How do you view hobbying - A party with a guest or pay for sex

[Capital Hunter 18263]

It is an error to equate "paying for sex" with "not valuing" or "not respecting" the ladies.

 

To be clearer

 

I don't know where did this come from but nobody even hinted that.

 

Treat them like guests all I said not hired employees. Greet them at the door, welcome them. smile at them. walk them to and from elevator, wine or dine them. Chocolate them. flower them, buy them small gifts, hug them and kiss them. Make them feel at home. Make them feel beautiful and happy. Make sure they enjoy their time or do your best to ensure that.. ..... Do I need to go on???.

[fortunateone 156618]

I don't hire SPs OutForFun!!!!. I invite the ladies to be guests in my house and she is treated like one not like an employee lol. In my PM/email I communicate with them the fact that they are invited as guests (i.e I always say I can have guests on weekends) and if they can make it for certain time and date

 

kissing/hugging/cuddling is not the minimum but is all I expect. The rest (FS) is icing on the cake, so to speak, if the lady decides to grant the service. I ask them if they would like to accompany me to the bedroom and it is their choice if they do. What would you suggest me to say or do instead that I don"t do OutForFun?? Isn't that how you would ask your girlfriend too lol?.

 

If the lady has a no-kissing policy for whatever reason, she can of course decline the invitation in her PM/email lol.

 

 

It would be my opinion that the sps contacted simply feel that you have a quirky or interesting way of setting up an appt. I highly doubt that that it seriously crosses their mind that sex is not part of the package. When you do invite them to the bedroom, I do not think that any one of them sees this as any symbolic, but simply the second half of the appt. I think you are overthinking and putting something into it that really is not there.

 

In other words, they have already decided before they met you that things are going to progress to the bedroom. There is no "decision" or "connection" made after arrival as I am pretty sure not one of them considers the donation as just paying for their time and companionship, and that the next stage is what progresses naturally if they were on a real date. In other words, if it were a real date and they really did believe that they could leave no questions asked full donation in hand because they just weren't feeling it, they would.

 

Additional Comments:

To be clearer

 

I don't know where did this come from but nobody even hinted that.

 

Treat them like guests all I said not hired employees. Greet them at the door, welcome them. smile at them. walk them to and from elevator, wine or dine them. Chocolate them. flower them, buy them small gifts, hug them and kiss them. Make them feel at home. Make them feel beautiful and happy. Make sure they enjoy their time or do your best to ensure that.. ..... Do I need to go on???.

 

 

I think I have had the pleasure of being treated well by almost every visitor, but still take care of the biz first. It does not seem to me that the two are at a conflict, but I have never felt the need to dress things up fancy (like in an unsealed envelope, laid by the door, untouched (and unchecked lol) or no discussion of services and rates, as tho none of that is taking place nor is it why I was contacted in the first place) I find the entire experience, from contact to discussion to settling up to that main event part of the process, and also, part of what helps clearly define the boundaries and lines and rules of engagement. Without clear discussions, and clear acceptance of payment and clearly outlined schedule of events, far too many clients have the potential of losing it into a fantasy world of thinking something is happening that is not: a good time is not a love match or connection. Someone who is good at what they do should make him feel like wonderful, but then they part company and he goes his way and she goes her. No illusions, and no need for more.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Glad to hear that the subtext I feared might be there, isn't. Thanks, SA!

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I am glad that I could clarify this WrinkledInTime and you are welcome.

 

fortunateone, I am not sure I understand the second part of your post (likely me, too late at night) but regarding the first part of your post, when I communicate with the ladies,

 

1 - I do tell them about the amount of the donations and that fact that the donation is for their time and companionship ONLY in ALL my PMs/emails.

2 - I also tell them that I am an outcall only person for legal reasons (as some are doing incalls only).

3 -I also tell them that everything will be covered (no bbb whatever) for safety reasons and

4- I tell them also that I love kissing and hugging and this is an expected service and ask them if they would provide that service.

5-There is NOT a single word about FS or sex.

6- I tell them all this when inviting them as guests (I tell them I can have guests only weekends).

 

I play it strickly by the book, so to speak to ensure the of PM/email and subsequent interaction are both completely legal and safe. And btw, the open envelop is right before them on the table next to the chocolate gift where thet can see upon arrival.

 

When they are here as guests after chatting and chocolate and wineing I ask them (in the form of a question) if they would like to accompany me to the bedroom. It is their decision to make.

