Bawdy House Laws

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Canada's Criminal Code refers to a "common bawdy-house? and defines it as follows:"... a place that is kept or occupied, or resorted to by one or more persons, for the purpose of prostitution or the practice of acts of indecency.?

 

It has commonly been said that incalls are illegal where as outcalls are legal. Looking at two scenarios:

 

Person A is a hobbiest who sees approx. 3 escorts per week in his own home.

 

Person B is an escort who sees approx. 3 clients per week in her own home.

 

Why would Person B be operating a bawdy house, but not Person A?

[etasman2000 15994]

IANAL

 

Person B is using the location as a place of business might have something to do with it.

[VedaSloan 119179]

Outcalls tend to be considered legal because it is harder to prove that the client uses the place "regularly" for prostitution purposes.

 

Whereas, if you're working out of your house, it doesn't matter. You're a whore, so OBVIOUSLY you're seeing a shit-ton of dudes regularly.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

that would all depend on what is considered regular use.. in both scenarios the same # applies so one would think if 3/week were enough to be considered regular use then both scenarios could be charged.

 

Having said that.. I know of more than one case where cops were called (once by a neighbour and once by another sp on a rant) to 2 different colleagues of mine in the past decade and after investigatin the callers were told to mind their own business.

 

In another case only a month ago another sp who was paranoid about getting busted went down to the cop shop and asked directly if they were going to bust her.. they told her no. Times really have changed in the last couple decades..

[roamingguy 300292]

So safest bet is an outcall to a hotel/motel, and keep changing hotel/motel (or cities for that matter) that you use

My 2 cents

RG

[Kate von Katz 49953]

I'm with Carrie - the cops don't really care about the respectable ladies who work from apartments or hotels. It's the less-reputable ladies who work from the same locations that are of concern to the police.

 

Say for example there are two SPs in the same apartment building. One is classy, mature, drug-free and discreet. The other is not so discreet, uses drugs and alcohol excessively and has friends and associates who are loud, brash and belligerent. Which one do you think will get complaints and subsequently get busted?

 

Quiet, mature ladies who do not have loud parties or gatherings at their incall location almost always go unnoticed. As with many laws, the fact that it's technically on the books does not mean it is regulalry enforced. The few times it is enforced are because the lady/ladies make a ruckus and brought undue attention.

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[777flyer 1612]

It's for this very reason that I have avoided in-calls all together.......perhaps I am overly paranoid, but I guess it comes down to a comfort level.....

 

SNK

[Reddog01 30280]

I tried an in-call once and the atmosphere was a little distracting - on top of thinking about legalities. I think the fact that more than one person lived there, including a SO had a negative effect. After all these encounters have a lot to do with the "mind". IMHO, I prefer an outcall in a 4-5 star hotel ....its almost level playing ground.

[PistolPete 61421]

It's for this very reason that I have avoided in-calls all together.......perhaps I am overly paranoid, but I guess it comes down to a comfort level.....

 

SNK

 

"It is what it is"...your own comfort level. To be quite frank, all I ever do is in calls.

 

I never worried about it, the fact remains, if you are seeing an Indy who is very discrete about it, it works well for both parties.

 

The mature Indy that does not have that "revolving door" there is nothing to be worried about. I never had the paranoid syndrome over the many years.

 

So thanks to those discrete ladies.;-)

[Parker 19761]

The other is not so discreet, uses drugs and alcohol excessively and has friends and associates who are loud, brash and belligerent. Which one do you think will get complaints and subsequently get busted?

 

I think that's it exactly.. There are far better people to worry about than one little escort who's not disturbing or hurting anyone.

 

I doubt there is ever a shortage of actual criminals..

 

I don't know about other places in Canada, but the Ottawa police are great. I'm not sure if they're just more escort friendly here, but they've always been overly helpful the odd time I've come in contact with them.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

I don't know about other places in Canada, but the Ottawa police are great.

I'm going to have to vehemently disagree on that one.

[fortunateone 156618]

Something I read not that long ago indicates that A & B would be considered a bawdy house and subject to the same interpretation.

 

Because the client sees so many different sps or so often, it becomes the same as an sp doing incalls in one place with the same results. I thought it was interesting, to interpret that way, but I think the LE making this suggestion was trying to imply there is no legal way to do it. I also think that most courts would laugh either charge out the door, unless as mentioned there are numerous sps working in one place, there is high traffic, etc. Majority of incalls busted lately seem to be asian micros, with the empĥasis both on traffic and the fact as visitors on tourist visas, these asian sps are working in Canada illegally and can be deported for that.

[Guest s******ecan****]

Whatever the technicalities involved the fact is scarcity of LE resources trumps all. There is always more crime than resources so LE are left with decisions about how best to allocate those resources. When it comes to prostitution its likely that LE resources will be directed to the flagrant offenders, street trade, or where connections to organized crime are suspected or established.

 

Discreet professional Indy's just aren't going to be a concern of LE where resources are scarce or limited (everywhere so it seems). Clients operating from their houses, or indy's in hotels as long as they are discreet just aren't going to attract any attention either.

 

What are you going to look after first? That strange sound coming from the engine or that hairline scratch you picked up at the Canadian Tire parking lot? (car freaks with time to spare please don't crap all over my analogy LOL);-)

[Seymour 3970]

I believe it is based on circumstance:

 

"Criminal indecency or obscenity must rest on actual harm or a significant risk of harm to individuals or society" for a conviction to stand.

