Divulging your name

[roamingguy 300292]

This discussion is on a serious one way street. Unless guys agree with Ms Marceau for the sake of looking good and thank you or nominate your post, they're going to be flamed by every single provider. You've purposely set it up to be a lose-lose situation for anyone who dares to comment. It's an extremist view.

 

I was the second post in this thread, before Genevieve Marceau posted. I posted MY OWN OPINION not to look good, not for nominations, thanks etc...but because I posted my own opinion. Pretty condescending of you to assume any post in agreement with Genevieve Marceau is to avoid being flamed

My opinion is my own

 

RG

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

I think we're descending into Godwin's Law here. I agree that it's pretty inflammatory to start throwing the Robert Pictons and Bradley Bartons in our faces. Most of us are good men and I for one, don't appreciate being verbally bludgeoned into silence by the sex work equivalent of being accused of being a Nazi.

 

Genevieve, please consider: the anti sex-work people often use inflammatory rhetoric and single out particularly horrid cases to make the argument that your job should be illegal. Would you use these same tools to silence discussion among those who are on your side?

 

Reality is that most gentlemen who see companions are respectful people who would never hurt an escort.

 

The reality is also that bad apples exist everywhere and not just in this industry. For some reason, this industry seems to attract some of the less desirables...

 

The reality is that we screen to the best of our abilities to avoid those bad apples as much as we can by using various methods.

 

Reality is that some of us are passionate about this topic because it is an issue that involves our own physical well-being, safety and lives.

 

No one is being verbally bludgeoned. We are simply trying to show you the reality we deal with when we accept to see a new patron.

 

Both clients and providers have their own screening procedures and are free to not see someone for any reason they choose. Clients who won't give real names don't get to see providers who insist on them and providers who insist on them give up the segment of clientele who won't provide them.

And it's the best way to go.

[CristyCurves 169032]

I think we're descending into Godwin's Law here. I agree that it's pretty inflammatory to start throwing the Robert Pictons and Bradley Bartons in our faces. Most of us are good men and I for one, don't appreciate being verbally bludgeoned into silence by the sex work equivalent of being accused of being a Nazi.

 

Genevieve, please consider: the anti sex-work people often use inflammatory rhetoric and single out particularly horrid cases to make the argument that your job should be illegal. Would you use these same tools to silence discussion among those who are on your side?

 

There are risks on both sides with using real names and contact information. Probably less so for men but still, not insignificant. I don't worry about using my real name but I can certainly understand some people being reluctant. In any event, it is definitely a two way street if only in one way: Both clients and providers have their own screening procedures and are free to not see someone for any reason they choose. Clients who won't give real names don't get to see providers who insist on them and providers who insist on them give up the segment of clientele who won't provide them. Simple economics.

 

You have a point but there is relevance to Genevieve's strong examples and I hope I'm not wrong for thinking but I believe hers and the point I'm trying to make is why it is important to have such information(a real name). Obviously some won't be swayed but certainly good points have been made as to why some should consider giving it or at the very least why some require such information. That too is quite simple.

I suppose we all do what we are taught though. If some have allowed bookings without a name then for those that is sufficient and satisfactory, for themselves and their clients. For others not so and yes, we'll avoid one another. At least through this discussion some light has been shed as to why or why not some require it and some don't. Thanks to those who've participated.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Thank you Gabriella, you pretty much said what I could not find the words, but if may add some thoughts to this as well. To further suggest, our visitors should be pleased we take such care when booking, No one needs drama in the middle of a engagement do we? No one wants to visit if there was a slightest threat that someone could be lurking around to cause problems. This is the most difficult part to our job!

 

Like some have said, WE are the ones who have posted for the world to see: our number, pictures and the ones who you visit often at our locations like at our HOME ( I capitalize that word cause our homes are so personal) or hotels in OUR name. This requires so much trust from you the visitors. We put ourselves out there in so many ways, much more than booking for time and just showing up.

 

BUT also, even if I ask the names, unless I ask to see photo ID, you could say Joe, or Tom, what have you. My key is in phone numbers, names as told, and nicknames ( really great guy loves golden retrievers , or has a great moustache..) I have nick names for the reason that you could be lying about your name.

