Preventing Muslim radicalization of Canadian young people

[Guest S****r]

Radicalism should worry us all, no matter what religion or source it stems from. I think this is certainly an important discussion and one that should be of interest to this forum, especially and since the highest populous of Muslims are in Ontario and is growing fast as is the religion of Islam. I can't pretend to understand it completely, or any religion for that matter. As I'm a believer that all sentient beings are equal and should be treated so.

What confuses me most is how we( North Americans) send men and women to fight against particular beliefs in other countries and then we allow citizens from those countries into ours in which they then are allowed to practice the same beliefs in the same way.

Perhaps that's the democratic way, imo though, this is what causes radicals. As one religion, one group, will always feel their ways are the right ways and fight to lead. In these groups will always be the lonely, angry, directionless and violence driven, it is to them, regardless of age, that radicals prey.

I don't know the answers to eradicating or controlling them, but I don't think the ones within the particular religion are best suited to. I think a perfect example of this would be our own government. I deem evangelical Christians to be radicals and look at what they've done to our laws and how they distort democracy.

Perhaps the answers aren't within a particular religion, but in morale building. Perhaps we need to better understand humanity, it's needs and become better at promoting love, acceptance, willingness to share, etc.

But that is expecting a lot.

[PatrickGC 10792]

I think the world has come to a point in history where the function and purpose of organized faith must be re-examined. (Perhaps for some for the very first time.) No longer can we afford to blindly adopted teachings of any sort with a verbatim application to life.

 

This does not mean the loss of spiritualism, but rather, a refocusing of where the responsibilities lie. We must be, our own teachers for both the individual, the communities we live in and ultimately the world. This is a long-winded way of saying that the buck stops here on earth, with the good old human race and while we are all alive. A friend of mine asserted that: "We need religion in order to give us a moral direction." This statement, not so subtly implies that the human race needs a baby sitter and that we do not know right from wrong. I suggest, this belief was ingrained in early communities in order to control them, but that was a very different world and one that is unimaginable to the modern person. At this point in time we must find our own way and realize that the human race is indeed not in the center of the galaxy. We must grow up emotionally and not do the "right thing" because of some reward after death. Which is an inherently greedy motivation that usually backfires as current history will attest.

 

Unfortunately, in the 21st century, people, groups and governments have come up with a new religion which once again takes responsibility for one's actions away from the individual [and people often do this willingly] it's called "Political Correctness". Different label, but on a social level it is the same animal. Again it takes responsibility away from the person. A placebo to make things comfortable for the moment. But rarely if ever solves anything. It can actually be used to do great harm but because an action is phrased in a nice politically acceptable tone people not only except it they may actually defend the action without thinking on a deeper level. Look at the crazy and insane arguments for Bill C-36. That is the phrasing of political correctness in action.

 

In short: People must reengage their critical thinking and realize that there is no all-encompassing answer to simplify life. What we can do is be responsible for our own actions and the effect we have on others. The hereafter -- can we afford to be concerned about it, when there is so much in here and now which we can change for sure?

 

A very interesting book on the issues raised in this thread and one which I highly recommend it is: "The End of Faith" by by Sam Harris. To be clear this is not just a believe bashing book. Rather, it asks much larger and broader questions about beliefs in general and all of the major religions are challenged as to their core motivations.

 

I listened to the eight disk unabridged audio version. Here are the details for both printed and audio copies.

 

 

Audio CD Audiobook

Publisher: Blackstone Audio Inc.; Unabridged edition (November 15, 2006)

Language: English

Read by: Brian Emerson

ISBN-10: 0786158387

ISBN-13: 978-0786158348

 

Paperback: 348 pages

Publisher: W. W. Norton (September 17, 2005)

Language: English

ISBN-10: 0393327655

ISBN-13: 978-0393327656

 

Natalie Angier wrote in The New York Times: "The End of Faith articulates the dangers and absurdities of organized religion so fiercely and so fearlessly that I felt relieved as I read it, vindicated....Harris writes what a sizable number of us think, but few are willing to say."

