't, as to me it's a matter of respect not gender.

[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

I have to object to that request. With all due respect To Doctor King and his legacy. To start blocking words because of some of their connection to vile acts of the past is the wrong way to go . Lynching is not just about the injustices of the south, it is a word/term that was around long before those times. If it causes you to shudder when you hear it, then perhaps look past posts that have included it. That's what I've been doing when I keep hearing and seeing the word "rape".

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/lynching/lynching_2.html

 

Miss Jane is an articulate and good member who has made a point, I hate seeing how she is constantly ganged up on when she makes it. I understand it, feel it's relevant and can understand her use of the word Lynch. I also know she means no disrespect to anyone when using the term other than to define a way that she feels these men are being publicly punished.

 

I am hearing the point loud and clear. I don't happen to agree with it, therefore I am exercising my right to make my point.

 

I don't agree with using those words in this context as they're a gross exaggeration IMO. I don't agree with the banning of the words on any day.

 

I do happen to agree with healthy debate and the right of all to voice their opinions.

 

There are people who have suffered real atrocity at the hands of others in the name of 'justice'. That is not what is happening here. Not even close.

 

These 13 have not had their hands cut off, or their feet hobbled. Certainly they haven't been lynched or slaughtered. Some people have.

 

So maybe they can't be dentists. They can type, flip burgers, change tires, and pour coffee as easily as the next guy.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Lose your job for posting a nasty private thought? The world is what you make it and a lack of tolerance makes for an awful world.

 

To sum up, It's good to be intolerant of the mistakes of others, the punishment should exceed the "crime" and personal accountability makes it all OK.

 

Got it! Some of you worry me more than those dentists!

[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

Lose your job for posting a nasty private thought? The world is what you make it and a lack of tolerance makes for an awful world.

 

To sum up, It's good to be intolerant of the mistakes of others, the punishment should exceed the "crime" and personal accountability makes it all OK.

 

Got it! Some of you worry me more than those dentists!

 

 

oh puuuuuulease.... nobody said any of that crap. Good grief.

 

Now, if I'd said chop off their hands and poke their eyes out so they can never ever type nasty hateful and violent things ever again... then I might have been suggesting that the punishment should exceed the crime.

 

I said they maybe can't be dentists... and what a drag. Sucks for them. Not for everyone else, just for them. They can do a whole host of other good, meaningful, useful and essential work.

 

That's what happens when you make a colossal fuk up like they did.

[OddSox 253]

What about the girls? Are they supposed to be comfortable with going to the same school and possibly even the same classes with the men who threatened to rape them? Even if the men's names aren't public, I'm sure that everybody in the school knows who it was. Dalhousie isn't a big school - even Halifax isn't a big enough town.

[fortunateone 156618]

What about the girls? Are they supposed to be comfortable with going to the same school and possibly even the same classes with the men who threatened to rape them? Even if the men's names aren't public, I'm sure that everybody in the school knows who it was. Dalhousie isn't a big school - even Halifax isn't a big enough town.

 

 

The class itself is 26 people i think? And they know some details about the guy who exposed the page, and they can probably guess the guys who were never invited. This is not a class of 700 where people really have anonymity.

 

The women have to sit side by side, they have to interact with, and they may have to share practical time with these guys who they are going to be either 100% sure did it, or only 50% sure, meaning they will have high level of distrust towards all of them.

 

It poisons the entire learning experience for all of the women students, and some of the male students. None of them are going to be able to focus on their work, that is, unless the ones involved happen to get expelled or redirected out of the main classes.

 

While banning a word may seem extreme, it almost sounds as those who object object on the basis of free speech as opposed to WHAT DOES THAT WORD REALLY MEAN.

 

The word 'y o u n g' is censored from this site, there is a sticky list of censored words. this is a recent event, the censoring of certain words that may be considered problematic. I didn't think it would be a huge stretch to include that particular word when it has been so misused and inappropriately used in this thread.

 

That i came back yesterday and read it being used again, and completely out of context for its origin, made me include that info. It is my firm belief that neither of the parties who like to use the word bothered to research the youtube song and the meaning behind it. it is a strong visual image that would have stopped them from reusing that word to describe young men who are being held accountable for their actions.