 

Bu if you are confirming with a strict protocol, then real phone numbers are the best way...for me.

 

On this note, I also caution ladies on who you choose to give your real name to. Either another colleague or guest. I had recently been threw this situation, and frankly shocked and amazed this person would even think about giving my real name out to others!!

 

So, use your intuition, and smarts. Like Midnight Energy says, if you are booking with a lady that has long time established rep, you do not have much to fear....(unless you act criminal against her.)

 

In my opinion, if you are asked for real name and address and work place from someone you JUST STUNMBLED upon, then perhaps you might want to continue your search and spend time on researching her, or wait till you meet a few more times.

 

If I am visiting you in HOTEL ( only way I will do out visits ) then YES your name must match the room number. If MR. Jones is not in room 205 then I will not show up!!

 

Hope this clear up some of the debate? At least in my view.

Cheers!

[Ice4fun 78407]

From my Opinion this has been a good discussion it has highlighted why many ladies require the real name of their clients... they have devised a business model that incorporates safety measures that meet their needs. Of course there will be other ladies who choose other methods and guys who choose for their own reasons not to want to give out their name... that's life people need to respect the respect the decisions of others... it's ok to disagree on approach and to just see those clients / ladies whose approach we are comfortable with.

 

This for me was a topic about safety... There will be no perfect answer and in my opinion no way to 100% ensure safety for either clients or ladies but I think the risk pendulum clearly weighs heavier on the ladies side and that has been reflected in the strong comments about their safety that have been expressed.

 

That said I do think we are at times all a little overly sensitive to the comments others make (yes i am including myself in that) I think we all could take a few deep breaths and accept that hey its just someone else's opinion... I don't have to agree with it and yea he / she may be wrong.

 

But I do like these types of debates... really makes me think.

 

Just my opinion

 

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

[50 Shades Raven 31380]

If I am visiting you in HOTEL ( only way I will do out visits ) then YES your name must match the room number. If MR. Jones is not in room 205 then I will not show up!!

 

too true, this is why we ask for names, the hotels require that when we call to verify you, the HOTEL will ask for the name of the party you are trying to reach.

 

I don't know why guys don't get this. But when a lady calls into the hotel to verify you are actually there, the hotel does ask us this information.

 

Too many times, in my early days, I have been told to go to a hotel only to find out the person was not there.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

too true, this is why we ask for names, the hotels require that when we call to verify you, the HOTEL will ask for the name of the party you are trying to reach.

 

I don't know why guys don't get this. But when a lady calls into the hotel to verify you are actually there, the hotel does ask us this information.

 

Too many times, in my early days, I have been told to go to a hotel only to find out the person was not there.

 

 

Your right, if I call hotel and ask for MR Jones, but is actually MRS. Smith, well now I am glad did not show up!

[oldblueeyez 15475]

I have no problems with the lady knowing my real name, but I think it should also go both ways.Not saying that the name should be upfront in her ads, but its kind of silly to call the lady by a name that we all know is not real.

 

 

Of course. If a provider wants your personal information, then she should be prepared to provide hers before proceeding with the encounter (i.e. swapping IDs).

 

If you're a single man with nothing to lose, then sure, give her all the info she wants, because who cares. If you're a single man with money, then you have to be prepared to have her charged with extortion if she happens to use the information against you, with all the publicity a court case entails (though she would likely back down when presented with such a challenge, but once charges are laid it's not up to you to "drop them"). If you're a married man with money, then you're screwed if she decides to use the information against you; a married man is not going to go to the police claiming extortion.

 

Extortion is a remote possibility but a realistic possibility nonetheless.

[Kate von Katz 49953]

Thanks everyone for an entertaining read...

 

Of course the bottom line here, as has already been pointed out a few times, is that you are either okay giving more detailed personal information or you aren't.

 

Yea or Nay

 

Arguing the reasons why a companion chooses to have certain specifications in order to spend time with her is not accomplishing anything. A lady chooses her rules and what she's okay with and that's that. I'm not even going to go into reasons why saying shit like "if she wants your real info you should have hers, too" is skewed logic at it's best. If you don't understand why you're being obtuse, me adding yet another explanation is hardly going to enlighten you.