[Annessa 22743]

this thread literally has my head going in circles. Mainly because I dont understand the point of it even after so many pages

 

-none of the girls are offended by being "hired" nor take offence to FS being part of the equation

 

-no member seems to be disagreeing that he is paying for a lady's time and companionship..but agrees with the ladies that sex is part of the job...but is polite about it

 

it is what it is.....you approach it how you want to SA but from what I gather you cant separate both "inviting an SP over" and "realizing that by doing so you are paying her for sex" and ask if whether one is different from the other.

 

Its like saying when you go to Baskin & Robins do you go only because you love the feeling of being around ice-cream and enjoying it...or do you only associate B&R with having to pay $2 for your ice-cream fix....and asking which is the right way to interpret it.... most people would look at you and say...huh? isnt it expected that if you go to there you will have to pay? arent both scenarios technically the same?

 

they're both the same....and everyone here except you seems to be ok with that for some reason. I'm really surprised this turned into such a defensive thread on your part. Just accept the way you do things and move on already, my goodness. My brain hurts now and I do agree that you may be trying not only to convince us but yourself that hiring -I men "inviting over a gal" is more than what money can buy.

 

all that being said I now have a craving for icecream....argh

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Sex workers and their clients are highly stigmatized and so I think it's normal for one to want to separate him or herself, though it is also delusional.

 

When I first started stripping, I told myself and others "Well you see, there is no penetration and no exchange of bodily fluids, so it's not prostitution." Yeah I rub my nude body all over guys, but I'm not like those nasty prostitutes was essentially what I was saying. Over time, I have accepted that I am just like escorts. Sure, I don't offer FS or BJ, but it's pretty damn close and ultimately not really that different. There is no need to distinguish myself as a way of justifying my work. I accept that I am a sex worker and there is nothing wrong with this!

 

I feel this is what you are trying to do, S_A. There is also a lot of stigma surrounding clients. "You're so low class to hire a prostitute. You're paying for sex because you can't get any in real life. I can't believe you would sleep with a hooker. Did she give you a disease?" I have heard so many clients say things like "I'm not like the rest of the guys you see" assuming all the guys I see are creepy assholes which is simply not true! There is the need to distinguish himself.

 

Maybe it makes you feel better to say "She's a guest in my home and if she likes me and wants to be intimate with me, then she may" but ultimately you are paying for sex and there is nothing wrong with this. I'm a lot happier now that I've stopped constantly justifying myself by distinguishing myself from hookers, and maybe you would be happier if you accepted what you are doing and stopped distinguishing yourself from a John.

 

I just woke up so forgive me if this is not perfectly clear.

[Annessa 22743]

Sex workers and their clients are highly stigmatized and so I think it's normal for one to want to separate him or herself' date=' though it is also delusional.

 

When I first started stripping, I told myself and others "Well you see, there is no penetration and no exchange of bodily fluids, so it's not prostitution." Yeah I rub my nude body all over guys, but I'm not like those nasty prostitutes was essentially what I was saying. Over time, I have accepted that I am just like escorts. Sure, I don't offer FS or BJ, but it's pretty damn close and ultimately not really that different. There is no need to distinguish myself as a way of justifying my work. I accept that I am a sex worker and there is nothing wrong with this!

 

I feel this is what you are trying to do, S_A. There is also a lot of stigma surrounding clients. "You're so low class to hire a prostitute. You're paying for sex because you can't get any in real life. I can't believe you would sleep with a hooker. Did she give you a disease?" I have heard so many clients say things like "I'm not like the rest of the guys you see" assuming all the guys I see are creepy assholes which is simply not true! There is the need to distinguish himself.

 

Maybe it makes you feel better to say "She's a guest in my home and if she likes me and wants to be intimate with me, then she may" but ultimately you are paying for sex [i']and there is nothing wrong with this. [/i]I'm a lot happier now that I've stopped constantly justifying myself by distinguishing myself from hookers, and maybe you would be happier if you accepted what you are doing and stopped distinguishing yourself from a John.

 

I just woke up so forgive me if this is not perfectly clear.

 

you said it perfectly Megan. could not have said it better myself. There is no need to justify or separate how we view what we do from what others view it as. As long as we're all comfortable with it, there is no need to try and call it something else. well put :-)

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Thank you both Megan and Annessa for your comments and views. I am sure I will be reading all the posts (not on my day off though), including yours quit a few times and form an opinion on the original question of the thread which was "How hobbying is viewed by cerbites, as a date (rendezvous), or paying for sex" by both hobbyists and SPs. The thread was not about me, my views or how right or wrong my views may be. Nor was it about the right or wrong of pay for sex.

