The Demise Of The Brothel / Agency - Reasons??

[drlove 37204]

This is a topic that's been playing on my mind for awhile now. Once upon a time, Halifax had a thriving assortment of brothels (both incall and outcall) as well as outcall only agencies. In the past five years, all the reputable ones have disappeared.

 

I've heard a few theories on why this has happened. One is that more ladies are gravitating toward being independents in the internet age. This may be true to a degree; however, during the 1990's and 2000+, Halifax had the best of both worlds - independent ladies who advertised on Cerb and in other media, as well as the trusted agencies that had made a name for themselves over the years. In other words, both facets of the industry co-existed in relative harmony for as long as I can recall.

 

Another argument has been that no one really wants to take on the risk of running a brothel anymore. Perhaps, but it seems that most of the well know bawdy houses operated with relative impunity for many years, with LE (vice) looking the other way for the most part.

 

Also, why is there a dearth of reputable, upscale outcall agencies? IMHO, someone with initiative, good business sense and the willingness to provide quality service would do quite well. However, most of the agencies out there today seem rather sketchy. I've heard from others that they are surprised by this, and were expecting a lot more selection since Halifax is "a university / port town" in their words. Apparently, this theory doesn't ring true . Any ideas on why this is?

[The General 11309]

Dr Love,

 

Perhaps you have the skills to make this happen, so you may be looking at the right person every day in the mirror. Do I hear business opportunity?

[Annessa 22743]

Dr Love,

 

Perhaps you have the skills to make this happen, so you may be looking at the right person every day in the mirror. Do I hear business opportunity?

 

I would never suggest this to anyone (who doesn't have experience in the business and to what the laws of the criminal code in Canada are) to start an agency/brothel.

 

I can't comment on why reputable agencies offering outcall only services have diminished in your area..I can only comment on the fact that brothels and incalls (aka "common bawdy houses") in Canada are very much Illegal by the Canadian Criminal Code.

 

as an SP who has worked for a wannabe agent...and a claimed Upscale outcall only agency I will admit that many girls who enter agencies learn what they have to learn and then when things go sour they get sick of giving someone a cut just to get bossed around....then they go independent with the knowledge they have gained ...or the knowledge of what they're NOT willing to put up with.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about a lack of agencies or brothels (really..if there is a bust are you willing to be caught in a brothel?)......if I was the OP I would pay more attention to the independents if they are around instead of trying to find more agencies...just do your research in advance to find out who is more reputable first.

[drlove 37204]

Dr Love,

 

Perhaps you have the skills to make this happen, so you may be looking at the right person every day in the mirror. Do I hear business opportunity?

 

Haha... I wish... Sometimes I think about it; I mean how hard could it really be? Only problem is, I'd always want to be test driving the merchandise! *lol* :mrgreen:

 

Additional Comments:

I would never suggest this to anyone (who doesn't have experience in the business and to what the laws of the criminal code in Canada are) to start an agency/brothel.

 

I can't comment on why reputable agencies offering outcall only services have diminished in your area..I can only comment on the fact that brothels and incalls (aka "common bawdy houses") in Canada are very much Illegal by the Canadian Criminal Code.

 

With regard to the above, I admire those individuals who were able to make a go of it. Obviously, the knew something that others didn't, and certainly knew how to run a business well. Furthermore, the fact that incalls are illegal didn't seem to deter them in the least. For instance, A well known incall operated in the area for 18 years, and when the final bust occured, the owner was slapped with a $4,000 fine and that was the end of it. Well worth it, when you consider the amount of revenue that must have been generated over the course of time that the agency was in operation.

 

Additional Comments:

I wouldnt worry too much about a lack of agencies or brothels (really..if there is a bust are you willing to be caught in a brothel?)......if I was the OP I would pay more attention to the independents if they are around instead of trying to find more agencies...just do your research in advance to find out who is more reputable first.

 

I certainly do that, although I find there is more work involved. For example, there are many ladies whos advertisements catch my eye. However, I hesitate on seeing them since they are unknown quantities, so to speak. I don't feel like taking chances. Also with independents, there is also the issue of scheduling, which can sometimes prove to be difficult. I often book in advance to find a mutually agreeable day and time. However, with an agency things are much more convenient. If you find one that is reputable, you can more or less be assured that the ladies who work there are reputable as well. Also, calling an agency is great for spur of the moment bookings. In other words, I could call on a whim and have a selection of ladies to choose from, and have one at my door within half an hour.