 

Not one of these young men are being rounded up by people in white sheets, they have not been chained to the back of a truck and dragged thru town, no one has burned a cross on their front lawns, no one spray painted swastikas on their front doors, and no, not a single one of them was dragged out of their homes and strung up by a rope on a nearby tree while people took photos and drank and made obscene comments.

 

So no, none of them have been lynched, and not a single person has even remotely come close to suggesting that they would be.

[FunAdventures 4501]

..... and I don't have any problem with anyone.. miss Jane included.. ...

 

My posts on here are not personal in anyway in fact I rather enjoy a good debate.

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

 

 

I couldn't agree more! Miss Jane previously answered some questions I had posed to her, and I did not mean any disrespect, I simply was curious.

 

Although I have a different view now, I used to be a huge advocate of privacy over anything else. I used to think I was alone when I was 'fighting the fight' Miss Jane is bravely voicing. I have changed my mind somewhere along the line, perhaps when I no longer felt it was my own privacy being breached.

 

It's hard to keep voicing your opinion when it seems no one listens and no one agrees. So I thank you Miss Jane for contributing. This thread would have been stale a long time ago without you! It's good to have a different side (though like many others, I don't necessarily agree with the analogies used). Don't be discouraged.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I am hearing the point loud and clear. I don't happen to agree with it, therefore I am exercising my right to make my point.

 

I don't agree with using those words in this context as they're a gross exaggeration IMO. I don't agree with the banning of the words on any day.

 

I do happen to agree with healthy debate and the right of all to voice their opinions.

 

There are people who have suffered real atrocity at the hands of others in the name of 'justice'. That is not what is happening here. Not even close.

 

These 13 have not had their hands cut off, or their feet hobbled. Certainly they haven't been lynched or slaughtered. Some people have. Not some, millions have. But what does this have to do with any of it? The term lynch I don't feel was used to infer anything having to do with the crimes of the south, so why compare them? No one else was. Nor do I believe that anyone has inferred that they are suffering like those people did.

 

 

So maybe they can't be dentists. They can type, flip burgers, change tires, and pour coffee as easily as the next guy.

It's good for all of us to voice our opinions here, to make comments, as long as they are given as opinions, and comments and not stated as facts or in a manner as one being right and the other wrong.

I can speak to having suffered an atrocity at the hands of another, not in the name of justice, but an atrocity none the less and as I had said in my previous post I didn't want his life ruined because of it. Some people deserve forgiveness, can change and sometimes become better because of it.

Believe me, rape is something you'll never forget, you don't forget the smells, the feel, the look of the person, you remember it forever, that's an atrocity, having to live with those memories. So if that can be forgiven, then perhaps those that spoke the words and not committed such an act too could be forgiven.

It is easy to be flippant about them doing something else, could you, would you? For some change isn't an easy thing, for some it's an impossible thing. None of us knows how much any of them are suffering, how sorry they are, how much this is affecting them, and no I'm not excusing their actions, nor forgetting about their victims. No one wins here but I do feel forgiveness is needed instead of persecuting them for a lifetime.

[Phaedrus 209521]

I propose, on this day of ALL days, that mod go in and make 'lynch' a forbidden word on this site.

 

I couldn't disagree more. It might be entirely unnecessary hyperbole, but as such it simply weakens the argument being made by whoever's doing it at the time. By contrast, censorship strengthens a weak argument and makes it appear far more powerful and influential than might otherwise be the case.

 

I find the continued use of it highly offensive, especially after it's origins were discussed fully.

 

If people offend you, block them so you don't have to be troubled by their posts any more. But please don't presume to make that judgement for the rest of us.

 

Lose your job for posting a nasty private thought? The world is what you make it and a lack of tolerance makes for an awful world.

 

Love it or loathe it, it happens on a regular basis these days. Ask Brendan Eich or Justine Sacco, to give a couple of recent examples (there are many others). The Internet means you can talk to the whole world... even - and perhaps especially - when in retrospect you'd rather not.

[LeeRichards 177238]

Oh Shit !!!! Clicked on the wrong thread there apparently !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I was just wondering if I should buy a PC or a Mac laptop on Thursday on my annual personal shopping spree