 

This (daring) thread however, was received quite well as many cerbites both SPs and hobbyists participated and expressed their views. I am glad I started this highly rated and may be controversial thread. My only regret, I wish I had structured it in the form of an anonymous poll as would have been easier to see the results on the question at a glance as well as of course reading the comments. The consensus appears to be on the perception of the pay for sex rather than pay for date from those who commented but the fact remains that many may have refrained from commenting for the other side for their own reasons.

 

My opinion thus far is that our perception about what we do in life is different from one another but it is a choice that one has the right to make. Though the reality may be paying for sex, If we (those of us on the other side of this debate) are happier to see our time together as date (rendezvous) and guest why should we change my perception to something that we may not be as happy with (surely someone else is not deciding what we should or should not be happier with)?. Afterall is that not why we call ourselves hobbyists and service providers instead of Johns and hookers all over the board by most may be all members?. It is all about perception and the choices we make in life in order to be happy or feel happier.

 

Happy Canada Day everyone:D. Lets celebrate the birth of the best country in the world dear cerbites.

[777flyer 1612]

Folks

 

HAPPY CANADA DAY !!

 

Let's be realistic here,

 

We are all paying for sex....period..... full stop, no arguments......

 

If you don't believe that, give your head a shake and get a reality check..

 

HOWEVER..........

 

As I said in my reply, Sex is the end goal of the rendezvous.....What separates peoples experiences is either :

 

1.) They want to simply meet someone, and have sex and a quick release and then go on their merry way.

 

2.) Others, myself included, see the WHOLE experience as being important, leading up to the sex part.....which is of course what I am ultimately paying for.

 

So, let's be realistic.......the end game we all agree on, it' the MEANS of achieving the end game that differs for all of us.......

 

OK....back to Canada Day !!

[Suzirider 737]

Though the reality may be paying for sex, If I am happier to see our time together as date (rendezvous) and guest why should I change my perception to something that I may not be as happy with

 

I call it " helping a girlfriend pay the bills".

And, just like a BFE, sometimes I forget My tools, and can't do the job ! :oops:

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Flyer, happy Canada Day to you too.

 

The reason I call it pay for date rather than pay for sex is because in my case at least (and likely many others) in my many rendezvous dates there was no sex with SP dancers but paid as well for the date. In many cases I took them to dinner dates and paid for dinner or bars and paid for drinks and that was all, driving them back to their home and saying good bye. I started hobbying only 2 years ago before that and for many (10) years I was going to SCs and dating dancers (yes few became my GF eventually and most my friends but still I paid for their time and companionship with no sex and still do this now and quite frequently lol) and I am sure that are many others who have a date without sex too. BTW, to me dancers and masseuses are service providers too. If you consider kisses and huggings as sex (as some do) then yes I was/am paying for sex,we all do, even when I took them out I still kissed them lol. However, this thread was not about me and was a question to cerbites as how they perceive hobbying and it appears that the result is a yes is on the side of pay for sex, assuming that the other side was not a silent majority lol. Wish it was a poll lol.

 

Additional Comments:

I call it " helping a girlfriend pay the bills"

 

That is another way of looking at it and a great one too. As I said we all have different perceptions on what we do. We should choose the one that makes us happier than others.

[Cowboy kenny 50799]

I have to chime in on this one, I've been watching this thread go on and on, it's dizzying!

 

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... IT'S A DUCK! SPs provide sex for money and that's ok.

 

There is no shame in this hobby/profession, if a person feels shame then maybe this is not the right hobby or profession them.

 

There should be no reason to pretend that sex doesn't occur nor that it's expected.

 

I like my accountant, but I'm not going to invite him to my home to review my finances and investments then turn to him and say "hey let's watch some tv for a while" I'm paying him to balance the books and keep CRA off my back, and he does it quite well. Like wise when I invite a an SP to my house the last thing I'm going to do is watch tv, I have plenty of friends to socialize with but when I've asked an sp to join me for some company there better be some Giddy up goin on with my buckaroo otherwise I'm gonna be one upset cowboy.

 

We are all here on this board because we pay for , or provide sex for money. Plain and simple.

[Cato 160314]

Great thread, SA! And thanks to all for your contributions.

 

I try not to be too philosophical about this, but simply to have total immersion and enjoyment of the experience. But here's my take.

Like anything else in life, the attitude you adopt toward something determines its meaning, what it is. Of course there are material and economic preconditions. The experience wouldn't be happening without the commercial exchange, but that's just the entry ticket. What happens next, how it feels and what it contributes to your happiness, is not determined by these conditions. You can chose to think of it just in terms of the basic economic transaction, or you can see that transaction as opening up other possibilities of interaction with a new and fascinating person, who is also skilled at the art of pleasure. But that's a free choice, and that's what makes the experience what it is for you.