 

and to help classify what is considered a bawdy house:

 

"Only one question need be answered in order to establish indecency and determine whether a place is a common bawdy-house: Do the impugned acts offend the standard of tolerance of the contemporary Canadian community, having regard to the place and context in which they occurred??

 

I don't think it comes down to LE looking the other way, rather it is location, population/demographics and as mentioned above, context.

[Parker 19761]

I'm going to have to vehemently disagree on that one.

 

 

Which you are more than welcome to do...

 

I guess I am fortunate that I have only seen the nice and helpful side of the police.

[Andee 220524]

Which you are more than welcome to do...

 

I guess I am fortunate that I have only seen the nice and helpful side of the police.

 

I've experienced both sides actually, but under completely different circumstances.

[mod 135640]

The "act of prostitution" is "Selling of sexual services" and not the "purchasing of sexual services" this is why the incall is illegal but the outcall is fine. The laws are crafty and worded in a way that makes the general public think that prostitution is illegal but in fact outcall prostitution is very much legal for both the man and the woman as long as nothing is discussed or done in a public place or a place where the prostitute brings the client.

 

The "practice of acts of indecency" I beleive was put in to include such places as dominatrix dungeons, rub and tugs, peep shows, etc... where they may not actually have sex with clients but perform some sexual arousing service. Stripclubs however are legal but debate over the VIP rooms (Grinding, lap dances, girl touching herself, girl touching another girl, man touching himself, etc...) are always being challenged as acts of indecency and at times prostitution if a dancer actually offers a undercover police officer sexual services in the club - many clubs have been put up on charges for common bawdy house with the acts of indecency being the reason for the charge and not actually prostitution offenses.

 

The problem is that it is almost impossible for a court (judge) to say that a persons choice to participate in such things such as S&M acts as a indecent act as they do not make decisions based on moral reasons or personal choices. It's a very hard charge to make stick I bet.

 

I feel that this is one of those discretionary laws that leave way too much room for debate and are really just useless words added to the actual law. Gives the police a little more to "charge" the person or place with and then the courts can decide... hits the offending parties where it counts as the legal fee's would be substantial as it's a criminal code charge.

[FineWineDiva 7343]

Well said. my dear ......

I use that line many times ... " there's Not a revolving door here"

 

A client , Must call from his car for the codes( buzz & apartment ) ,

Not my condo lobby for codes .

If they do I cancel !

Be Private & discrete is every thing ,

Dam l'm even on the Board of my condo .

 

If you stay this way, No one bother you !

If you act like a lady .you'll be treat that way !

 

 

 

"It is what it is"...your own comfort level. To be quite frank, all I ever do is in calls.

 

I never worried about it, the fact remains, if you are seeing an Indy who is very discrete about it, it works well for both parties.

 

The mature Indy that does not have that "revolving door" there is nothing to be worried about. I never had the paranoid syndrome over the many years.

 

So thanks to those discrete ladies.;-)

[VedaSloan 119179]

I'm going to have to vehemently disagree on that one.

 

I'm going to have to agree with Megan, the Ottawa cops are awful.

[Parker 19761]

I'm going to have to agree with Megan, the Ottawa cops are awful.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but is there a reason people dislike the police here?

 

I mean, a crime against an escort here is still a crime.. the police do their job and treat it as such.

 

In some places a crime against sex workers would go to the bottom of the unimportant pile.. being a product of our "bad choices" and "poor judgment", here I find the police are into helping anyone who needs it.

 

Maybe I'm not expecting enough out of them? Maybe they're supposed to be doing something I haven't heard of? I don't know.. they seem alright.

The police in the States can be far more snooty and difficult to deal with... without being an escort.

[Old Dog 179138]

I'm going to have to agree with Megan, the Ottawa cops are awful.

 

Erin... that is painting with a pretty broad brush. It would be like someone that has only dealt with SPs who use drugs saying that all SPs use drugs. We know that is not the case, but it is a perception based on limited scope.

[belfastspider 240]

I think that's it exactly.. There are far better people to worry about than one little escort who's not disturbing or hurting anyone.

 

I doubt there is ever a shortage of actual criminals..

 

I don't know about other places in Canada, but the Ottawa police are great. I'm not sure if they're just more escort friendly here, but they've always been overly helpful the odd time I've come in contact with them.

 

 

I agree with Lindsay, the ladies that party and are loud are going to attract more attention then the quiet and professional ones!!!:cool::cool:

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Erin... that is painting with a pretty broad brush. It would be like someone that has only dealt with SPs who use drugs saying that all SPs use drugs. We know that is not the case, but it is a perception based on limited scope.

When I say the cops are awful, I don't mean each cop as an individual. I mean Ottawa Police Services as a body.

[roamingguy 300292]

Being a newbie (in fact my first time with an sp is 48 hours away:bddog:) don't know what my opinion is worth...but here goes

If you have an existing client/sp relationship, and you both trust one another by that point, couldn't you do the exchange of money at one point (say a car in a parking lot) then meet with the sp at her place at a later set time/date. Wouldn't it be two adults meeting for a date, and thus circumventing the existing law alltogether

Laws, IMHO are designed to appeal to a moral minority anyway, it's the worlds oldest profession, the laws won't change that...and why not completely legalize it...sex is a normal part of life, why should the law treat the sp's and clients with shame

My 2 cents, for what it's worth

RG

[Carrie Moon 68826]

No that would not be better. That would likely then fall into another charge of communicating or soliciting for the purposes of prostitution as it took place in public. Don't worry about your incall.. I was busted in the 90's when they were doing sweeps but it's changed soooo much since then and I feel completely safe when doing incalls now.