 

I get that guys want to protect their privacy just as much as the ladies do. But again: if you don't like the way a lady handles her business, then find someone who is more suited to you. No need to try to use weird logic to justify your stance. Move on to another companion whose expectations and requirements are at a level you are willing to meet.

 

Wow! Rocket science! Okay kids, let's all make nice and go about our lives.

[Phaedrus 209521]

Contact info.. WELL yes of course like a phone number as per any said appointments how else does one know room number, on time etc etc etc, in fact some ask to speak to the real you days prior to the appointment... OH an like an email address too...how many times do you think we may get an email from someone stating they are coming to your city...or even sometimes a text right of the blue from a lady that I removed from my contacts in my phone after our last appointment over a month and half ago but she texts me saying she is coming to town, I kinda of chuckled, as I was in Mexico when that came through.

 

So yes Cristy THAT IS personal contact info required too. ;) And I like to be quite clear, it IS NOT a MUTE point.

 

Happy Hump Day ;)

 

Absolutely. I'm not concerned about anyone deliberately disclosing contact information or anything like that; I'm more concerned about what happens when a lady loses her phone, or puts the Facebook app on her work phone (you *do* all know what happens when you do that, don't you?), or a third party gets in and goes on a fishing expedition. Call me paranoid if you like... but that's why Phaedrus has his own email and phone number.

 

Also: I'd love to assume that anyone we give any contact details to will be professional, responsible and discreet and delete them when they're done with, but... unfortunately this world contains quite a lot of people who are unprofessional, irresponsible and indiscreet. Some of them are involved in this industry, on both sides. Reminders don't hurt :)

[Winnipegcub 21293]

I'll follow Kate's lead and try to stick to answering the question.

 

One perspective if I could. We walk in our own shoes so it is pretty difficult for me to understand and appreciate what level of screening etc a lady would want to use. Thus I respect whatever their choices are. But likewise, no one knows my circumstances and thus as a client the privacy and discretion I feel I want and need.

 

Thus, I almost never provide my real name up front and at time of booking. I just don't feel I can and hope that's accepted. But I do recognize that it could mean I may never meet certain ladies. That's what I have to accept. Now those ladies I've been fortunate to meet...well trust seems to come quick in both directions and therefore a few know the man behind the cub.

[YoungBeautyMirella 5600]

I think the main reason a lady wants the potential clients name and info is for her safety! I would understand if the lady is some random new SP with no good reco's etc, but if it is a highly reco'd and respected SP there really should be no issue because she would never do anything with that information(of course unless the client did something horrible to her etc) I guess with these new laws people may be more paranoid and all that, but there are a lot of great ladies with great reco's that do not ask for all this(unless of course as mentioned above they need it to go to an outcall and need the name for the hotel verification!)

 

 

To add to what I said above, I do not ask for full names just because I understand the whole dicretion thing etc, I am thankful I have never had anything really bad happen during my time off and on in the business but usually just from talking to someone and getting to know them a bit and by the way they talk to me, I can tell if I want to see them or not. I have had to turn away a few people in the past but it had to do more with terrible terrible hygiene(even after a shower) but nothing to make me want to report them lol

[CristyCurves 169032]

Absolutely. I'm not concerned about anyone deliberately disclosing contact information or anything like that; I'm more concerned about what happens when a lady loses her phone, or puts the Facebook app on her work phone (you *do* all know what happens when you do that, don't you?), or a third party gets in and goes on a fishing expedition. Call me paranoid if you like... but that's why Phaedrus has his own email and phone number.

More what if's and I understand why some may think this way but.. A gent could misplace his phone, it may have my address, contact info-what then, what if someone goes on a fishing expedition in his phone. As you said both sides can err and be distrustful. But lets face facts, even with a board handle and a "hobby phone", a persons identity can be found out. There are trails to everything we do nowadays. Some require specific specialities to uncover, but can be uncovered none the less. So if one has such a fear of being found out or think they'll have to much to loose if they divulge their info perhaps hobbying shouldn't be for them.