I've said this before, but in the past year and a half I've never met an sp I didn't like, and enjoy to the full. I love getting to know the person, talking and laughing together, and the intimacy that can feel and be real, though conditional. Once we accept that there are conditions and limits, the rest is up to us. And we don't have to reduce the experience to its preconditions.

The art of pleasure isn't just lovemaking itself, but everything that surrounds it, including the attitudes and expectations we bring with us to the meeting.

We're free to make of this what we want.

[777flyer 1612]

SA !

 

My comments weren't meant to berate you in anyway, I am a firm believer that people receive pleasure and satisfaction in many different ways.....and I never judge anyone for that.......kudos to you for what you do, and the healthy outlook you have in this hobby.....

 

Cowboy kenny !!

 

I MUST draw the line at Accountants........

 

I never get my moneys worth and they are always SCREWING me, although I am the one paying them.......and I never get any satisfaction.... i just keep paying..... :ablow:

 

SNK.....

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Like anything else in life, the attitude you adopt toward something determines its meaning, what it is .

 

So well said Cato. This is the sentence I have been looking for all along (and never came to my mind) and in my view is the best sentence of the entire thread.

 

We're free to make of this what we want.

 

Absolutely right again and thanks again.

 

 

Like anything else in life, the attitude you adopt toward something determines its meaning, what it is. Of course there are material and economic preconditions. The experience wouldn't be happening without the commercial exchange, but that's just the entry ticket. What happens next, how it feels and what it contributes to your happiness, is not determined by these conditions. You can chose to think of it just in terms of the basic economic transaction, or you can see that transaction as opening up other possibilities of interaction with a new and fascinating person, who is also skilled at the art of pleasure. But that's a free choice, and that's what makes the experience what it is for you.

I've said this before, but in the past year and a half I've never met an sp I didn't like, and enjoy to the full. I love getting to know the person, talking and laughing together, and the intimacy that can feel and be real, though conditional. Once we accept that there are conditions and limits, the rest is up to us. And we don't have to reduce the experience to its preconditions.

The art of pleasure isn't just lovemaking itself, but everything that surrounds it, including the attitudes and expectations we bring with us to the meeting. .

 

You are the great writer I wished to be who unlike me can convey clearly what is in your mind to others.

 

 

Cheers.

[Cato 160314]

Thanks very much, SA.

I disagree, though. Your posts are always very heartfelt and sincere.

[masterowls 249]

Ok, so you hire SP's expecting at minimum hugging, cuddling and kissing. I believe that the vast majority of other hobbyists hire them expecting FS sex. Thus I have found that SP's view the offering of FS sex to be the cornerstone of their job and as such make it a practice to ensure they offer it to clients. The vast majority of ladies I've met in fact take great pride in their job. Thus I would expect that most will follow you into the bedroom as they view it as part of the job.

I tend to agree with you. The vast majority of clients do expect sex. However, I find at least for myself, sex without kissing and cuddling, purely mechanical and largely unsatisfying, so I would say that a little cuddling is also part of the job. At least in my case. I also agree that most paid companions do take pride in providing excellent service, and will do almost anything they consider reasonable to make the client happy. That's how a client become a regular client.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

Funny to me how this same theme has come up twice in about a month.. about cuddling, kissing a provider and then there may or may not be "full service required" and what the thoughts are on that.

 

I know SA you say this is not about you personally but you have provided your experiences.. so I feel free to once again comment on them. Hope you don't mind.

 

I'm wondering now if your foray into the world of seeing escorts came from initially visiting with dancers and for how long.

 

I'm not a dancer but over the last decade or more it seems that they've encountered a strong pressure to provide sexual acts over and above the previous no touch rule... many also providing ''take out'' service... which is what it sounds like you've been receiving at your home. I would imagine this is much more preferable than getting a private dance in the club and can definitely see why you'd enjoy that.

 

If this is the case and your primary experience has come from this background before outright hiring an escort you've only met online.. there in lies the difference and may be what confuses you now that you've met a few escorts who are not dancers.

 

Keep in mind that many hobbyiests don't have this background and many in fact never venture into strip clubs never mind have the opportunity to have one visit their home.. so they don't have the same experience you do.

 

Also keep in mind that this type of GFE phenomenon is rather new to the escort world and really only been coined and discussed since the internet boom.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

I'm not a dancer but over the last decade or more it seems that they've encountered a strong pressure to provide sexual acts over and above the previous no touch rule... many also providing ''take out'' service... which is what it sounds like you've been receiving at your home. I would imagine this is much more preferable than getting a private dance in the club and can definitely see why you'd enjoy that.