 

This important and timely book delivers a startling analysis of the clash of faith and reason in today's world. Harris offers a vivid historical tour of mankind's willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs, even when those beliefs are used to justify harmful behavior and sometimes-heinous crimes. He asserts that in the shadow of weapons of mass destruction, we can no longer tolerate views that pit one true god against another. Most controversially, he argues that we cannot afford moderate lip service to religion; an accommodation that only blinds us to the real perils of fundamentalism. While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris also draws on new evidence from neuroscience and insights from philosophy to explore spirituality as a biological, brain-based need. He calls on us to invoke that need in taking a secular humanistic approach to solving the problems of this world.

PatrickGC

[Ice4fun 78407]

To make this issue about faith of whatever brand is to miss the entire problem this is an issue of radicalisms of islamic people around the world but it is not a religious issue.

 

It is a political issue related to power and control... it has been happening for many many year but as long the Islamic radicals were just killing each other and were operating in areas of the world where the west had no strategic issue (ie no oil) we did not give a shit.

 

Now this disenchantment by politically oppressed groups who are using religion as a rallying cry is important because the violence is in our back yard and affecting strategic areas.

 

These political groups are using religion to reach out to people who feel oppressed to tell them that they are not alone and they have used very slick social media approaches that have caught the attention of youth in western countries who feel marginalized and unimportant.

 

Do we really care about these few thousand radicals in western countries... No... our concern is that it is so much harder to fight terror from within then it is to bomb terrorists in other parts of the world.

 

The issues in the countries where this radical approach is playing out Syria, Egypt, Iraq and a number of African countries are political and social issues and relate to the age old reason men fight wars... power and control.

 

On the local front we need to support and encourage muslim leaders to continue to speak up and we need to look at t!he social and economic conditions that are creating fertile breeding grounds for the disenfranchised.

 

This is not about religion

 

Just my Opinion

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

[VedaSloan 119179]

As Cristy pointed out, extremism occurs in every major religion and there is a good chunk of Islamaphobia accompanying most stories of "terrorism" (including the OP's post). And yet, it is rarely pointed out that Timothy McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic or that he identified as agnostic because those facts are seen as irrelevant to why he bombed the Oklahoma federal building. If we treated McVeigh the same way we treat those terrorists assumed connected to Islam, we'd be railing on about the terrors of Catholic teachings. DID YOU KNOW THEY EAT THE BODY OF CHRIST?!

 

I honestly think we have bigger issues to worry about than the potential for Canadian y*outh to be seduced by big bad Islam.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

I'm sorry, I don't believe the hype.

Before we had misogynist extremism with the Montreal Massacre.

Before we had Quebecois extremism with the FLQ.

Extremism exists everywhere.

My kid's best friends with a Muslim and I'm glad s/he is because it keeps

her/him out of trouble: no drinking, no drugs, keep up her/his grades.

 

If Canada had a balanced Middle East policy as we used to at one time,

then we'd be fine, but no, the Harper government is pro-Israeli come hell

or high water, so really, it's just BLOWBACK.

 

I don't give a shit about youths going abroad to fight for whatever because

they won't be coming back, either because they're dead or they're banned

from returning. As for domestic "terrorist" attacks, you've got to admit they've

been pretty lame; crimes of course but "acts of terrorism"? That's a stretch.

And I'm pretty disgusted by how Harper used these crimes to further his agenda.

 

I'm not going to let the Muslim bogeyman rob me of my personal freedom.

Sure, if they do happen to set off a major terrorist event in Canada then

get back to me on that as I'll be mad as hell, but laws can't be tightened

much more than they already are.

 

If I were Muslim I'd be pretty pissed at what the west, and in particular

America, has done in the Muslim world. America has killed so many brown

people in its mad quest for resource dominance, it makes you wonder if things

have really changed that much since the Brits killed the brown people here

for their resources. The best thing to reduce Islamic radicalism would be to

get the fuck out of their countries, but that's never going to happen.

 

When you think about it, Muslim extremism in the west has killed very few

people relative to the murder and mayhem America and its stooge allies (us included)

have wreaked on the Islamic world (this includes 9/11). As long as we're fucking

with their countries, they'll be fucking with ours.