[Emma Alexandra 123368]

I have to say that i am happy that they are no longer in Halifax...i found them very very demeaning to the ladies. One i'm sure many guys knew about in Dartmouth wanted me to work for them when i first started...i went for the interview and was appalled at how they did things...like getting the ladies to line up like cattle...and not paying them their true worth...it was just so wrong. I fell sorry for the ladies. they certainly did not look happy. I can say that because i seen them when no men were around. I was told the rules and one of them was to smile and pretend to be happy when the gentlemen came in...i mean seriously what did they offer these ladies...??? A room to use for their date...[which they paid for}. A safe place to work? Everyone knew what the place was...a driver to take them to their out call-{which they paid for} and when i say they paid for i mean the ladies. Total disgrace. IMO

 

Additional Comments:

Also, calling an agency is great for spur of the moment bookings. In other words, I could call on a whim and have a selection of ladies to choose from, and have one at my door within half an hour.

 

You can still do that in Halifax...there are many ladies there.

[drlove 37204]

Emma raises an interesting point - Of those agencies which existed in HRM, why weren't there any that were upscale? E.g. ( Select in Toronto etc..)

 

Additional Comments:

As an aside, there was an outcall agency in Halifax called "Mature Escorts" which seemed pretty decent from what I could tell, but they went under at the start of 2005.

[Guest S***e]

I too remember them as being part of the city landscape in Saint John, Moncton and Halifax and to some extent in Montreal when I was there. I had my first experience in one at the age of 19 a long time ago and the situation was very much as you describe. Back in the old days they were very much common-place as were ladies of the night (street ladies). My first experience was in the late 60s and thankfully things have changed since then as I've witnessed the evolution since those days. Many of the brothels were clearly unsafe for all concerned back then and for that reason I'm glad they are all but a memory. Personally, I prefer the company of an informed, independent business woman.

 

I have to say that i am happy that they are no longer in Halifax...i found them very very demeaning to the ladies. One i'm sure many guys knew about in Dartmouth wanted me to work for them when i first started...i went for the interview and was appalled at how they did things...like getting the ladies to line up like cattle...and not paying them their true worth...it was just so wrong. I fell sorry for the ladies. they certainly did not look happy. I can say that because i seen them when no men were around. I was told the rules and one of them was to smile and pretend to be happy when the gentlemen came in...i mean seriously what did they offer these ladies...??? A room to use for their date...[which they paid for}. A safe place to work? Everyone knew what the place was...a driver to take them to their out call-{which they paid for} and when i say they paid for i mean the ladies. Total disgrace. IMO

 

Additional Comments:

 

 

You can still do that in Halifax...there are many ladies there.

[drlove 37204]

..a driver to take them to their out call-{which they paid for} and when i say they paid for i mean the ladies. Total disgrace. IMO

 

I didn't know about this... I always assumed that it was the client who paid the driver's fee, hence the reason that the rates for outcall were substantially higher than incall.

[Kate von Katz 49953]

I think once ladies figure out that they prefer being indy, it lessens the number of agency girls. Couple that with the the LE in Halifax (which I was told are cracking down on some of the cat houses), and you've got a less-than-thriving agency/brothel scene.

 

As for what ladies pay to agencies, it is more than most gentlemen think. If you work from a hotel you pay for your room, plus the agency's cut, plus your own transportation at the beginning and end of your working day/night. If a lady works in a brothel she often pays almost half of her earnings in agency fees. A lot of ladies do the math and realize renting an apartment is cheaper and they have more freedom.

 

I'm not saying agencies are bad, but some are. Ladies don't like working for what they feel is too little. And having worked breifly (as in one day before I got fed up) at a brothel over the bridge in Dartmouth a couple years back while in Halifax, I was one of those ladies who said "screw this, I can do better solo".

Posted via Mobile Device

[Naughty_Nadia 100]

I've thought of trying an agency but my mind keeps going to what Emma was talking about, why would I want to pay someone, when all they are doing is bossing me around and providing nothing?

[drlove 37204]

really..if there is a bust are you willing to be caught in a brothel?)......

 

I see your point. This is why I always opted for outcall and never actually went to visit one. However, what about an incall at a lady's residence? Are they less at risk of being busted by LE?

[redmachine 1916]

Actually Halifax was home to the most famous of all brothel and call-girl business in all of Canada run by the legendary Ada McCallum until her death in 1986. I know I am dating myself but I had the pleasure of dealing with Ada in her final years and it was a true pleasure. The ladies were all gorgeous and classy most were from Montreal and were rotated in and out of Halifax on a bi-weekly bassis and one of the most important things as safe sex was not the norm back then as it is today every Monday was doctor day for every lady.

Just as a fyi the rates for this elite service in 1986 $35 for hh $70 for h msog included lol

Here are just a couple of the hundreds of testimonials that Ada received upon her death.