There is a lot of contact at strip clubs, which is legal, but surprisingly not much sex going on in or outside the club. I think a lot of guys like to brag and that can skew what is actually going on.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Funny to me how this same theme has come up twice in about a month.. about cuddling, kissing a provider and then there may or may not be "full service required" and what the thoughts are on that. .

 

When or where was the other time - By another hobbyist??

 

I know SA you say this is not about you personally .

 

Yes correct. The thread is about how cerbites in general view hobbying as date (rendezvous) or pay for sex. I am just a very small component of that (one of many cerbites) who appearred daring to express my views bluntly on the other side of debate. That was why the focus.

 

I'm wondering now if your foray into the world of seeing escorts came from initially visiting with dancers and for how long. .

 

I was an SC fan for 12 years (please read my threads on coparative review of strip bars... and who are your favorite dancers.... in the strip bar section, if interested). and about two years ago I gradually switched to escorts. I still have private dances but much less frequent as they are relatively (sometimes a lot) more expensive than escorts.

 

I'm not a dancer but over the last decade or more it seems that they've encountered a strong pressure ....many also providing ''take out'' service... which is what it sounds like you've been receiving at your home. I would imagine this is much more preferable than getting a private dance in the club and can definitely see why you'd enjoy that. .

 

I don't think they are pressured in any way. I have met many in the SCs and we know each other for years (first talking in the bars, dances, sharing drinks, may be dinners too) and then they (being relatively conservative compared to escorts) accept willingly my invitation to be guests in my house and overwhelmingly very much enjoyed it and eagor to come back. Our encounters have been awesome and a real GF experience (as I mentioned to me GFE is not about sex or a list of services but rather the emotional bond and attachment you feel with another lady). And yes private dance is much more pleasurable than dance in the club.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

.

I don't think they are pressured in any way. I have met many in the SCs and we know each other for years (first talking in the bars, dances, sharing drinks, may be dinners too) and then they (being relatively conservative compared to escorts) accept willingly my invitation to be guests in my house and overwhelmingly very much enjoyed it and eagor to come back. Our encounters have been awesome and a real GF experience (as I mentioned to me GFE is not about sex or a list of services but rather the emotional bond and attachment you feel with another lady). And yes private dance is much more pleasurable than dance in the club.

 

I didn't mean pressured individually by you or any other patron.. I meant in general to make ends meet and it's highly competitive.

 

okay.. so one more question if you don't mind. You implied that these guests were still paid.. how do you arrange that out of curiousity.. do they bring it up after you invite them that they need to be paid for their time or do you when you invite them?

 

additional comment: I have emotional bonds/attachment to clients without kissing .. just an FYI.. I also had my longest relationship with a man who didn't enjoy kissing and we were very much in love... 6 years. Intimacy/attachment is possible in many many different ways... but you do in fact put that on your list of requirements for an encounter.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

There is a lot of contact at strip clubs' date=' which is legal, but surprisingly not much sex going on in or outside the club. I think a lot of guys like to brag and that can skew what is actually going on.[/quote']

 

I confirm this and I have been very clear myself that my experiences did not include sex with dancers.

 

Additional Comments:

 

okay.. so one more question if you don't mind. You implied that these guests were still paid.. how do you arrange that out of curiousity.. do they bring it up after you invite them that they need to be paid for their time or do you when you invite them?

.

 

I will PM you on this.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

Additional Comments:

 

 

I will PM you on this dear.

 

Okay DEAR :)

[Annessa 22743]

ok your posts could really be addressed without the word "dear" so many times SA. it comes across as very hostile and condescending.

 

And I have to agree that in the past you do state DFK in your requirements for an encounter....regardless of the levels of intimacy you are still making a monetary arrangement for intimacy. If you were only stating that you wanted a girl to come over and hang out as a guest thats one thing but expectations are expectations.

 

I personally find theres nothing "highly rated" about this thread tho. thats just my opinion tho. still amazed that its actually still going, but thats what happens when things go in circles i suppose, lol

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Very strange!!!. I thought the word dear is for friends. I cetainly didn't mean to be hostile!!!. I Googled searched it and it says:

 

Meaning of Dear: Bearing a high price; high-priced; costly; expensive.

'Dear' originally meant 'precious','valuable' 'costly'.

 

Glad to read your confirmation of my statements as to my requirements.

 

On your last point if you feel this thread is low rated then with all due respects, do not participate in it. No body forces you lol. A lot of members took the time to post their views. Lets thank them for their contributions lol. BTW, if you look at the thread it has FIVE STARS in front of it (highly rated), not that it matters, just observation.