 

To be honest, I was a pretty Muslim-hating dude immediately after 9/11 and seriously

considered joining the forces to kick some turban ass (and yes I know turbans are

probably more of a Sikh thing than Muslim, but what the hell it sounds good).

But my attitude swung 180 degrees after the States invaded Iraq for no good reason

the second time around in 2003. I really got anti-American after reading about the

slaughter which happened in Fallujah. I've mellowed out since then, but I can't blame

Muslims for being pissed.

 

I will say that if they think they can come to Canada and remove my right to make fun of

any God, including theirs, they've got another thing coming. If they can't make fun of their

God then that's their problem, not mine.

 

What can you do? You can't outlaw lunacy.

 

Maybe the situation calls for some intermarriage with Muslim hotties!

[Phaedrus 209521]

There will always be people (often guys, often in their late teens or early twenties) who are, for whatever reason, filled with rage and out for revenge. This seems to be an unfortunate but inescapable part of human nature. Such people will lash out at society, somehow, and will do so in the name of whatever cause happens to be convenient at the time. Right now, radical Islam seems to be popular with such people. But it hasn't been in the past, and something else will probably replace it in the future.

 

I've heard - and find it very plausible - that some of the would-be jihadis arriving in Syria have proven to be thoroughly ignorant about the religion they claim to follow. For these folks, it's not the religion that matters; it's the fight, and when it comes down to it, any cause will do.

[Guest D***el B***e]

There's no better way to cause controversy, even here on Lyla, than using the words politics and religion in the same sentence. You're all controversial by the mere fact you're trying to explain your position and it takes you forever to do that, trying to weigh your every word. Just look at the length of all your posts. OMG, as if I'm supposed to read them all and then formulate a comment on it. I don't think that's going to happen. This is the perfect recipe for a thread with a short life.. A few more posts and then it dies with all the other ones.

[MightyPen 67414]

During the 80s and early 90s I recall that many Irish youths were joining the IRA, and money flowed to that terrorist organization from Irish communities scattered throughout the West. I wouldn't be surprised if a number of "radicalized" Irish Canadians and Americans went over to Ireland to join the cause.

 

I don't remember anyone recommending special "peaceful true Catholicism" classes for Irish youths at the time.

 

It's needless xenophobia that explains the difference.

 

Just look at the length of all your posts. OMG, as if I'm supposed to read them all and then formulate a comment on it. I don't think that's going to happen.

Don't worry; if you're not interested, your participation is not required.

[CristyCurves 169032]

During the 80s and early 90s I recall that many Irish youths were joining the IRA, and money flowed to that terrorist organization from Irish communities scattered throughout the West. I wouldn't be surprised if a number of "radicalized" Irish Canadians and Americans went over to Ireland to join the cause.

 

I don't remember anyone recommending special "peaceful true Catholicism" classes for Irish youths at the time.

 

It's needless xenophobia that explains the difference.

 

 

Don't worry; if you're not interested, your participation is not required.

 

You may be right and you make a good point, especially your last one, lol, very eloquent, thank you.

 

But perhaps the concern for some is that all the terrorism committed by Muslims has been made in the name of Allah. So, many see it as a religious rebellion and fight, not political. Funny that you mention Ireland, as it has the fastest growing Muslim population next to Canada so there may be further conflict in Irelands future. Perhaps part of the fear mongering towards Muslins and Islam is because Islam is the fastest growing religion, many believe it will surpass Christianity, and perhaps take it over. That scares many, hence, fear mongering, then you get radicalization, hence, radicals.

[MightyPen 67414]

But perhaps the concern for some is that all the terrorism committed by Muslims has been made in the name of Allah. So, many see it as a religious rebellion and fight, not political.

Absolutely Cristy. But the Irish "Troubles" stemmed from a division not just between the two political entities of Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, but between the Protestant and Catholic identities of their respective populations.

 

There were intensely religious factions within these groups; and Protestant pastor Clifford Peeples, the leader of the Orange Volunteers, justified attacking Catholic churches as part of the conflict because they were "bastions of the Antichrist".

 

An interesting read: Religion, Identity and Politics in Northern Ireland

 

Was the Irish conflict a holy war? Absolutely not. But neither is the battle fought by ISIS. They use religious language as a recruiting tool with conveniently absolute language. But their leader's ambitions are specifically and publicly stated to be for political control over the Middle East.