 

 

Also: I'd love to assume that anyone we give any contact details to will be professional, responsible and discreet and delete them when they're done with, but... unfortunately this world contains quite a lot of people who are unprofessional, irresponsible and indiscreet. Some of them are involved in this industry, on both sides. Reminders don't hurt :)

 

Yes reminders don't hurt and open discussions can enlighten some, others will remain as they were, lol. I've come to find this business to be so hypocritical on many fronts and in particular when it comes to leveled trust. So much so all one can do is laugh about it and lol!

[Malika Fantasy 144625]

Wrong thread derp

[Genevieve Marceau 68000]

To be honest, the thing that appall me the most in this discussion is that some users feel offended and take it personal when we throw our harsh reality in their face, instead of feeling empathetic to it. We are told we have an inflammatory discourse. Those who are empathetic and sensitive to our situation are being shamed into the guy who is just afraid to contradict ladies (or me LOL).

 

Let's pretend that I am a cop, and that I speaking to a citizen of my reality to be killed on duty, in his/her city. It could be the neighbour! Do you think that the regular citizen would be like "Hey, I don't like to be accused of a cop killer! We are not all cop killers! Blocking their hears with both hand and going "lalalalaalalalala I can't hear ya"! "I believe we are living in a perfect world and I don't want to hear about your inflammatory discourse."

 

My point is, why is us escort, when we try to speak our own reality, we are being silenced? Apparently it is very offensive when we do. Some clients just don't like to have their fantasies interrupted while they are riding their unicorn. Why are they even offended in the first place? I really don't understand. Really.

 

 

Another exercise for the offended souls here:

 

When it is late night, and you have to walk in the parking to your car...What is your biggest fear? Not remembering where you have put your car?

 

Well for women, it is to be attacked at gun or knife point, being raped and robed. This happens EVERYDAY, in EVERY cities in EVERY countries.

 

Although the previous example is a little off of the current subject, all I am trying to say is that if women feel like that in a parking (I don't know one woman who doesn't), imagine when she is in a situation with a first-time client?

 

Of course most men are not like that! I have fantastic and amazing clients in my life. They are the reason why I love my work so much, and that I keep going. They have considerably contributed in my life, and I am thankful every day that they have decided to trust me. If one of them would ever become a victim of extortion by another "lady", she'd have to step over me first, and good luck with that.

 

I tend to get protective with my clients and female colleagues. That's why I don't understand where the offence is...

[Eric Northman 16522]

Genevieve,

 

I totally emphasize with you. I get that it's much more dangerous and scary to be a woman in many contexts. I have a huge amount of respect for the women who choose this profession in spite of the risks.

 

I'm not trying to minimize or marginalize your experience or your need to be safe. My problem was with this:

 

Bradley Barton is a free man. Hell, as far as I know he could be here posting on this very thread!

 

This world is full of Bradley Barton. He is not an exception. Now before I hear someone wining that not all men are the same, let me tell you something: If "losing" the business of a hundreds clients gives us the chance to avoid only ONE Bradley Barton, we win big time. There is no lost here.

 

This statement certainly seemed misandrist to me and made me feel like men were being painted with a particularly broad brush. I get that it probably wasn't your intent but we 'clients' are certainly subject to a lot of stigma. In some ways, ours is worse. It may be offensive for you to be seen as victims or sluts or whatever but many of the stereotypes applied to you are positively benign to how much of the world views clients. Pathetic, desperate losers at best, predators or victimizers on the other end of the scale.

 

Yes, there is a lot of male privilege but we also struggle with sexism. How many men would walk away from a lost child rather than trying to help because of all the pedophile branding that seems to happen these days?

[VedaSloan 119179]

I'm going to be blunt and I'm sure quite a few of you will get your jockeys in a bunch, but it needs to be said.

 

1. No one cares who you are. The majority of you are not high-profile enough to matter.

 

2. The paranoia around us getting hacked or your info leaked because we lost our phone or some other ridiculous scenario you come up with to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions (eg. contacting s ex workers) is so entitled to me. Has an escort ever been hacked in the history of the internet? NOPE.

 

3. You can't have it both ways; you can't expect us to provide high level customer service like remembering little details about your life, interests, etc and not expect us to keep info.

 

4. If you think we're going to extort you or some other malicious action, you need to seriously re-evaluate how you think about s ex workers and your participation in this industry.