 

 

• Upon her death, Halifax's legendary Madame Ada McCallum is honoured by a moment of silence at Province House. From the time of WWII, she ran an internationally-renowned brothel and call-girl business, and was later featured in a Lulu Keating documentary that aired nationally on the History Channel.
  

 

When Ada McCallum died in 1986, the Globe and Mail headline read:

"Woman a Halifax Legend in Four Decades as Madam." Even kids in

neighbouring New Brunswick had heard of Ada. She was the city's "greatest

tourist attraction," Doug Harkness told The Halifax Daily News.

 

Now to more recent history the two locations that closed in the last couple of years here in Halifax were Park Avenue and Gentlemen Massage Club. I knew and liked Pat (Park Avenue) but her legal problems at the end were of her own making somewhere along the road she lost her sense of direction. And Dr Love you state the fine was only a few thousand compared to what must have been made over her 18 years of being in business.

Well in her last court appearance she was represented by Legal Aid and it was reported she needed oxygen tanks to help with her breathing so I would say the years in the business were not kind to Pat and I absolutely wish her all the best.

 

As for Gentlemen Massage Club and Mr Manship (George) WOW I can't imagine how much this man spent on legal fees over the years his final surrender was a forfeit of his house and property in downtown Dartmouth as part of a plea bargin. IMHO he got exactly what he derserved he had no respect for the community, no respect for the law, and more importantly no respect for the ladies he employed he will get no good wishes from me.

 

Now if anyone is still interested in starting a brothel in Halifax............Good luck with that!

 

Beside the legal issues the reason I believe brothels have gone by the wayside is the arrival of the internet where the ladies can safely advertise and promote themselves.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

I see your point. This is why I always opted for outcall and never actually went to visit one. However, what about an incall at a lady's residence? Are they less at risk of being busted by LE?

An agency that has an incall with several ladies working and men coming and going all day long is much more likely to be busted than the majority of independent providers here who work in their own space and see only a handful of gentlemen each week.

[drlove 37204]

Pat (Park Avenue)...it was reported she needed oxygen tanks to help with her breathing so I would say the years in the business were not kind to Pat...

 

I heard that she was on oxygen 18 hours a day and sleeps with a mask. It's most likely due to being confined in a closed space for so long where everyone smoked. I can't comment myself since I was never actually inside the building, but I've heard from various sources that they would never open a window at Park Avenue, even in the summer so that passersby wouldn't overhear anything. Others have said that the ladies had to do chores and Pat wouldn't turn on the heat in the winter. This all seems a bit far fetched in my opinion... most likely hearsay.

[Emma Alexandra 123368]

I heard that she was on oxygen 18 hours a day and sleeps with a mask. It's most likely due to being confined in a closed space for so long where everyone smoked. I can't comment myself since I was never actually inside the building, but I've heard from various sources that they would never open a window at Park Avenue, even in the summer so that passersby wouldn't overhear anything. Others have said that the ladies had to do chores and Pat wouldn't turn on the heat in the winter. This all seems a bit far fetched in my opinion... most likely hearsay.

 

I know the chores part is true...and smoking if i remember correctly was confined to one room...but still smoke travels. the place was very small inside...and not attractive by any means.

[drlove 37204]

As for Gentlemen Massage Club and Mr Manship (George) WOW I can't imagine how much this man spent on legal fees over the years his final surrender was a forfeit of his house and property in downtown Dartmouth as part of a plea bargin. IMHO he got exactly what he derserved he had no respect for the community, no respect for the law, and more importantly no respect for the ladies he employed he will get no good wishes from me.

 

I can't believe this place lasted for as long as it did due to the brazen way the establishment promoted itself (Neon signs!). After they got busted, they would be back in business the next evening. I felt bad for the next door neighbours who were routinely awoken at 3:30 in the morning by drunks who were knocking at the wrong house. I heard that the city even gave them a break on their property taxes because of this.

[Cara Silver 32413]

Studios/brothels are much worse from the inside looking out than from the outside looking in. That's all I'll say about my time working the studios in Vancouver and Edmonton. Studios don't survive, or survive on a very poor reputation, because ladies don't want to work there. *Shudder*

 

xoxo Amelia

[Andee 220524]

I didn't know about this... I always assumed that it was the client who paid the driver's fee, hence the reason that the rates for outcall were substantially higher than incall.

 

I can't speak for Halifax, but in Grande Prairie, back in the early 90s, the rate was $150 for half hour or $250 for the hour. We had to , give the agency $50 and the driver $15. The driver and the owner were the same entity. If the call didn't work out, we were still on the hook for the $15. even though THEY booked the call.