 

Other than that -- the spread of Islam is fine with me. Christian, Muslim, Jewish -- they're all fundamentally (haha!) the same. The more the merrier, if it helps them form strong communities and they live within the law.

[LadiesFirst 848]

Very interesting talk people thank you.

 

I am ignorant of the whole issue and not very religions (probably shouldn't comment).

 

Curious, are these the religions that cover up their women in sheets (Muslims and Islam)? Why? Seriously, I could spend all day and night and not think of a more back asswards way of living life.

 

How angry would Canada be if we woke up and all of our beautiful women were dressed like mummy's? God, I would be irritable to say the least.

 

Oh well suppose it has been that way a while. I just feel somehow if all the Islamic and Muslim women of the world were treated as equals to the men and perhaps the world could send aid in the form of Victoria's Secret, Ester Lauder, Redkin and Gillette, then their men, like us will have something more pleasurable to focus on!

 

Sorry for posting an ignorant, simplistic view... But females control my actions and drive me. Sure it's not a silver bullet but a big dose of women's rights could go a long way to cutting down on the anger that seems to manifest in certain religions and parts of the world. Then when we produce our next home grown lunatic they will have less causes to run to or join.....

[oldblueeyez 15475]

Curious, are these the religions that cover up their women in sheets (Muslims and Islam)? Why? Seriously, I could spend all day and night and not think of a more back asswards way of living life.

 

Yes, it seems backwards ass to us, but who are we to slam cultures thousands of years old? They may be forced to do it in their countries, but in Canada they have a choice and if their choice is to cover themselves, then who gives a flying fuck?

 

But females control my actions and drive me.

 

Females drive all of us, but only you are in absolute control of your actions. Never forget that.

 

 

And since I'm great at going off on tangents, the Putin/Russian bogeyman doesn't scare me either.

Sometimes you have to check-out of the mass media as that media is meant to control the masses.

[loopie 15358]

Every culture has its idea of modesty.

 

Women in western countries don't walk around nude. They're still expected to cover certain parts of their bodies or face legal penalties for indecent exposure.

[LadiesFirst 848]

Yes, it seems backwards ass to us, but who are we to slam cultures thousands of years old? They may be forced to do it in their countries, but in Canada they have a choice and if their choice is to cover themselves, then who gives a flying fuck?

 

 

 

Females drive all of us, but only you are in absolute control of your actions. Never forget that.

 

 

And since I'm great at going off on tangents, the Putin/Russian bogeyman doesn't scare me either.

Sometimes you have to check-out of the mass media as that media is meant to control the masses.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm,

 

Not sure if the URL works... I'm certainly not trying to stop any one from doing what makes them happy. It's just some things.... Wow!!! Not referring to Canada for sure, because here you are correct

It was stupid of me to talk a about religion, I apologize. Frankly, I will never understand any of them. I just try to stick with the "do unto others" rule. And of course, worshipping like a dog at the shrine of LYLA.

[piano8950 32577]

I've mentioned it a few times here before - I'm Muslim. Not a particularly religious one, but then again, no one in my immediate family really is, except my mom. I know many Muslims of varying levels of faith and devotion to religion.

 

And every one of them agrees that this is an incredibly complex issue of which there are no simple answers. The terrorists that come from Muslim families here are the easiest ones to fix. The last few years have jolted the Muslim community to talk to the younger generation more about being involved in society, form relationships with those who aren't Muslim, learn from them and teach them. A good number of Muslim youth are already doing that, I did it. But you have families that are more secluded for a variety of reasons. Parents are legitimately scared, they are scared of Islamophobic incidents (which often go unreported), and they are now scared about their kids picking up the worst of Islam on the internet, beyond their abilities of supervision.

 

Then you have the recent converts to Islam who are for whatever reason, inspired by the violent interpretation of ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the rest of the terrorists douchebags. One idea that's floating around is to increase the prominence of a peaceful, coexisting vision of Islam, so that whoever wants to look into the religion don't get the ISIS version of it.

 

In the end, I can say this for sure. There are many ideas, some are decent, some not. I don't know what it will take to fix the problem.