 

5. Your privacy, your personal life, your marriage--none of that trumps my safety. My life is on the line when I invite men into my space. It is not my responsibility to make sure that your wife doesn't find out, or your children or your boss or whoever.

 

6. It is in my best interests to keep your info private and secure, my reputation and business is on the line.

 

 

All of which is to say, give us the info we ask for, or move along, but quit whining about it. *drops mic*

[Eric Northman 16522]

Nicely put Berlin. Extortion is a losers game and I seriously doubt anyone in this industry would try it. I expect it's mostly in the movies and even then, it would be in cases where someone is specifically targeted because of who they are or what they do.

 

I especially like the bit about getting caught. Let's be real...how many guys get caught because of something the lady did? Or was it because of their own stupidity leaving a text on their phone or not using a burner or some such thing?

[Kate von Katz 49953]

Oh Berlin, this is why I admire you so much! Callin' it as it is.

 

I'm 100% with Berlin on this. Sorry guys, but she's bang-on: you just aren't important enough to be a target for any extortion or hacking. We don't give a crap about your profile or status in society, we give a damn about our own safety and how you conduct yourself while you are with us. You can be a cash-strapped student who saved up for two months to visit us, or a wealthy executive and you'll get the exact same treatment and will be held accountable to meet the same guidelines and expectations each of us lays out for our clients to abide by. It's not about you. Truly, we don't care enough one way or the other about you beyond ascertaining if you will be a gentlemen during our time together. It's about us making sure we feel safe and whatever precautions we put in place to create that feeling of safety.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

Nicely put Berlin. Extortion is a losers game and I seriously doubt anyone in this industry would try it. I expect it's mostly in the movies and even then, it would be in cases where someone is specifically targeted because of who they are or what they do.

Extortion would not happen from an established provider who cares about her name, brand, reputation and about all the hard work she has invested over time to get where she is. Doing so (extortion) would be committing business suicide, plain and simple.

[Genevieve Marceau 68000]

Eric Northman

I totally emphasize with you. I get that it's much more dangerous and scary to be a woman in many contexts. I have a huge amount of respect for the women who choose this profession in spite of the risks.

 

I'm not trying to minimize or marginalize your experience or your need to be safe. My problem was with this:

 

 

This statement certainly seemed misandrist to me and made me feel like men were being painted with a particularly broad brush. I get that it probably wasn't your intent but we 'clients' are certainly subject to a lot of stigma. In some ways, ours is worse.

Genevieve Marceau

This world is full of Bradley Barton. He is not an exception. Now before I hear someone wining that not all men are the same, let me tell you something: If "losing" the business of a hundreds clients gives us the chance to avoid only ONE Bradley Barton, we win big time. There is no lost here.

Translation: A hundred clients vs one criminal = 1%. Which means that I still consider 99% of clients are safe and trustworthy. Yet, I accept to lose their business if it saves me from one violent individual. S'all I am saying.

 

Again, I still don't get where is the misandry in that, nor where I use a broad brush to paint the situation. Unless that you consider 1% an unreasonably boasted number?

[Eric Northman 16522]

We're splitting hairs here and I think we should probably put this argument to bed. Yes, I do think 1% is a very high estimate for the number of men that are dangerous violent psychopaths but that's neither here nor there. As I said, your screening methods are up to you and if some dude don't like them, then too bad for him.

 

Now if we wanted to have an interesting debate, we could discuss the efficacy of asking for real names. Is there any evidence to suggest that it's effective? Is there any reasonable way to know if someone actually gave their real name short of asking for ID at the door? Somehow I suspect that the host of other screening methods are far more effective. Things like polite communication, respecting of rules and generally 'not giving off a creepy vibe' style gut feelings, etc. The problem is, there's no real way to know if your methods are effective one way or another because what you think is good screening may just be good luck in not having hit the 'jackpot' of running into one of the rare monsters out there.

 

In any event, that would be getting off topic. Please ladies, stay safe and do whatever you need to in order to avoid trouble.

[roamingguy 300292]

People (men and women alike) routinely give their personal information to all sorts of businesses on a regular basis...such as banks, cable companies, internet service providers, phone companies (I still get contacted by Bell after being finished with them eight years ago), etc etc etc. Do you know the background of each and every employee that works for them? Yet that information is given freely, and its even more information than a lady asks for.