 

We also HAD to pay $150 a week rent to the owners to house us which was in a delapidated house with a leaking roof, 4 single beds lined up, no privacy plus we had to buy our own food - nowhere to cook, so it was all takeout. Talk about substandard working conditions.

 

So glad when I moved to Ontario and could finally work indie.

[Summer Meadows 1676]

BC is auful too. I worked in Vancouver and they charged $250 for an outcall. I had to give the agency a $100 fee plus $50 for the driver and $10 book-on fee (AKA bullshit fee) every night after the first call. So I made $90/hour and they took $160!!! They would not even let me drive myself to save $ and the driver drove away before you'd even get to the doorstep. And ya I was out $50 driver fee if the call the agency booked didn't work out. I don't know how many times they sent me to a house full of rowdy drunk men before I quit. Scary stuff. However I aslo worked out of a hotel downtown Vancouver being indy and made a fortune and had wonderful clients. I will never work for an agency ever again! You learn the ropes and you go indy. The only downside of being indy is it's kinda lonely sometimes. The agency is a party every night.

[cat 262460]

I worked for an agency in Toronto and several down South and honestly, I prefer it. In TO there was $265 for a full hour call (20 yrs ago), the agency took $110 for each call, $15 book on fee per shift, and $10 cell phone fee per shift, driver took between $20 to $100 depending on where the call was. We were expected to negotiate the additional driving fees with the client when we booked the call. The agency did not book the call, the escort did. Did I resent the $$$ paid to the agency? Not usually. It allowed me to work shifts then go home and have a life. If you were reliable and trustworthy you made $, day in, day out. In the South it was a 50-50 split, you drove yourself but the agency booked the call. There were times I resented the run around, but I know in straight jobs you get the run around as well. At least I made enough $ to pay my bills and take care of my family. I've also worked in brothels down South, where you are on lockdown and that was bizarre but it worked for me. I don't have a problem following house rules and at the end of the night I always made good $.

 

The difference for me between being an indie or an agency girl is the quality of the experience. I really enjoy being able to cater to my guests as an indie. I don't like the administration work involved with being an indie which is why you seldom see me advertise. I hate screening new clients and dealing with the time wasters. It's why I bust my ass to ensure I keep the guests I have when I do work. But there are many days where I have time to entertain, but didn't have the time to send out the invitations before hand so I miss out. If I worked for an agency, I could pick up the phone and book on. Voila, I'm making $. The problem in Ottawa is that agencies don't work older women. 5 years ago when I arrived, 2 agencies hired me and I did 3 appointments a week maximum. I had to lie and say I was 40 to go to work for a mature escort agency just so that I could eat. If I had more appointments, I would have stayed with the agencies but I was living in my car at the time and couldn't get ahead so I went indie.

 

There are definite benefits working for a well run agency but the key is finding one. There are many girls who do not have the discipline or skill set to be an indie but they may be great escorts. It needs to be understood that good agencies are more than a cell phone and a newspaper ad and that effort needs to be financially compensated. Working with escorts isn't easy and their behavior makes it distasteful for someone considering opening an agency when one weighs the pros and cons of making the initial investment of time and $$$. The ROI often isn't strong, there are legal issues at hand and there needs to be some real soul searching as to whether this is actually worth it. Escorts are not known for their ability to follow the rules or respect authority and a good agency owner must have rules and enforce them. An agency owner deals with the other side of the "time waster" coin, which is weeding out the time wasting SP's that are unsuitable for multiple reasons. Many are unreliable, see agency clients on the side, or have personal or emotional issues that interfere with the day to day operations of working for an agency. In Canada, the SPs that allowed an agency to actually make $ leave and go indie after they get the hang of the industry. So one thinks, why bother opening a solid, well run, SP friendly agency if it means training women who will quit as soon as they have enough to put an ad on Escorts Canada? Unfortunately, that leaves the agency void to be filled with people who run makeshift operations and take advantage of escorts working both incall and outcall. The people that would make good agency owners often decide to devote their time to other endeavors.

 

cat

[rickoshadows 937]

Cat makes some very good points. For a good agency to get a ROI, they need to be able to attract and retain those SPs which bring in the money. A brothel, if it wasn't subject to siezure by the government is an opportunity to do so. Facilities at such an establishment can be way more than an independant could provide on her own, not that there won't be a market for indies. The New Zealand/Australia model does provide for this. The current prohibition against bawdy houses does not encourage investment in the infrastructure.

Should that law eventually be struck down, the situation will not improve unless some way is found to stop municipalities from abusing them like they do strip clubs, or even nightclubs and other licensed establishments.