But when it comes to seeing a lady a man wants to see, and he is the one who contacted her, all of a sudden it's a big deal to provide your real name.

No, I don't understand the hesitation. And when I embarked on this lifestyle, my career was in LE, and my bosses would have frowned on me seeing professional companions. Also, living in smalltown Ontario, if someone heard I was seeing companions, it wouldn't take long for most of the town to know I was seeing companions

My employers never knew, and the town I live in doesn't know I see companions

Ladies I've found, are far more discrete and honest than some businesses I've had to give information too.

 

RG

[50 Shades Raven 31380]

I replied on here before with this issue, but I really agree with how Berlin put this!

I'm going to be blunt and I'm sure quite a few of you will get your jockeys in a bunch, but it needs to be said.

 

1. No one cares who you are. The majority of you are not high-profile enough to matter.

Most guys are average blue collar workers, would not be worth even thinking about extorting them. Even if you are high profile, what would be the point?

 

2. The paranoia around us getting hacked or your info leaked because we lost our phone or some other ridiculous scenario you come up with to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions (eg. contacting s ex workers) is so entitled to me. Has an escort ever been hacked in the history of the internet? NOPE.

My phone, like every other providers, is going to have hundreds of phone numbers on it, from the florist to my dentist to the guy who just called! If my phone was lost/stolen, getting it hacked just so that someone can call you and ask if you are seeing a provider? Likelyhood of THAT happening is slim to nil!

 

3. You can't have it both ways; you can't expect us to provide high level customer service like remembering little details about your life, interests, etc and not expect us to keep info.

I like a name so I know how to address you! If you want me to know little details of your life so our time together is a little more special for you, then of course I'm going to keep some info on you

 

4. If you think we're going to extort your or some other malicious action, you need to seriously re-evaluate how you think about s ex workers and your participation in this industry.

I so enjoyed how Gabriella put this, for me to extort you, based on the info I may have, would be business suicide! We are not in this to gain extortion availability, we are here to give you pleasure, because you ask for that of us!

 

5. Your privacy, your personal life, your marriage--none of that trumps my safety. My life is on the line when I invite men into my space. It is not my responsibility to make sure that your wife doesn't find out, or your children or your boss or whoever.

It is YOUR responsibility to make sure your significant other doesn't find out, not mine! I do my utmost, as all reputable ladies do, to keep discretion. If you leave my call or text or your phone, that is your problem to deal with. I just say it must have been a wrong number should anyone ever call me on it!

 

6. It is in my best interests to keep your info private and secure, my reputation and business is on the line.

Agree here totally. I lock my phone at all times, and I am the only one with access to my laptop, tablet, desktop, all of which are locked unless I am actually on them at the time. What would be the point of extorting a guy? What am I going to gain out of that other than losing my business and reputation? Nothing!

 

All of which is to say, give us the info we ask for, or move along, but quit whining about it. *drops mic*

Storms off stage furious!

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

Now if we wanted to have an interesting debate, we could discuss the efficacy of asking for real names. Is there any evidence to suggest that it's effective? Is there any reasonable way to know if someone actually gave their real name short of asking for ID at the door? Somehow I suspect that the host of other screening methods are far more effective. Things like polite communication, respecting of rules and generally 'not giving off a creepy vibe' style gut feelings, etc. The problem is, there's no real way to know if your methods are effective one way or another because what you think is good screening may just be good luck in not having hit the 'jackpot' of running into one of the rare monsters out there.

 

Eric, with all due respect, you can guesstimate, assume, analyze, deduct all you want but the fact remains that you are not an SP and have no clue about the effectiveness of our screening methods, and what IS or is not, or what could be, or not, more effective, as a client of SPs.

 

We screen and ask for real names because it HAS proven to be effective. We don't just go through all the trouble of screening and having those policies just because it looks good on a website.

 

I can tell you from personal experience that asking for real names, aside from other information, HAS saved me from a few potential bad dates.

 

Ladies know what is best for them, what works for them, know how to screen and do many other things... and I think clients should stay out of their business no matter how much they think they know about the industry and no matter how long they have been a "hobbyist".